Real Science Friday: Good Mutations Occurring On Demand

Stripe

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RSF: Good Mutations Occurring On Demand.

This is the show from Friday, March 9th, 2012.

SUMMARY:

* Blyth Institute Research on Mutation By Design: Bob Enyart interviews Jonathan Bartlett, the layman who founded the Blyth Institute (.org) after spending years researching the nature of mutations to understand the genetic disease that tragically took the lives of his two young children. It turns out that while many mutations are random and apparently neutral or often harmful, our body itself intentionally induces a large percentage of mutations and targets them often at miniscule segments of the DNA with beneficial and needed results.

* Frequent Beneficial Targeted Antibody Mutations: The antibodies in our white blood cells have millions of different designs that enable them to attach to and destroy millions of different kinds of germs. When a brand new germ enters the body, we often need a brand new kind of antibody. To get this "custom" antibody, so to speak, a small section of the DNA would have to be changed, mutated, to attack this the new germ. But of the three billion base pairs in human DNA, new antibodies would appear only if a mutation happened in a tiny section of 600 base pairs. This "variable region" codes only for the part of the antibody that attaches to the germ. Thankfully, that specific part of our DNA has frequent mutations, at a rate far more than the average. And the neighboring antibody segment also has 600 base pairs (which are like rungs on the DNA ladder). That "constant region" forms the other half of the antibody. We DO NOT want that part mutated, because mutations there would likely harm the immune system. But wonderfully, the mutations DO occur very frequently in variable region, where they tend to be beneficial, and NOT in the constant region, where some might be neutral but where most would likely be harmful or even lethal.

* Evolutionists Deny Virtual Tautology: Many evolutionists cannot admit the obvious about all this, that: because there is a much higher incidence of mutations occurring where they are needed, therefore this is happening, not by random chance, but intentionally. By design. Yet, even though this is virtually a tautology, they deny it. This high-frequency mutating at a targeted miniscule region of DNA cannot be happening randomly, as neo-Darwinism would suggest. For, if all that mutation were random, it would be happening throughout the DNA molecule. But this intensity of mutation is happening just where it's most needed, and that is the opposite of random. Yet, many atheists cannot acknowledge this, because fear stops them: the fear of seeing evidence for the Designer.

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alwight

New member
* Evolutionists Deny Virtual Tautology: Many evolutionists cannot admit the obvious about all this, that: because there is a much higher incidence of mutations occurring where they are needed, therefore this is happening, not by random chance, but intentionally. By design. Yet, even though this is virtually a tautology, they deny it. This high-frequency mutating at a targeted miniscule region of DNA cannot be happening randomly, as neo-Darwinism would suggest. For, if all that mutation were random, it would be happening throughout the DNA molecule. But this intensity of mutation is happening just where it's most needed, and that is the opposite of random. Yet, many atheists cannot acknowledge this, because fear stops them: the fear of seeing evidence for the Designer.
Surely the only intent here is not to honestly research a better understanding of genetics but to pre-conclude that something is so unexplainable by the ToE or which is so irreducibly complex that it requires a Goddidit an intelligent designer. :rolleyes:
 

Flipper

New member
Oh I see, now it is possible for mutations to be beneficial and apparently able to add new information?

Hey, remember when it was creationist doctrine that mutations could never, ever be able to do either of those things? It doesn't seem so long ago.

Also, why is this even a challenge for evolution? Hasn't the idea of highly conserved sequences been a part of evolutionary genetics for forty years or so? Nice to see you guys finally catching up with the Real Science.
 

Flipper

New member
Why is it surprising that sites able to sustain higher mutation rates that could have benefits to the host organism similar to the benefits incurred by the invading pathogens, should not be selected for? Isn't that almost exactly what you'd expect to see as a perfect example of natural selection?
 

Stripe

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Surely the only intent here is not to honestly research a better understanding of genetics but to pre-conclude that something is so unexplainable by the ToE or which is so irreducibly complex that it requires a Goddidit an intelligent designer. :rolleyes:
What, alwight? :AMR:

Oh I see, now it is possible for mutations to be beneficial and apparently able to add new information?
No.

This would be you missing the point. Mutations aren't random and shouldn't rightly be called "mutations". They are a set of observations from parts of the system designed by God to regulate, maintain and adapt organisms. The term "change" would be better to use as there is a neutral implication.

