PETER AND PAUL AND THE RESURRECTION AND SALVATION

clefty

New member
Hi and in Gal 2:11 when Peter came to Antioch , I ( PAUL ) resisted him ( PETER ) TO HIS FACE because he was having been CONDEMNED .

#2 In verse 12 , Peter was eating with GENTILES ,
hmmmm...


and was GRADUALLY WITHDRAWING and SEPARATING himself , being AFRAID of the ones from the CIRCUMCISION or m afraid of James and JEWS .

#3 Verse 14 , Peter , Since you , being a Jew , live like the GENTILES
does that sound like Peter was in a ‘kingdom of Israel” group? Socializing and MIXING...EATING with the goyim? Oy veh!

Being afraid of other Jews zealous for the law?

and not AFTER THE MANNER OF THE Jews
but but but Peter was in “the kingdom of Israel” group...is your claim

why do you COMPEL the Gentiles to ADOPT JEWISH CUSTOMS and RITES !
good question Paul...yeah Pete...why you compelling goyim to keep “Jewish” customs? That’s NOT For the BOC...LOL...or something...



#4 We see the Peter was NOT in the BODY OF CHRIST , PERIOD .
EXACTLY opposite...we see Peter NOT keeping the Jewish customs of your “suspended Kingdom of Israel”...LOL

Jews had come up with NEW LAWS not in OT of distancing themselves from goyim a growing issue as Jews went into diaspora and were influenced by Hellenization...Peter resorted to keeping those FAKE rules distancing himself from goyim to please the Jews coming from Jerusalem so Paul corrected that silly behavior...reminding Pete “you are on OUR side now”...


and never preached the DISPENSATION of the GRACE of God that was GIVEN to me ( PAUL ) FOR YOU , Eph 3:2
Already in Acts 2 at Pentecost it was Peter who preached “I will pour our of My Spirit on ALL flesh” You know Pete was quoting JOEL “And it shall come to pass that WHOEVER calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved”...You KNOW JOEL? Where ALL nations are gathered Joel 3:2 for judgement 12...well Pete knew it was that time...GRACE or punishment...

Peter DEMONSTRATES this GRACE by healing a lame man on Solomon’s Porch...the porch WHERE ALL could meet...even women...and TEACHES reminding the Jews it was ABOUT ALL they were to be a blessing...as per covenant with Abraham...”To you first” IMPLYING THERE IS NECESSARILY A SECOND Acts 3:26

Acts 4 continues their teaching THE PEOPLE...NOT JUST JEWS...and when the Rulers laid hands on them it was PETER again who proclaimed “Nor is salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among MEN by which we must be saved”...Acts 4:12...and NOT JUST JEWS...exactly what the rulers feared that THIS MESSAGE WOULD SPREAD...

Peter and companions return to their own to report the events and they with one accord lifted their voiced in prayer the Psalms 2 BATTLE CRY have you read that? Verse 8 To them THE NATIONS are inheritance the WHOLE WORLD their possession...but NOW here in Acts 4 it is a BATTLE CRY of GRACE...as they prayed to CONQUEST by healing signs and wonders through the NAME of Yahushua Your Holy Servent...verse 30...AND not only grace but GREAT GRACE was upon them all Acts 4:33

Peter concludes with “the Holy Spirit given to whom Yah has given to those who obey Him” Acts 5:32 Not JUST JEWS...

And they continued daily in the temple and in EVERY house...Acts 5:42 Not just jews...remember they were under ROMAN occupiers...

Please address Acts 6 when Hebrews vs Hellenists became an issue...THIS WOULD BE A PERFECT PLACE TO ANNOUNCE THE TWO SEPERATE BODIES...you know your “KINGDOM OF ISRAEL” VS. “BOC”

INSTEAD NOTHING...they chose men and kept the SAME MESSAGE and the WORD OF YAH...notice SINGULAR WORD NOT TWO WORDS...and disciples multiplied greatly...EVEN PRIESTS were OBEDIENT TO THE FAITH...Acts 6:7 imagine that...I guess since Sabbath and clean meat was done away with Priests HAD to switch sides? Oh wait...BOC was gentiles...

Stephen was chosen and Luke makes CLEAR that nonbelieving Jews wished to SLANDER him and stir up the people elders and scribes with EXACTLY YOUR CLAIM...that the BOC didnt need to worry about the Sabbath and NO to Ham as “Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered”...Acts 6:14...but Luke was CLEAR that slander was FALSE WITNESS as apparently Stephen did NOT teach ANOTHER WAY for the BOC because Yahushua had NOT destroyed the Law...THINK NOT! is what He instructed...and Paul DID TEACH “copy me as I copy Christ...” to the BOC...the irony...

