ECT "PISTEUO", the secret of the universe....

[Cross Reference]

RE "Passion of Christ":

What should trouble you, as it doesn't seem to, is that you can't see the LOVE of God equated with the flesh of Jesus demonstrated on that cross and that you can't even bother to consider it because of your warped religous bent. Shame on you.

 

[Danoh]

Thanks for sharing the insight on some of your personal side . Quite refreshing . I think we could possibly have a discussion about Faith if we left out the personal attacks or ribbing . I won't mention it again , but i have seen a change in you , not sure why , but it could open a door to something special ...

Not really a "change."

Rather, a return.

Long before there was even a TOL, I had well understood "the Grace Life."

Only to allow myself to throw just about all of it out the window, shortly after I began to post on a forum prior to this one, which I then only waxed worse and worse in, for a time, on here, the following being what it is...

1 Corinthians 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

Eventually, I simply made the decision to break away from that and return to that life in the Believer that ONLY a CONSISTENT focus on the FACT of the following allows...

In memory of Rom. 5: 6-8 - in each our stead.

THAT is where I now look over at you from.

Where I USE TO look at all things and all people from, lost or saved.

And here's the thing - I learned all that long ago, long before I ever heard of your "mis-translation" assertion.

Because these issues are not about one word, but about an entire Doctrine, Teaching, or Instruction in Righteousness THIS SIDE OF THE CROSS, that THEN determines FROM WITHIN said Instruction, what any one word and or phrase, is actually going on about.

As with any "culture" the language of the life of Christ in the Believer, is an ever living, breathing, dynamic language, not confined to one definition or another, in a dictionary somewhere.

Sort of like a moment with an old High School teacher of mine.

We were talking about this kind of thing one day, when he went off into a string of words and phrases used by his generation back when he had been in High School.

Not a word of made even a lick of sense to any of us. :chuckle:

Because all that had had to do with that use of language that had been the use of it within his generation's specific sub-culture.

Well, the language of the Grace Life - of "life IN Christ Jesus" - is no different.

It is the language of its own culture - of that "life in Christ Jesus."

Given that fact "all I need for Christmas is" the fact of 2 Timothy 3:16,17. :thumb:

Studied out within itself, and believed in and walked in...

In memory of Rom. 5: 6-8 - in each our stead.

 

[Cross Reference]

Huh??

 

[Danoh]

Huh??

Its all on that video on my Looking Ahead thread.

I ran across it about two hours ago, listened to the whole thing and found it not only aligns with much of what I wrote hereinabove on "the Grace Life" but goes far more into it than I did.

Rom. 5: 6-8 - in each our stead.

 

[Cross Reference]

In memory of Rom. 5: 6-8 - in each our stead.

I understand. However, what did Jesus accomplish in "our stead"; what we could not do for ourselves and maybe why we could not do it?

Spell it out because I am slow to learn . .

 

[Danoh]

I understand. However, what did Jesus accomplish in "our stead"; what we could not do for ourselves and maybe why we could not do it?

Spell it out because I am slow to learn . .

Regarding Rom. 5: 6-8, I end with that from my understanding through those passages and its various sister passages - of WHAT is the very BASIS of the Believer's hope...

That COMPLETE or FINISHED work of the Cross...

THAT DISTINCTION...

THIS here...

Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

THAT was carried out in OUR stead - how that "while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

You might say you already know. Which is fine. But whether you know that or not, or hold to that or not, is not why I now post it here, in my reply to you.

Rather, I am doing so in reply to your having asked what it is I believe I am going on about.

While, why I often end my posts with a "nevetheless, Romans 5: 6-8 - in each our stead" - what's behind my doing so is merely my having decided to return by faith to where I used to look accross at others from (on the other side of the many sided table that is both people in general, but just as often, Believers and or Bible students as well).

It struck me years ago that I would do well to simply view all things and others from the same perspective those passages assert God views each of us through, during this Mystery Age.

You know those scenes in action movies where the hero is depicted walking forward towards the camera unfazed by various, massive explosions going off behind him?

Well, this kind of being unfazed by what life and others throw at one, is another part of what Romans 5 is going on about there.

So, I end my posts in the way I do, in hopes of encouraging that kind of a victorious focus in others.

A third part of that is what it's focus allows in me - it allows Christ to be my DECIDED focus.

