Real Science Friday: Origin of Limestone with Walt Brown

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Jefferson

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RSF: Origin of Limestone with Walt Brown

This is the show from Friday March 11th, 2011.

SUMMARY:

* Limestone Explained by Global Catastrophe: On today's episode of Real Science Friday Bob Enyart and Walt Brown discuss the difference between organic and inorganic limestone. Confirming that many massive deposits are not made up of organic limestone rebuts the typical shallow sea formation theory. Organic limestone forms from the remains of coral, oysters, crabs, etc., and from certain algae in both shallow and deep seas like like at Normandy, France and the White Cliffs of Dover in England. Enormous inorganic limestone deposits exist around the world including at the Grand Canyon and help to discredit claimed old ages.

* Why Most Limestone Deposits Are Not Organic:
- living processes organize crystals uniformly
- force needed to break shells increases exponentially
- visually see that most grains are not from sea life
- would have poisoned the biosphere by releasing 60,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 grams of carbon
- massive limestone deposits don't only exist where corals, etc., mostly live, within 30 degrees of the equator

* Post-show note on Japan Earthquake & Tsunami: See the BEL Earthquake Warning Policy at our Real Science Friday program on earthquakes, which arose from Bob's debate with a leading geophysicist. Confidence in geological risk assessment is underserved unless the geologist can account for major features of the earth's crustal history including by explaining:
- Why are there 40,000 volcanoes in the Pacific rather than in the Atlantic?
- Why are so many ocean trenches in the Pacific and not in the Atlantic?
- Why does the center of the Pacific trenches lie opposite of the Mid-Atlantic ridge?

* To Help the Japan Quake Victims: BEL recommends considering a gift through Samaritan's Purse.

* Today's Resource: Have you browsed through our Science Department in the KGOV Store? Check out especially Walt Brown's
In the Beginning and Bob's interviews with this great scientist in Walt Brown Week! You'll also love Dr. Guillermo Gonzalez' Privileged Planet (clip), and Illustra Media's Unlocking the Mystery of Life You can consider our BEL Science Pack; Bob Enyart's Age of the Earth Debate; Bob's debate about Junk DNA with famous evolutionist Dr. Eugenie Scott; And the superb kids' radio programming, Jonathan Park: The Adventure Begins! And Bob strongly recommends that you subscribe to CMI's tremendous Creation magazine!

* Special Editions of Real Science Friday:
- BEL's famous List of Not-So-Old Things
- Bob's debate with Christian Darwinist British author James Hannam
- PZ Myers blogs against Real Science Friday so Bob hits back with the Trochlea Challenge
- Waiting for Darwin's Other Shoe: Evolution mag's cover story Darwin Was Wrong on the Tree of Life
- Microbiologist in Studio: Bob talks with the Creation Research Society Quarterly editor about new genetic findings
- Caterpillar Kills Atheism: describe how a bug could evolve to liquefy itself and then build itself into a flying creature
- And see RSF Offer of $2,000 to get 16 letters of the alphabet in their correct places; $500 pd in 1998; $1,500 in 2010!

For our RSF Friends: in case you miss other BEL programs, here are some of the atheists Bob Enyart has debated:
- ABC's Reginald Finley, called The Infidel Guy, from ABC's Wife Swap program; 3-26-07;
- TheologyOnline's psychologist Zakath in a 10-round moderated written online debate, also available in soft cover;
- TOL's member who calls himself Fool; 3-28-06;
- John Henderson who wrote the book God.com 6-15-2006;
- Carlos Morales, Fox News, Huffington Post, etc. reports on U of Texas atheists Bible-turn in program, president of Atheist Agenda 7-14-10
- Freedom from Religion Foundation's Dan Barker (put the atheist sign near the Nativity at the capitol in Seattle) who was involved with the ministry of Kathryn Kuhlman, one of a group of so-called faith healers. (See a BEL listener who initially compared Bob to Benny Hinn until...) The BEL show was on 12-11-08;
- Michael Shermer, an editor with Scientific American and the Skeptic Society who in in this famous 73-second excerpt on BEL denied that the sun is a light, illustrating that it's tough debating atheists when they're hesitant to admit to even the most obvious common ground. 8-28-03
 