And finally it was Peter healing among the Gentiles Acts 9 Cornelius 10 and to the gentiles 11

That Peter and Paul preached the same message is JUST more FAKE NEWS , just like today .

dan p
Peter NOT Paul: Acts 10:35 “But in every nation WHOEVER fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him” 43 “whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins” Acts 11:17 “If therefore Yah gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Yahushua who was I that I could withstand Yah?”

And then Paul started with his preaching of gifts and acceptance and belief...oh and then obedience...to do works befitting repentance...
 
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thborn

New member
As far as being born again, while people like to use this phrase for the church today, Biblicaly, this only applies to the believing remnant of Israel. Israel was born as a nation and they had to be born again by faith in Christ.

Sorry to take a while to get back to you. Could you say what Paul means when he speaks thinking of oneself as a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17)? And the "quickening" used in the King James Version? How does this differ from being born again? Is it similar, despite direly important differences? Or almost the same?

Also, can your view of the different gospels be combined with the predestination in Romans 8 and 9? If not, how do you read those chapters?
 

thborn

New member
Peter taught justification unto eternal life by believing on the name of Jesus, by believing he is Christ, the Son of God.

Paul taught justification unto eternal life by faith in his blood, in his death,burial,and resurrection as full payment for our sins. Paul taught all could be justified freely by grace as a gift.

Peter taught obedience to the commandments of Jesus and the law to be righteous to enter the kingdom on earth and reign with Christ at his coming.

Paul taught walking in the Spirit by knowing our position in Christ and good works for reward.

I agree that the gospel or dispensation of the gospel about believing in Christ's blood and death and ressurrection as payment for our sins, and putting our trust for that only in Christ, is what we must currently believe to be saved.

After examining in more depth what dispensationalists believe, I agree there is a difference in the preaching about salvation that occurred before Paul and that which occurred after Paul. I now see that one can’t ignore the patterns in Scripture. Before Paul one had to follow conditions such as repenting and believing. Paul revealed Christ’s dying for believers’ sins and saving grace and faith aside from all works. Nowadays those who are saved believe the latter in regards to the basis for salvation. (There does seem to be some disagreement on the web among dispensationalists…maybe just involving a small number of people, I don’t know…about exactly what one must believe about Christ in the current dispensation.)

I’m still trying to figure out if there is a difference regarding salvation between Peter and Paul’s preachings that runs all the way through Scripture. Did Peter eventually adopt Paul’s Gospel or was he lead by God to that dispensation pretty much? For example, parts of Peter’s letters sound to me like their talking to Israelites and other parts sound a lot like Paul's teachings. Such as these verses:
1 Peter 3:18. For Christ died for sins once and for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.
1 Peter 5:10 And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory with Christ…
2 Peter 1:10-11. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom or our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Please give me your opinion. I can see other arguments based on some of the surrounding verses. Maybe I'm taking it out of context.

Could you also let me know how 1 John fits with your views?
 

DougE

Well-known member
I agree that the gospel or dispensation of the gospel about believing in Christ's blood and death and ressurrection as payment for our sins, and putting our trust for that only in Christ, is what we must currently believe to be saved.

Yes! You have that right.
 

DougE

Well-known member
After examining in more depth what dispensationalists believe, I agree there is a difference in the preaching about salvation that occurred before Paul and that which occurred after Paul. I now see that one can’t ignore the patterns in Scripture. Before Paul one had to follow conditions such as repenting and believing.

Before Paul Israel was being offered the promised kingdom on earth, to reign with Christ for a thousand years as a kingdom of priests. To enter that kingdom they had to be righteous and keep the law. Jesus gave them the Spirit as seen in Acts 2 to give them power in the tribulation.
For eternal life they had to believe on his name....to believe he was the Christ the Son of God (John 20:31). To enter the kingdom they had to be obedient to the law.
 

DougE

Well-known member
Paul revealed Christ’s dying for believers’ sins and saving grace and faith aside from all works. Nowadays those who are saved believe the latter in regards to the basis for salvation. (There does seem to be some disagreement on the web among dispensationalists…maybe just involving a small number of people, I don’t know…about exactly what one must believe about Christ in the current dispensation.)

I hold to the Bible that says we are saved by grace through faith in Christ and his complete redemption. There is no such teacher that is right about everything. See what the Bible says.
 

DougE

Well-known member
I’m still trying to figure out if there is a difference regarding salvation between Peter and Paul’s preachings that runs all the way through Scripture. Did Peter eventually adopt Paul’s Gospel or was he lead by God to that dispensation pretty much? For example, parts of Peter’s letters sound to me like their talking to Israelites and other parts sound a lot like Paul's teachings. Such as these verses:
1 Peter 3:18. For Christ died for sins once and for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.
1 Peter 5:10 And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory with Christ…
2 Peter 1:10-11. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom or our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Please give me your opinion. I can see other arguments based on some of the surrounding verses. Maybe I'm taking it out of context.

