ECT Sanctification, the cost that must paid.

[Jerry Shugart]

Further Jerry, are you pressing onto perfection as Paul States in Philippians 3, being transformed from Glory to Glory by God, or are you deliberately sinning, because you think there is nothing that can be done about sin, discounting the power, and fruit of God in the life of those connected to Christ? You mentioned 1 John. Great! If you sin confess, but don't be deceived ' those that hate are in darkness' (1 John).

I never said that nothing can be done about sinning.

You are blind because you cannot see the difference between one's "standing" and one's "walk."

Do you actually think that this refers to the Christian's "walk"?:

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph.1: 5-6).​

Since you cannot even understand the difference between one's standing "in Christ" and one's "walk" you just refuse to believe what is written here in "bold":

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.4:14).​

Since you deny my interpretation of the meaning of this verse then you must think that it has another meaning. Please give me your interpretation of what is said there.

 

[Nick M]

Is that how Abraham proved his faith.

Romans 10

10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Not while circumcised, as Paul explained.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

I never said that nothing can be done about sinning.

You are blind because you cannot see the difference between one's "standing" and one's "walk."

Do you actually think that this refers to the Christian's "walk"?:

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph.1: 5-6).​

Since you cannot even understand the difference between one's standing "in Christ" and one's "walk" you just refuse to believe what is written here in "bold":

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.4:14).​

Since you deny my interpretation of the meaning of this verse then you must think that it has another meaning. Please give me your interpretation of what is said there.

I've already answered you. You want to hold the legal standing as the end all. Just as so many have done to now justify their sin. Standing gives you the Spirit. Do not be deceived. God will not be mocked. We reap what we sow. Ignore this and you ignore God, not me.
"For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life." Galatians 6:8
This is the exactly the same point as Romans 6:22 and the good convictions of CR for starting this thread.

Do you deny this? If not we are in agreement.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I've already answered you.

No you didn't. Instead of addressing that verse you ran to another one to address. Here it my verse again:

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.10:14).

The Greek verb translated "he hath perfected" is in the "perfect" tense:

"The perfect tense in Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated" (The Blue Letter Bible).

The Christian has been "perfected FOREVEVER."

By the blood of the Lamb the Christian has been PERFECTED FOREVER and it has already happened and there is no need for it to be repeated.

You just deny that truth!

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

No you didn't. Instead of addressing that verse you ran to another one to address. Here it my verse again:

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.10:14).

The Greek verb translated "he hath perfected" is in the "perfect" tense:

"The perfect tense in Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated" (The Blue Letter Bible).

The Christian has been "perfected FOREVEVER."

By the blood of the Lamb the Christian has been PERFECTED FOREVER and it has already happened and there is no need for it to be repeated.

You just deny that truth!

Ok. Again "them that are sanctified". How does one become sanctified? Become a slave to God ; the fruit you get leads to sanctification (Romans 6:22).

We can't pick which verses to believe. How do they come together to teach us the truth? Your argument is going nowhere. Why teach people to have security in standing all the while they remain enslaved by Satan.

Do you really think Jesus will say to me, why did you tell people to obey me, to surrender to me?
I am gravely concerned for those who don't teach this.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Ok. Again "them that are sanctified". How does one become sanctified? Become a slave to God ; the fruit you get leads to sanctification (Romans 6:22).

All you do is IGNORE Hebrews 10:14 and go running to a different verses.

We can't pick which verses to believe.

That is exactly what you are doing because it is obvious that you do not believe what is written at Hebrews 10:14.

How do they come together to teach us the truth? Your argument is going nowhere.

I have already explained that Hebrews 10:4 is in regard to a Christian's "standing," "being risen with Christ" and the Christian's life is hid with Christ in God" (Col.3:1-3).

Romans 6:22 refers to the Christian's "walk."

Of course you just refuse to address what is said at Hebrews 10:14 because you are unable to tell the difference between the Christian's standing and the Christian's walk.

You refuse to believe that the Christian is 'perfected for ever" and that happen once and does not need to be repeated.

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.4:14).​

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

All you do is IGNORE Hebrews 10:14 and go running to a different verses.



That is exactly what you are doing because it is obvious that you do not believe what is written at Hebrews 10:14.



I have already explained that Hebrews 10:4 is in regard to a Christian's "standing," "being risen with Christ" and the Christian's [/I]life is hid with Christ in God"[/I] (Col.3:1-3).