Jukia

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Has Dr. Brown published his limestone theory in any peer reviewed journal? If so, a citation please.
 

voltaire

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Brown is about half right. Here are the problems: Even inorganic limestone cannot form in the space of one year. I mean all that exists today. The crust was utterly destroyed in the noachian cataclysm. All of it was turned into a global slab of uncolidated mud. Limestone particles were mixed in with the rest of the sedimentary particles. During the archean, most of this mud was melted by massive volumes of magma from a super hot mantle. The melting of this mud formed granite plutons that rose to the top of the mud slab. This process continued through mo7t of the archean and gave us almost half of the continental mass we see today.
 

Stripe

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Even inorganic limestone cannot form in the space of one year. I mean all that exists today.
Of course it could. All you need is enough water at the right temperature and pressure with the right chemicals. Unleash that on the Earth and, presto!
 

Bob Enyart

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Has Dr. Brown published his limestone theory in any peer reviewed journal? If so, a citation please.
Jukia, you know that the peer reviewed journals that you value have editorial policies that refuse creation articles from consideration.

Walt's written briefly about this difficulty, and his long-standing well-publicized debate offer, at:

http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/FAQ429.html

Besides, now that scientists have excavated a T-rex with soft-tissue, and a hadrosaur with blood vessels and connective tissue, and a supposedly 155-million year old squid fossil with liquid ink (not dehydrated), etc., etc., don't you think it's worth taking an open-minded look at both sides of the age of the earth issue?

050324_trex_softtissue_hlg10a.hlarge.jpg


Jukia, the evidence will continue to grow...
 

Jukia

New member
Jukia, you know that the peer reviewed journals that you value have editorial policies that refuse creation articles from consideration.

Peer reviewed journals expect to have papers with accurate data in them.
Dr. Brown's inability to publish in the scientific literature has less to do with his creationist position than the fact that his theory is total nonsense.
Science deals in truth, science at the highest levels can be pretty cutthroat. Dr. Brown is unable to deal with that.
If his "theory" had any validity he would be able to publish. It does not so he cannot.
He lets you, Stripe and others whine about how unfair things are.
 

Bob Enyart

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If his "theory" had any validity he would be able to publish.
Jukia, could you name any leading peer reviewed scientific publication that would publish a paper claiming evidence against evolution and for creation, let's say that was written by Nobel-prize winning Richard Smalley, who co-discovered buckeyballs?

-Bob Enyart
 

DavisBJ

New member
Jukia, could you name any leading peer reviewed scientific publication that would publish a paper claiming evidence against evolution and for creation…
How would I recognize a peer-reviewed paper that claimed evidence for creation? Does it have to say “This confirms what the Bible says about a recent creation?” Or would it be sufficient to say something like “Mitochondrial Eve might have been much more recent than previously thought?” (Like you mention was published in Science - a peer reviewed journal - in 1998).
 

fool

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Jukia, could you name any leading peer reviewed scientific publication that would publish a paper claiming evidence against evolution and for creation, let's say that was written by Nobel-prize winning Richard Smalley, who co-discovered buckeyballs?

-Bob Enyart


From here;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fullerene
"It’s possible that buckyballs from outer space provided seeds for life on Earth
:think:
 

Stripe

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I doubt that Yorzhik formed his idea out of thin air.

I wasn't talking about Y's opinion. :)

Regardless, this is for Jukia who has a long history of pretending to be conversant on things science, but who never adds anything to an actual conversation about science.
 

DavisBJ

New member
I wasn't talking about Y's opinion. :)
If Y's opinion is based on credible evidence, then it should be as admissible as any other.
Regardless, this is for Jukia who has a long history of pretending to be conversant on things science, but who never adds anything to an actual conversation about science.
I realize you prefer to go after Jukia personally as opposed to pursuing the more important question of whether or not Walt Brown does have weaknesses in some of what he says. You do what you are best at and have at Jukia, and meantime I will wait and see if anyone will respond to the Mammoth question.
 
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