I do not see Peter preaching the same gospel as Paul.
Parts of Peter do sound like Paul.
Let me say that both Peter and Paul preached the gospel of Christ. Peter preached Jesus as the Christ and the Son of God as did Paul. Peter preached grace....Jesus by grace redeemed Israel of the sins they committed under the first testament. The new covenant promised Israel was by grace. Paul was given the full revelation of the gospel of Christ....how the shed blood of Christ for the redemption of the sins of Israel under the old testament were forgiven and that this same blood was applied to us, the body of Christ, in this dispensation, to both Jew and Gentile.

1 Peter 3:18 Peter is saying that Christ died for the unjust. Israel was unjust. They failed to believe on Christ. They failed to believe the gospel of the kingdom which would have brought in the kingdom on earth. We can not read Paul into this and say Peter preached salvation for all.

1 Peter 5:10 Just because Peter mentions grace does not mean he is preaching the grace in Paul's gospel. The Jews would have to suffer in the tribulation, but by grace would be delivered.

2 Peter 1:10-11 Peter was telling the remnant of Israel that they had to remain steadfast, to endure til the end of the tribulation in order to enter the kingdom as can be seen in verse 11.
 

DougE

Well-known member
I agree that the gospel or dispensation of the gospel about believing in Christ's blood and death and ressurrection as payment for our sins, and putting our trust for that only in Christ, is what we must currently believe to be saved.

After examining in more depth what dispensationalists believe, I agree there is a difference in the preaching about salvation that occurred before Paul and that which occurred after Paul. I now see that one can’t ignore the patterns in Scripture. Before Paul one had to follow conditions such as repenting and believing. Paul revealed Christ’s dying for believers’ sins and saving grace and faith aside from all works. Nowadays those who are saved believe the latter in regards to the basis for salvation. (There does seem to be some disagreement on the web among dispensationalists…maybe just involving a small number of people, I don’t know…about exactly what one must believe about Christ in the current dispensation.)

I’m still trying to figure out if there is a difference regarding salvation between Peter and Paul’s preachings that runs all the way through Scripture. Did Peter eventually adopt Paul’s Gospel or was he lead by God to that dispensation pretty much? For example, parts of Peter’s letters sound to me like their talking to Israelites and other parts sound a lot like Paul's teachings. Such as these verses:
1 Peter 3:18. For Christ died for sins once and for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.
1 Peter 5:10 And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory with Christ…
2 Peter 1:10-11. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom or our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Please give me your opinion. I can see other arguments based on some of the surrounding verses. Maybe I'm taking it out of context.

Could you also let me know how 1 John fits with your views?

Could you also let me know how 1 John fits with your views?

1 John was written to the remnant of Israel in the last times of the tribulation as seen in 1 John 2:18.
Israel had to know who was the believing remnant and who were false brethren.
 

DougE

Well-known member
Sorry to take a while to get back to you. Could you say what Paul means when he speaks thinking of oneself as a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17)? And the "quickening" used in the King James Version? How does this differ from being born again? Is it similar, despite direly important differences? Or almost the same?

Also, can your view of the different gospels be combined with the predestination in Romans 8 and 9? If not, how do you read those chapters?

The new creature is the new identity in the body of Christ wherein there is neither Jew or Gentile.

Predestination in Romans 8 is simply God determining, according to his purpose, how we would be saved.

Romans 9 through 11 is all about Israel and the election of God by grace and not by works. It is all about the remnant of Israel and how Gentiles who believed the gospel back when the gospel of the kingdom was preached, were grafted into the remnant of Israel and how Israel would be saved.
 

thborn

New member
I do not see Peter preaching the same gospel as Paul.
Parts of Peter do sound like Paul.
Let me say that both Peter and Paul preached the gospel of Christ. Peter preached Jesus as the Christ and the Son of God as did Paul. Peter preached grace....Jesus by grace redeemed Israel of the sins they committed under the first testament. The new covenant promised Israel was by grace. Paul was given the full revelation of the gospel of Christ....how the shed blood of Christ for the redemption of the sins of Israel under the old testament were forgiven and that this same blood was applied to us, the body of Christ, in this dispensation, to both Jew and Gentile.

This essentially sounds right to me and in accord with Scripture. I cannot think of a place in scripture where Peter talks about grace the way that Paul does, as in emphasizing salvation completely without works and towards every Gentile tribe and nation. I do believe it is of grave importance for everyone in this dispensation to believe in exactly that.