I mean, truth be told, one is as likely to encounter various slings and arrows from Believers as from non-Believers.

So there is that.

And the means to solving for that is two-fold.

Both also based in those passages.

One, what we each choose to focus on when met with ignorance and duplicity from others.

Two, what we each choose to focus on when tempted either with duplicity from within, and or to lash out in kind.

And I say that we can each just look at all this from a "you know what, this stupidity is exactly what killed my Saviour - exactly what He died for that we are each ever weak in - thank God, for Romans 5:6-8 - in each our stead."

That allows for peace during all sorts of injustices, biased rulings against one, and so on - all of which the Apostle Paul had had to contend with and that he wrote about, as to what to focus on throughout.

This focus then allows that "peace of God that passeth all understanding" to reign - IN and TO - HIS Glory...ALONE!

Which is what the following is all about, how it works, and how...it is tapped into...

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

The perspective of those two video studies I recently started new threads with ("Looking to the New Year" and "Choosing to Be Chosen") are both largely this same perspective.

Which is why I posted them; out of my agreement with same.

Rom. 5: 6-8 - in each our stead.

 

[Cross Reference]

Do you you believe this is an understanding made clear to you, you might have embraced:


"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent". John 17:3 (KJV)

 

[Cross Reference]

I believe this by Chambers is what Faither has been saying but without the Spiritual "How to's" of it all thus making it a thing of works:


December 28th . "My Utmost for His Highest"

Continuous conversion

"Except ye be converted, and become as little children.…" Matthew 18:3.

"These words of Our Lord are true of our initial conversion, but we have to be continuously converted all the days of our lives, continually to turn to God as children. If we trust to our wits instead of to God, we produce consequences for which God will hold us responsible. Immediately our bodies are brought into new conditions by the providence of God, we have to see our natural life obeys the dictates of the Spirit of God. Because we have done it once is no proof that we shall do it again. The relation of the natural to the spiritual is one of continuous conversion, and it is the one thing we object to. In every setting in which we are put, the Spirit of God remains unchanged and His salvation unaltered but we have to “put on the new man.” God holds us responsible every time we refuse to convert ourselves, our reason for refusing is wilful obstinacy. Our natural life must not rule, God must rule in us.

The hindrance in our spiritual life is that we will not be continually converted, there are ‘wadges’ of obstinacy where our pride spits at the throne of God and says—‘I won’t.’ We deify independence and wilfulness and call them by the wrong name. What God looks on as obstinate weakness, we call strength. There are whole tracts of our lives which have not yet been brought into subjection, and it can only be done by this continuous conversion. Slowly but surely we can claim the whole territory for the Spirit of God."

Oswald Chambers

 

[Faither]

The Greek word "pisteuo". Probably the most important word that we will ever hear as called out ones. I consider this word to be the "secret of the universe". Because one day, God will reveal the importance of "pisteuo," and everyone will know it was right there in front of us all the time.

I beat this drum of "pisteuo ", because without actively exercising "pisteuo", no one can have the relationship with Christ that the NT talks about. An indwelling Holy Spirit, being in Christ, having Gods nature flowing through us, the word of God being ours to look at like a mirror, the mind of Christ, to be able to have that continual praying without ceasing. Without "pisteuo," none of these things will come to pass.

With those things said, what exactly is "pisteuo?"

"Pisteuo" is the Greek word, a verb, that's corresponds with the Greek word, a noun, "pistis".

When pistis and pisteuo were translated into the English texts, Pistis is where we get our word
"faith", the noun, was no problem. But when the translators tried to find an English word for "pisteuo," there was none. Pisteuo is a verb, An act, based upon a belief, sustained by confidence. The specific act that the Greek word pisteuo needed to translate to English is, the vines: "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." The Strongs: "Pisteuo means not just to believe, but to be persuaded, to trust, to place confidence in, signifies reliance upon, not mere credence, hence it is translated "commit unto," "commit to ones trust,"Be commited unto".

Pisteuo is the word that describes, encompasses, and teaches us what NT saving Faith is. We should have had the words faither, faithing, and to faithe, for the translators to use when translating pisteuo into English. But only because they had no other choice, they had to go with believer, believing, and to believe. The word pisteuo and it's English mistranslations are used over 250 times in the NT. The words believer, believing, and to believe are only one third of what Nt saving Faith is. And building an understanding on any of these three words is not NT saving Faith.