Romans 6:22 refers to the Christian's "walk."

Of course you just refuse to address what is said at Hebrews 10:14 because you are unable to tell the difference between the Christian's standing and the Christian's walk.

You refuse to believe that the Christian is 'perfected for ever" and that happen once and does not need to be repeated.

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.4:14).​

You believe what you want so that you don't have to be a slave to God.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You believe what you want so that you don't have to be a slave to God.

You believe what you want but it is only those who "believe God" who will be saved. And you do not believe what is said at Hebrews 10:14.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

You believe what you want but it is only those who "believe God" who will be saved. And you do not believe what is said at Hebrews 10:14.

I believe every word He said, not just the ones that make things easy.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I believe every word He said, not just the ones that make things easy.

Then you must have finally come to your senses and now understand that those who have been sanctified by the blood are "perfected forever":

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.4:14).​

There can be no excuse for not believing this so I am glad to hear that finally you believe it.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

Then you must have finally come to your senses and now understand that those who have been sanctified by the blood are "perfected forever":

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.4:14).​

There can be no excuse for not believing this so I am glad to hear that finally you believe it.

Why won't you answer if you have to become a slave to God?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Why won't you answer if you have to become a slave to God?

I never denied that we are to keep our selves holy in our "walk."

But the following verse does not refer to our walk but instead it is in regard to our "standing," being raised to heavenly places together with Christ:

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.10:14).​

Instead of trying to understand what is said there you just deny what is said! Your preconceived ideas get in your way of actually learning the truth revealed at Hebrews 10:14.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

I never denied that we are to keep our selves holy in our "walk."

But the following verse does not refer to our walk but instead it is in regard to our "standing," being raised to heavenly places together with Christ:

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.10:14).​

Instead of trying to understand what is said there you just deny what is said! Your preconceived ideas get in your way of actually learning the truth revealed at Hebrews 10:14.

You mean my ideas of walking away from Him like I did. I wouldn't suggest it for anyone for their own good here or the afterlife. Blessings Jerry.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You mean my ideas of walking away from Him like I did. I wouldn't suggest it for anyone for their own good here or the afterlife. Blessings Jerry.

What I am talking about is your refusal to believe what is written here:

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.10:14).​

In fact, you will not even talk about it and all you do is run and hide from it. Of what are you afraid?

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

What I am talking about is your refusal to believe what is written here:

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.10:14).​

In fact, you will not even talk about it and all you do is run and hide from it. Of what are you afraid?

I've talked about backed it up with scripture. As I said, it's either "being sanctified' which indicates process or "are sanctified" which indicates the completed work of Christ in a repentant believer.

You "work out your salvation in fear and trembling" and I will do the same.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I've talked about backed it up with scripture. As I said, it's either "being sanctified' which indicates process or "are sanctified" which indicates the completed work of Christ in a repentant believer.

All you did was ignore the verse and ran to another one!

Why do you not believe that those who have been sanctified by the Lord's death are "perfected forever"?

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.10:14).​

You "work out your salvation in fear and trembling" and I will do the same.

Those of us with true faith know that we are saved by grace through faith (Ro.4:16).

And if it is of grace then it is not according to "works":

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:4).​

You obviously do not know what being saved on the principle of grace means so I find that it is impossible that you have ever believed "the gospel of grace."

That is just another thing that you just flat out refuse to believe.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

All you did was ignore the verse and ran to another one!

Why do you not believe that those who have been sanctified by the Lord's death are "perfected forever"?

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.10:14).​

Those of us with true faith know that we are saved by grace through faith (Ro.4:16).

And if it is of grace then it is not according to "works":

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:4).​

You obviously do not know what being saved on the principle of grace means so I find that it is impossible that you have ever believed "the gospel of grace."

That is just another thing that you just flat out refuse to believe.

No one is reconciled to God other than by grace, no one is forgiven their sins than by grace, no one recievie the Holy Spirit than by grace. No one deserves one drop of blood to be shed for them. All this grace, which is enormous, can not be overstated! The whole point is to move us to transform us to humble us, to make creation in His image, made to love the agape way. I know salvation is through grace there is no other way! What we disagree on is what this grace looks like in us. And the point of this grace in us. He will not be mocked. I don't recommend you standing on your standing and not "sowing to please the Holy Spirit" (Galatians 6:8).