1 Peter 3:18 Peter is saying that Christ died for the unjust. Israel was unjust. They failed to believe on Christ. They failed to believe the gospel of the kingdom which would have brought in the kingdom on earth. We can not read Paul into this and say Peter preached salvation for all.

1 Peter 5:10 Just because Peter mentions grace does not mean he is preaching the grace in Paul's gospel. The Jews would have to suffer in the tribulation, but by grace would be delivered.

2 Peter 1:10-11 Peter was telling the remnant of Israel that they had to remain steadfast, to endure til the end of the tribulation in order to enter the kingdom as can be seen in verse 11.

I'll have to study more about Israel and end times before I can agree or disagree, but I will keep this mind. It's a topic that seems to be a certain investment in time and prayer and attention, but I hope to have the time to study it. I guess what is essential though is to beleive Paul's Gospel?
 

thborn

New member
Could you also let me know how 1 John fits with your views?

1 John was written to the remnant of Israel in the last times of the tribulation as seen in 1 John 2:18.
Israel had to know who was the believing remnant and who were false brethren.

Ciuld be, I'll keep that in mind.
 

thborn

New member
The new creature is the new identity in the body of Christ wherein there is neither Jew or Gentile.

Predestination in Romans 8 is simply God determining, according to his purpose, how we would be saved.

Romans 9 through 11 is all about Israel and the election of God by grace and not by works. It is all about the remnant of Israel and how Gentiles who believed the gospel back when the gospel of the kingdom was preached, were grafted into the remnant of Israel and how Israel would be saved.

Does it mean a lot further and much more to be a new creation? As in, God is working within that person now so that they will grow holier and not fall and really turn from sin? It seems to me that is what Paul says over and over. What do you think of the proven saved positon? And of passing the test and some believing in vain (found in 2 Corinthians and 1 Corinthians, I think)?

I think Romans 9 though 11 does have something more that applies to Gentiles in terms of predestination, but as long as you desire to give glory to God and not to people with your beliefs and not in works that people do , that may be enough.
 

Right Divider

Body part
I'll have to study more about Israel and end times before I can agree or disagree, but I will keep this mind. It's a topic that seems to be a certain investment in time and prayer and attention, but I hope to have the time to study it. I guess what is essential though is to beleive Paul's Gospel?
Another interesting verse that shows the difference between what Peter and Paul taught is this:

1Pe 1:5 KJV Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Clearly this is NOT the salvation that Paul says that member of the body of Christ already have.
 

DougE

Well-known member
Does it mean a lot further and much more to be a new creation? As in, God is working within that person now so that they will grow holier and not fall and really turn from sin? It seems to me that is what Paul says over and over. What do you think of the proven saved positon? And of passing the test and some believing in vain (found in 2 Corinthians and 1 Corinthians, I think)?

I think Romans 9 though 11 does have something more that applies to Gentiles in terms of predestination, but as long as you desire to give glory to God and not to people with your beliefs and not in works that people do , that may be enough.

God works in us according to Philippians 2:13
Paul wants us to know who we are in Christ and sin has no more dominion over us....we can chose to walk in the Spirit and obey the word of God.

We are justified by faith in Christ and believing the gospel....nowhere does Paul say we can lose salvation.

Believing in vain (1 Corinthians 15:2) was in the context of Paul saying they would have believed the gospel in vain if there was, as some said, no resurrection....they were being urged not to be moved away from the hope(certainty) of their faith in believing the gospel.
 

DougE

Well-known member
This essentially sounds right to me and in accord with Scripture. I cannot think of a place in scripture where Peter talks about grace the way that Paul does, as in emphasizing salvation completely without works and towards every Gentile tribe and nation. I do believe it is of grave importance for everyone in this dispensation to believe in exactly that.




I'll have to study more about Israel and end times before I can agree or disagree, but I will keep this mind. It's a topic that seems to be a certain investment in time and prayer and attention, but I hope to have the time to study it. I guess what is essential though is to beleive Paul's Gospel?
I guess what is essential though is to beleive Paul's Gospel?

Exactly right
 

clefty

New member
I guess what is essential though is to beleive Paul's Gospel?

Exactly right

So you are to establish the Law which faith does NOT make void...you know “copy me as I copy Christ”

and NOT divide His House...wishing to LOOT the Promise enshrined in the Law which you riot and protest against as “NOT FOR ME” despite His Law remaining to determine the right of adoption and inheritance on condition to its terms...

but you are so MAD at rules you’d rather squat in His kingdom and demand to “defund the police”...look around it is obviously the spirit of the age...

your leader too thought to change both times and laws as His ways were “NOT FOR ME” and was cast down from heaven...he too believes but does NOT obey...
 

thborn

New member
God works in us according to Philippians 2:13
Paul wants us to know who we are in Christ and sin has no more dominion over us....we can chose to walk in the Spirit and obey the word of God.