If your new or a guest reading this thread and have a question , please ask it , your path could depend on it .

 

[Faither]

The Greek word "pisteuo". Probably the most important word that we will ever hear as called out ones. I consider this word to be the "secret of the universe". Because one day, God will reveal the importance of "pisteuo," and everyone will know it was right there in front of us all the time.

I beat this drum of "pisteuo ", because without actively exercising "pisteuo", no one can have the relationship with Christ that the NT talks about. An indwelling Holy Spirit, being in Christ, having Gods nature flowing through us, the word of God being ours to look at like a mirror, the mind of Christ, to be able to have that continual praying without ceasing. Without "pisteuo," none of these things will come to pass.

With those things said, what exactly is "pisteuo?"

"Pisteuo" is the Greek word, a verb, that's corresponds with the Greek word, a noun, "pistis".

When pistis and pisteuo were translated into the English texts, Pistis is where we get our word
"faith", the noun, was no problem. But when the translators tried to find an English word for "pisteuo," there was none. Pisteuo is a verb, An act, based upon a belief, sustained by confidence. The specific act that the Greek word pisteuo needed to translate to English is, the vines: "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." The Strongs: "Pisteuo means not just to believe, but to be persuaded, to trust, to place confidence in, signifies reliance upon, not mere credence, hence it is translated "commit unto," "commit to ones trust,"Be commited unto".

Pisteuo is the word that describes, encompasses, and teaches us what NT saving Faith is. We should have had the words faither, faithing, and to faithe, for the translators to use when translating pisteuo into English. But only because they had no other choice, they had to go with believer, believing, and to believe. The word pisteuo and it's English mistranslations are used over 250 times in the NT. The words believer, believing, and to believe are only one third of what Nt saving Faith is. And building an understanding on any of these three words is not NT saving Faith.

A prayer to apply pisteuo .

God , i offer myself to thee , to have with me and to build with me as thou wilt . Relieve me of the bondage of self , that i may better do thy will . Take away my difficulties , that victory over them may bear witness to those i would help of thy power , thy Love , and thy way of life . May i do thy will always .

Just like the priests that under penalty of death had to refill the oil and trim the wick (the Holy Spirit) in the temple each day . So do we also need to maintain Gods Holy Spirit in us daily with a daily surrender .

So saying this prayer each day is not vain repetition but growing in a deeper surrender to Christ . Christ is formed in our hearts by Faith .

 

[Cross Reference]

Christ is formed in our hearts by the testing of His faith in us. Does the enemy have anything in us by which he can accuse that would hinder His faith in us?

 

[Faither]

Ephesians 3:17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith ...

Christs Faith made him the first goer , we are to follow by and with our faith .

Pisteuo used 248 times is talking about our "faithing" , our surrender to God , just like Christ did.

 

[Danoh]

Ephesians 3:17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith ...

Christs Faith made him the first goer , we are to follow by and with our faith .

Pisteuo used 248 times is talking about our "faithing" , our surrender to God , just like Christ did.

Do yourself a favor.

Actually sit down with the Scripture and attempt to study out the surrendered life concept cleary taught, say, in Romans thru Philemon, in the many passages that do just that but that do not even employ any use of those two words you are forever going on about.

You are simply wrong.

The surrendered life concept is not about doing in order to be, rather, it is about being who God has made one in His Son.

It is an Identity concept, not a Behavioral one, as had been the case under the Law; given the Law's intent.

It is about choosing to walk in who one is in Christ, it is not about walking in order to be that.

Perhaps a carnal example (as Paul would say) will paint a better picture.

Some years ago, an individual I knew well, had BEEN an individual never concerened about his future.

Because that was who he WAS.

That was his Identity, Sense of self, or Self-concept.

His BEHAVIOR flowed from that - he did NOT have to work at BEING that, anymore than AN ALCOHOLIC has to work at BEING who he is.

One day, he got some girl he was seeing, pregnant.

I asked him what he was going to do, NOW that he WAS A FATHER.

NOW that THAT was NOW part of who he WAS.

I ran into him some 8 years later.

His WAS NOW a completely different PERSONALITY.

Ever CURIOUS about how all sorts things, this part of WHO I AM AUTOMATICALLY compelled me to ask him (verbal BEHAVIOR) about his great change IN WHO HE WAS.