Hey, remember when it was creationist doctrine that mutations could never, ever be able to do either of those things? It doesn't seem so long ago.
Or you could remember how many times I have said "mutation" is a loaded term and should not be used.

Also, why is this even a challenge for evolution? Hasn't the idea of highly conserved sequences been a part of evolutionary genetics for forty years or so? Nice to see you guys finally catching up with the Real Science.
Why is it surprising that sites able to sustain higher mutation rates that could have benefits to the host organism similar to the benefits incurred by the invading pathogens, should not be selected for? Isn't that almost exactly what you'd expect to see as a perfect example of natural selection?
Try watching the video. :rolleyes:
 

Flipper

New member
Call it whatever you like, I'll be off enjoying my victory lap in vindication all the times I've spent on here arguing that mutations can be beneficial.
 
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alwight

New member
Surely the only intent here is not to honestly research a better understanding of genetics but to pre-conclude that something is so unexplainable by the ToE or which is so irreducibly complex that it requires a Goddidit an intelligent designer. :rolleyes:
What, alwight? :AMR:
Fell on stony ground did it? Oh well never mind then, if this doesn't do it.
My underlying suggestion was that an intelligent designer in this case perhaps was a somewhat premature conclusion at best, or more likely a creationist pre-conclusion imo, but not really something that you'd ever accept I suppose Stripe.
 

Stripe

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Call it whatever you like, I'll be off enjoying my victory lap in vindication all the times I've spent on here arguing that mutations can be beneficial.

Start running. :)
 

Frayed Knot

New member
Mutations aren't random and shouldn't rightly be called "mutations". They are a set of observations from parts of the system designed by God to regulate, maintain and adapt organisms.

Hey, you're heading towards a position of theistic evolution, which for you is a giant step in the right direction. Congratulations.

Pretty soon you'll be agreeing with Ken Miller and Francis Collins. I disagree with them on a lot of issues, but at least they don't have the completely delusional belief that the Earth is only 6000 years old.
 

Jukia

New member
This would be you missing the point. Mutations aren't random and shouldn't rightly be called "mutations". They are a set of observations from parts of the system designed by God to regulate, maintain and adapt organisms. The term "change" would be better to use as there is a neutral implication.

So does your god make specific mutations as time goes along or has he stacked the deck so that, for example, bacteria or virus mutate--sorry, change--- and thereby gain resistence to antibiotics or antivirals? Was this system not in place prior to THE FALL when things were "good"? Was it Adam's sin that caused your god to change things?
 

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
So does your god make specific mutations as time goes along or has he stacked the deck so that, for example, bacteria or virus mutate--sorry, change--- and thereby gain resistence to antibiotics or antivirals? Was this system not in place prior to THE FALL when things were "good"? Was it Adam's sin that caused your god to change things?
:mock: Jokia.
 

Stripe

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Can't answer, huh? Color me surprised. Stripe makes claims and then hides.
Did you listen to the show, Jokia. All the information you need is in there. :thumb:

Mutations aren't random and shouldn't rightly be called "mutations". They are a set of observations from parts of the system designed by God to regulate, maintain and adapt organisms. The term "change" would be better to use as there is a neutral implication.
 

Jukia

New member
Did you listen to the show, Jokia. All the information you need is in there. :thumb:

Mutations aren't random and shouldn't rightly be called "mutations". They are a set of observations from parts of the system designed by God to regulate, maintain and adapt organisms. The term "change" would be better to use as there is a neutral implication.

Are any mutations random? Or have they all been planned by your god?
 

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Are any mutations random?

Chemistry works according to knowable and predictable principles. It is the cry of the ignorant that insists upon a process being random.
 

Jukia

New member
Chemistry works according to knowable and predictable principles. It is the cry of the ignorant that insists upon a process being random.

How about answering the question. Are any mutations random? Yes, or no?

I take from your answer above that your response is "No" but I want to make sure.
 

Frayed Knot

New member
I did listen to the show, and my take is that these guys think that "random" mutations would be uniformly distributed across the genome. The fact that they're not is somehow proof of God.

Don't ask me how they think they get from the first to the second, or why they think that mutations happening stochastically would mean that they're uniformly distributed. It's that creationist logic again, just like the fundamental misunderstanding that complexity implies design.
 
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