Yes, as you noted, Philippians 2:13 says "it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose." But I'm not always sure about what is meant by choice and God working in us. How far can one fall into sin after having believed? Do we not know for sure? Can it be very different for different people? Do some people quickly become very holy through God working in them, but for other people it takes longer? Should I have faith that someone who believed cannot go on to a period of committing murders or prolonged immoral habits?

In the end the believer does stand.... Romans 14: 4 "And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand" Am I using this quote in a correct way?

We are justified by faith in Christ and believing the gospel....nowhere does Paul say we can lose salvation.

Agreed. Those who have firmly believed out of a pure motive according to Paul's Gospel cannot lose their salvation.

I am a little unsure as to how this applies to what God says to the churches in Revelation, though, some of which sound like Gentile churches (I think?) I guess we have to say that the people who do not hold firm and are punished never really believed?
 

DougE

Well-known member
Yes, as you noted, Philippians 2:13 says "it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose." But I'm not always sure about what is meant by choice and God working in us. How far can one fall into sin after having believed? Do we not know for sure? Can it be very different for different people? Do some people quickly become very holy through God working in them, but for other people it takes longer? Should I have faith that someone who believed cannot go on to a period of committing murders or prolonged immoral habits?

In the end the believer does stand.... Romans 14: 4 "And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand" Am I using this quote in a correct way?



Agreed. Those who have firmly believed out of a pure motive according to Paul's Gospel cannot lose their salvation.

I am a little unsure as to how this applies to what God says to the churches in Revelation, though, some of which sound like Gentile churches (I think?) I guess we have to say that the people who do not hold firm and are punished never really believed?

When we sin we have forgiveness but can suffer for it and lose reward.

The churches in Revelation are not the body of Christ......they are remnant churches of believing Israel.
 

Zeke

Well-known member
Neville Goddard Lecture – Paul’s Autobiography.


Paul is the greatest and most influential figure in the history of Christianity. After you hear his story you may judge just who he is. After his credentials have gained him public confidence, Paul begins. Paul wrote 13 letters, if you take the double letters as two: like 1st and 2nd Corinthians, 1st and 2nd Timothy, and 1st and 2nd Thessalonians. He first appears in scripture in the Book of Acts . . and bear in mind the Book of Acts was once part of the Book of Luke. The same author who wrote the Book of Luke wrote the Book of Acts. They were once one volume, or one book in two volumes. Our early fathers divided the two and placed the Gospel of John between them. He first appears in the book that we will call the Gospel of Luke, only we now call it the Book of Acts.

He was present when the first Christian martyr, Stephen, was stoned to death . . and Paul consented unto Stephen’s death. Those who stoned Stephen placed their coats at the feet of Saul. (His name was then Saul. Acts 7:2) In the 9th chapter, he starts the great journey to Damascus, and he carries with him letters to the high priest in Damascus. He pledges himself if he finds anyone belonging to “the Way,” be he man or woman, he will bring them bound to Jerusalem. All who believed it were called “followers of the Way,” not Christians. On the way to bind those who belonged to the Way, he was blinded by the light, and then the whole thing was revealed to him, and his name was transformed from Saul to Paul.

The remaining portion of the Book of Acts is devoted almost exclusively to Paul, at least the last 16 chapters, which would begin with the first verse of the 13th chapter to the 28th, where he ends his days still propounding this mystery and trying to persuade everyone of the truth of Jesus. Beginning with the law of Moses and all of the prophets, he explained to them in all the scripture the truth concerning Jesus. Some were convinced by what he said, while others disbelieved him. That’s the story.

If I would read Paul and take one of his letters that will really explain Paul to me, I would go to the letter of Galatians for in Galatians (which scholars claim to be the first book of the New Testament . . it came before the Gospels, it came before any book, so they say) in this letter, he makes the claim: “I Paul, an apostle not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead.” Here is a declaration of complete religious independence from all men, and dependent on God, repudiating in this letter all authority, institutions, customs, and laws that interfered with the direct acceptance of the individual to his God. No intermediary between the individual and his God, none, called by any name. Then he said: “The Gospel which I preach is not the Gospel of man, for I did not receive it from a man, neither was I taught it, it was given to me by revelation of Jesus Christ.” (Galatians 1:11) “For when it pleased God to reveal his son in me, then I conferred not with flesh and blood.” (Galatians 1:16-17)