He related that until he had FOUND HIMSELF "a Father" (Identity) he had never cared for being responsible (Behavior compelled by sense of Identity).

That after he FOUND HIMSELF " a Father" FROM THAT POINT FORWARD his EVERY decision was influenced by THAT.

Not once did he ever mention this "faithing" of yours.

Not once.

For even within Pauline Grace Christianity, your concept needs no home, nor has one.

Instead, the concept is exactly like that young man's experience.

The Believer gets in the Word rightly divided in light of this Mystery Age of UNmerited Grace towards us, IN Christ, learns in that Word WHO God HAS MADE him or her IN His Son, and simply walks IN said IDENTITY.

The rest takes care of itself.

You might do well to watch that video study I posted in my "Choosing to BE Chosen" thread.

It too goes into this concept.

Rom. 5: 6-8 towards you.

 

[Faither]

Do yourself a favor.

Actually sit down with the Scripture and attempt to study out the surrendered life concept cleary taught, say, in Romans thru Philemon, in the many passages that do just that but that do not even employ any use of those two words you are forever going on about.

You are simply wrong.

The surrendered life concept is not about doing in order to be, rather, it is about being who God has made one in His Son.

It is an Identity concept, not a Behavioral one, as had been the case under the Law; given the Law's intent.

It is about choosing to walk in who one is in Christ, it is not about walking in order to be that.

Perhaps a carnal example (as Paul would say) will paint a better picture.

Some years ago, an individual I knew well, had BEEN an individual never concerened about his future.

Because that was who he WAS.

That was his Identity, Sense of self, or Self-concept.

His BEHAVIOR flowed from that - he did NOT have to work at BEING that, anymore than AN ALCOHOLIC has to work at BEING who he is.

One day, he got some girl he was seeing, pregnant.

I asked him what he was going to do, NOW that he WAS A FATHER.

NOW that THAT was NOW part of who he WAS.

I ran into him some 8 years later.

His WAS NOW a completely different PERSONALITY.

Ever CURIOUS about how all sorts things, this part of WHO I AM AUTOMATICALLY compelled me to ask him (verbal BEHAVIOR) about his great change IN WHO HE WAS.

He related that until he had FOUND HIMSELF "a Father" (Identity) he had never cared for being responsible (Behavior compelled by sense of Identity).

That after he FOUND HIMSELF " a Father" FROM THAT POINT FORWARD his EVERY decision was influenced by THAT.

Not once did he ever mention this "faithing" of yours.

Not once.

For even within Pauline Grace Christianity, your concept needs no home, nor has one.

Instead, the concept is exactly like that young man's experience.

The Believer gets in the Word rightly divided in light of this Mystery Age of UNmerited Grace towards us, IN Christ, learns in that Word WHO God HAS MADE him or her IN His Son, and simply walks IN said IDENTITY.

The rest takes care of itself.

You might do well to watch that video study I posted in my "Choosing to BE Chosen" thread.

It too goes into this concept.

Rom. 5: 6-8 towards you.

The words believe , believer , and believing are mistranslations that's a fact .

The correct definition of pisteuo which is where those mistranslated words come from is , " A personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender .". That also is a fact .

This surrender Is something. We do , separate from the perfect surrender Christ did . Fact.

If a surrender is made with any expectation of something in return , that's not a surrender that's a business deal . Fact .

The mistranslation , the definition , the application , are all based on Basic understandings of the English, Greek . And also a correct and basic understanding of God's Word , not my opinion .

For you to build a case against these facts , you must and do deny those facts which contradicts your entire premise.

We've had this discussion before you and I . We are not going to find common ground . So please respect my God given right to try and serve Him the best I know how .

I know how you feel about my understandings . But I hope you know I am giving you and others here the most precious and valuable thing I possess on this Earth . Which in fact again , Christ specifically tells us not to do .

Please address any replies specifically towards the facts i've presented in this thread .

 

[Faither]

Another prayer to apply "pisteuo".

My creator , i am now willing that you should have all of me good and bad . I pray that you should now remove from me every single defect of character that stands in the way of my usefulness to you and my fellows . Grant me strength as i go out from here to do thy bidding , Amen .

 

[Cross Reference]

How sad and silly for one to mis-interpret the word, "Believe" just to make his pet doctrine fit his notions.