You ask the question of Paul: “Was he or Christ once really a man?” If you asked that of Paul, he would say: “Was?” “He is the heavenly man.” Well, does that answer you? You are asking the question: “Was he really ever a man?” and you’ll reply: “Not was . . he is the heavenly man.” “As we have borne the image of the man of dust, so shall we also bear the image of the heavenly man.” That still doesn’t satisfy. “Was he really a man as we understand a man?” He doesn’t respond, in time. Then you read his words: “From now on we will regard no one from a human point of view, even though we formerly regarded Christ from a human point of view, we regard him thus no longer.” (2 Corinthians 5:16) Then he makes the statement in the same chapter: “God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, not counting any trespasses against them, and entrusting us with the message of reconciliation.” (v. 19) You will see later on what Paul is trying to tell us, if I would substitute the word “imagination” for “God,” and “imagining” for “Christ.” Imagining means the activity of imagination . . that imagination was imagining, reconciling the world to himself and not counting any trespasses against them, and then entrusting to us this message of imagining.

Now we will go to this great Book of Galatians, 2:20: “I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.” Bear in mind imagining being that son, imagination being God the Father. Now let us go to the first two verses of the 3rd chapter: “O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?” Listen to the words carefully: “Before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.” Do you know what “portray” means? I think we all know, but let me refresh your memory: “To depict in a drawing or painting; or in some verbal description; or as an action on a stage,” a play on the stage. “O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?” Answer me only this: “Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?” “Are you so foolish? Having begun with the Spirit, are you ending with the flesh?” Do you get it? The whole vast world has fallen victim to believing in the flesh of Jesus. Have you, having begun with the spirit . . are you falling now, actually blind, and a victim of the flesh?

You were shown the whole thing like a play going on a stage tonight, and someone moved across the stage and they played the perfect play of God’s only salvation, the only way that man could be saved. And he walks across the stage and he plays it, and every scene he enacts is a mystical scene to be experienced by the individual. That was all done. Now are you going to confuse it? Can’t you now have that little spirit of observance and separate the action of walking across the stage from what he is trying to portray? For he is portraying it. If you go to a play and someone is shot, you know he will go home after being shot and have the most wonderful time . . for their day begins at night. But you will weep, sitting in the audience, as you see him being shot, being abused. But he wasn’t shot and he wasn’t abused, save as an actor . . but not the being who put on the mask, who played the part. So, let me repeat it: “Whose eye beheld Jesus Christ publicly portrayed as crucified.” The world thinks he was flesh and blood. No, he wasn’t flesh and blood. This is the fulfillment of all that was told in the Old Testament, but no one understood it, [except] the one to whom it was revealed (you call him Paul now). “When it pleased God to reveal his Son in me, I conferred not with flesh and blood, and the Gospel that I preach to you is not man’s Gospel. I did not receive it from a man nor was I taught it but it was revealed by Jesus Christ.” The whole thing was revealed and I saw the mystery of it all, the mystery of salvation: that Christianity is based upon the affirmation that a series of events happened in which God revealed himself in action for the salvation of man. The thing happened, for the play said it did. I went to the play and I saw it and I was part of the gathering, and they hoped I would have the spirit of discernment to separate the action of the actor from what he was acting, and see the spirit, not the flesh. Did I see the spirit? Then after a while come the teachers, who did not participate, and they tell you he is flesh and blood. He was born of a certain woman, on a certain day, in a manner that you were born . . only he didn’t have a physical father. And that isn’t true at all. This birth is something entirely different, as told us in the Book of John: “He is born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” An entirely different birth takes place, which is all explained as the play unfolds. You saw the spirit . . but don’t go back, not to the flesh.

Now the story begins. We are called the followers of “the Way.” Is that the way of salvation? I’ll believe it. I will wait patiently until it unfolds in me, for that is the way of salvation. Then in the 14th [chapter] of John, we are told: “And now you know the Way.” And Thomas said: “We do not know the way. We do not know where you are going so how do we know the way?” He said: “I AM the way, and the truth and the light.” It is not a man, “follow me home.” All that you will see me do upon the stage, . . that is the way . . so, “I AM the way.” He didn’t say I AM this, that or the other . . “I AM the way.” You follow the whole thing . . that spirit that moves before you and you will see the way of salvation. They still didn’t understand him. They said a way to what? A way to everything, but primarily “the Way to the Father.” “For no one comes to the Father but by me.” So, don’t look upon me as flesh and blood . . “I AM the way.” Follow my story through this series of events and you’ll come to the Father. So the state unfolds on the stage and they all see the spirit, but many could not discern and discriminate between the action of the actor and what the actor was portraying.

We come back to Galatians: “Before whose eye Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.” There you see it. The whole thing is unfolding on a stage, but man cannot lose himself to the point where he gets beyond the action of an actor. And he cries and weeps with the actor. He’s portraying something, but they can’t get what he is portraying. Read the story of Jesus and don’t think of Jesus as flesh and blood. He is God himself, unfolding it before you in the form of a man that can see a man walking across the stage.

So, is Paul the initial awakened being? You judge it . . I don’t know. I am led to believe he is, that Paul [is] the most influential, the most important figure in the history of Christianity, that he was the one to whom it was revealed. He was fiery in his destruction of everything other than the outer observation of the law, and then to him it was revealed. So take courage. If you are violent today in supporting something that is external that you must observe, it doesn’t matter. Paul did the same thing and suddenly he was blinded by the revelation and he saw the mystery of life. And he saw that Christ was within him. “And when it pleased God to reveal his son in me, then I conferred not with flesh and blood.” To whom would I turn and ask them to throw light upon an experience that is not understood by mortal mind? But having known the Bible as he did . . he was well grounded in it . . he could return to his Bible and see where it was all foretold, but he could not on that level understand it. It had to be unveiled. As it was unveiled he saw the interpretation of the ancient Scripture. Then in the end of Acts, when he stands before King Agrippa, he says: “Here I stand before you chained, condemned for hope in the promise made by God to our fathers. Here I have hope in that promise and stand in chains before you because I know it is true.” And then he spent the rest of his days expounding the story concerning . . what he called then . . Jesus. And the whole world of Christendom thinks it is a man of flesh and blood.

Jesus means, “Jehovah saves,” “Jehovah is salvation.” There is nothing in the teaching of Paul but God and man . . no intermediary. So God himself is inwoven in man and unfolds himself in man in a series of events. And as he then unfolds, as he unfolded in Paul, then he knew the mystery of the scripture. When he tries to tell it, those who followed him in the past (because he condemned and allowed the death of others for believing in it, then he himself fell victim to his belief) . . well, who’ll believe it?

As I go across this country the one question that is always asked me, whether it is a social gathering or any place: “Well, don’t you believe in a physical Jesus?” No matter where I go, I get it. I go to a small little dinner party of four or five . . “I know what you say Neville, but don’t you really believe that he did live, that he walked this earth 2,000 years ago and was called Jesus, and his mother was Mary and his father was Joseph . . or maybe it wasn’t Joseph?” To the unprepared mind, how can you explain what Paul said in the first three verses of the 3rd chapter of Galatians: “O foolish Galatians who has bewitched you?” For they went astray to some physical sense: “Before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.” Now I ask you one thing: Did you receive the spirit from those works of the Lord, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish, having begun with the spirit are you now ending with the flesh?” For the whole vast world today is ending with the flesh and they can’t see the spirit which is Christ Jesus.

Christ Jesus is in man, us, the way, “Christ in you is the hope of glory.” And in 2 Corinthians 13, Paul says: “Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you, unless of course you fail to meet the test.” I hope you realize we have not failed. If Jesus Christ is in me, then I should start looking to find out where he is. I have found him by a search and an experiment. When he said “God is in Christ reconciling the world to himself, not holding any trespasses against them and entrusting to us the spirit of reconciliation,” so then, God is Christ and Christ is in me, then who are we? And I discovered that God is my own wonderful human imagination. God in action is Christ, and imagination in action is imagining. So, imagination imagining is reconciling the world to itself. Now to those who discover it, he entrusts this great secret of reconciliation.

So, you take every being in the world . . all right, let them go astray, it doesn’t matter. If with God all things are possible and he works and creates only through Christ, and Christ is now imagining . . I could imagine you are what I want you to be, if I really believe in Christ, for “Christ in you is the hope of glory.” And though at the moment you don’t respond, and tomorrow you still do not respond, I’ll persist, for that is the attribute of patience.

Read the fruit of the spirit. It is not only love and joy and peace . . it is patience, it is persistence. In the end of the book of Galatians he gives you the proof of the spirit. So, I can persist, I can be patient. I will imagine they are as they ought to be, though at the moment reason denies it and my senses deny it, and everything denies it. But this is the fruit of the spirit. I’ll be patient. I will imagine things are as I would like them to be. That is God in action, and God in action is Christ. I like what I am doing there, for the spirit bears the fruit of love, joy, and peace. These are the first petals that come out. Then come the other attributes and among them you will find there is patience, there is persistence.

So, Paul, to me, is the first in whom the vision took place. It came to one of the smallest tribes, Benjamin, a child of Abraham. Abraham is faith. It was all shown to Abraham and he believed it, and waited patiently for the fulfillment of what was shown him. He saw the play, too. It was all portrayed to Abraham. “And Abraham rejoiced that he was to see my day.” Then he went into the foreign land, as he was led by the spirit, but he still remained faithful to what he had seen in the play. The play unfolded before him and God played the part and God was Christ Jesus.