 

[Faither]

The Greek word "pisteuo". Probably the most important word that we will ever hear as called out ones. I consider this word to be the "secret of the universe". Because one day, God will reveal the importance of "pisteuo," and everyone will know it was right there in front of us all the time.

I beat this drum of "pisteuo ", because without actively exercising "pisteuo", no one can have the relationship with Christ that the NT talks about. An indwelling Holy Spirit, being in Christ, having Gods nature flowing through us, the word of God being ours to look at like a mirror, the mind of Christ, to be able to have that continual praying without ceasing. Without "pisteuo," none of these things will come to pass.

With those things said, what exactly is "pisteuo?"

"Pisteuo" is the Greek word, a verb, that's corresponds with the Greek word, a noun, "pistis".

When pistis and pisteuo were translated into the English texts, Pistis is where we get our word
"faith", the noun, was no problem. But when the translators tried to find an English word for "pisteuo," there was none. Pisteuo is a verb, An act, based upon a belief, sustained by confidence. The specific act that the Greek word pisteuo needed to translate to English is, the vines: "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." The Strongs: "Pisteuo means not just to believe, but to be persuaded, to trust, to place confidence in, signifies reliance upon, not mere credence, hence it is translated "commit unto," "commit to ones trust,"Be commited unto".

Pisteuo is the word that describes, encompasses, and teaches us what NT saving Faith is. We should have had the words faither, faithing, and to faithe, for the translators to use when translating pisteuo into English. But only because they had no other choice, they had to go with believer, believing, and to believe. The word pisteuo and it's English mistranslations are used over 250 times in the NT. The words believer, believing, and to believe are only one third of what Nt saving Faith is. And building an understanding on any of these three words is not NT saving Faith.

please keep your comments or replies focused on the OP . If there is something you don't agree with , replace it with a better understanding , not accusations .

Be specific .

 

[Cross Reference]

I believe I did that. That was my understanding based upon the understanding of the word "pisteou" being no different in definition than the word "believe". For one to say he believes is for him to announce his life style with evidence that testifies of it being the truth.

Ponder that as being the truth based upon the dictionaries.. . . unless your 'opinion' is the only truth, which I "believe" is the case against you. "Evidence" from me testifies of my "believing" that to be the truth about you.

 

[Faither]

I believe I did that. That was my understanding based upon the understanding of the word "pisteou" being no different in definition than the word "believe". For one to say he believes is for him to announce his life style with evidence that testifies of it being the truth.

Ponder that as being the truth based upon the dictionaries.. . . unless your 'opinion' is the only truth, which I "believe" is the case against you. "Evidence" from me testifies of my "believing" that to be the truth about you.

Your obsessed with personally attacking me . The facts i'm presenting are straight from other sources , not my opinion . I've tried to get past those attacks and the constant misrepresentaions , i'll try again .

You say the word "believe" is the same as the definition from the Vines which is " A personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender ."

In the strongs Greek dictionary , it defines "pisteuo" by saying , "pisteuo means "NOT" just to believe . In the strongs we see an attempt to shine a light on the fact that the words believe , believing , and believer , are not a correct definition of this word pisteuo .

Do you acknowledge this and agree with the strongs (not me) that pisteuo used 248 times in the NT "does "NOT" just mean to believe ?"

 

[Cross Reference]

Your obsessed with personally attacking me . The facts i'm presenting are straight from other sources , not my opinion . I've tried to get past those attacks and the constant misrepresentaions , i'll try again .

You say the word "believe" is the same as the definition from the Vines which is " A personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender ."

In the strongs Greek dictionary , it defines "pisteuo" by saying , "pisteuo means "NOT" just to believe . In the strongs we see an attempt to shine a light on the fact that the words believe , believing , and believer , are not a correct definition of this word pisteuo .

Do you acknowledge this and agree with the strongs (not me) that pisteuo used 248 times in the NT "does "NOT" just mean to believe ?"

Then cite your "other" sources.

I don't need strongs to understand believing is continual life style with evidence that reveals the life style entered into. There are too many "IF's" in scripture which spell it all out that no one needs to "monkey shine" around grabbing at words to make it all sound as revolutionary thinking to impress for conceited reasons..

Dwell on this:

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Colossians 1:21-23 (KJV)

Funny, I don't see the word "faithing" in any of that and yet the understanding of the issues is all there for our understanding.