You say: “How could this Lord, this exalted Lord become human?” Again Paul answers, in his letter to the Philippians 2: “He emptied himself and became obedient unto death, even death upon a cross.” Again he is speaking in a mystery, for Paul is very fond of using the word “mystery” . . in fact he uses it no less than eighteen times. This . . the body. . is the cross. To him the cross was not the grievance of God but the love of God, and that crucifixion is the most delightful state. It is not a painful state, as the churches portray it. They don’t portray the true thing at all. It happened to me right in this present embodiment, where it was shown me so vividly how it was done. And the thrill that was mine the night my hands became vortexes, and my head a vortex, and my side a vortex, and the soles of my feet vortexes. I was in a pilgrimage over some invisible Mecca with some thousands of people, and a voice out of the blue announced: “And God walks with them.”

“I have been crucified with Christ, it is not I who live, but Christ who lives in me, and the life I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.” Listen to these words: “If we have been united with Christ in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.” The resurrection has taken place, but it is also taking place. It took place, and that first one . . whether you believe it or not . . is Paul, and from that moment on it is taking place in every being in the world, as we march toward this invisible Mecca. And along the way we are pulled out of the crowd one by one, and he awakens in the individual. And that one, without losing his distinctive individuality, is God.

So, Jesus Christ is God himself. The play is on. God became man and played the part and showed us all before we started the journey, but we can’t quite discriminate between the action and what the actor is actually trying to portray. Go back and read the words carefully: “Before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.” An actor depicts the thought, but man can’t quite discriminate between the thought depicted and the actor depicting the thought, and he thinks now the thing is flesh and blood . . and it isn’t.

You dwell upon it, and one day you will find yourself in that journey. The most colorful crowd in the world. Nothing on the screen compares to it in the color and the joy as you move towards this invisible Mecca, and you will hear a voice in the crowd, and the chances are it will always repeat itself in the same way. Someone will be at your side, and you will ask and they will ask: “But if God walks with him, where is he?” and the voice will come back: “At your side.” And they will look into your face and become hysterical, it will strike them so funny that you . . a normal man, with all the weaknesses of a man . . could be God. And the voice will come back and all will hear it: “Yes, in the act of waking.” Then, from the depths of your soul will come the same voice, and no one but you will hear it. And you . . I put it in words that the world will understand, but the words differ: “And God laid himself down within you to sleep.” It isn’t that. “I laid myself down within you to sleep, and as I slept I dreamed a dream, I dreamed” . . he is going to complete it . . “I dreamed I AM you.” That is what you are going to hear.

Then, at that moment you are going to find yourself being crucified in the most unique manner in the world. You will be sucked back into the body that is on the bed. Your hands are real vortexes, your feet vortexes, your head a vortex, and the right side a vortex. It’s a whirling joy as you are nailed once more to this body. Then you will know Paul’s words: “I have been crucified with Christ. It is not I who live but Christ who lives in me and the life I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.” And the Son of God, in whom there is life, is your own wonderful human imagination. Imagining is life itself. What you imagine becomes animated, it takes on life, it takes on motion, vibration. Read the whole book of Galatians and that wonderful 3rd chapter, and see Paul’s confession. No one taught it to him, he didn’t receive it from a man . . it came through a revelation of Jesus Christ. “And when it pleased God to reveal his Son in me I conferred not with flesh and blood.” God will reveal his Son in you in an explosion and you will see him standing before you and you will see that Son as your Son. Then you will know the meaning of the words: “No one comes unto the Father but by me, for I AM the way, I AM the truth, I AM the light.” Not a man called Jesus, or Neville, or Peter, or any other name. No. “I AM the way.” The Way is a series of mystical experiences. And you come to the Father in no other way save by me. So, watch this picture as it unfolds, for before you unfolded is the story. Before your eyes, Jesus Christ was publicly revealed in this garment.

So, that is the play. If you heard my story, that is the Way. There is no other way. Not a man called Neville . . what he experienced is the Way to come to the Father. And you will be brought by this series of experiences, for Christianity is based upon the affirmation that a series of events happened in which God revealed himself in action for the salvation of man. We are told in Luke [of] a series of events, and you are the being spoken of and you are brought right up to fatherhood. But “no one comes to the father but by me.” “I AM the way.” You go back and you see the first appearance of the Way is the story of Paul (Acts 9). He went through the experience of the Way, and he comes back and goes through hell, but not for one moment could he relinquish his experience. So, he closed his days explaining to everyone who would listen to him the story of the Way. And some believed him while others disbelieved him.
 
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