One easy question

clefty

New member
Greetings Bee1,Jesus is the true Sabbath and we find rest in him. We need to worship God every day and cease from our own works and the works of sin. Hebrews 3 and 4, Matthew 11:28-30.

Kind regards
Trevor

Heb 4:9 is clear...a Sabbath keeping remains for His people...

Probably also why Yahushua expected 2 periods of time to continue even after His death burial and resurrection and ascension even...winters and Sabbath...He instructed prayers be made that flight from future times of trouble not occur in the winter because well its winter...and on the Sabbath as well fleeing for your life is not exactly restful...lol...

Resting in Jesus does not prevent times of trouble it actually increases them if you know what I mean...pray your flight does not come in winter or on a Sabbath...

Dont flee on Sabbath or flee from it...lol
 

clefty

New member
I said
Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, and He says you can keep it or not keep it.

[Rom 14:4-6
4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems [one] day above another; another esteems every day [alike]. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who observes the day, observes [it] to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe [it]. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.

Nice...you make your savior Lie and Paul too...to be expected from one speaking boastful words seeking to change times and law....
 

clefty

New member
I'm not judging anyone .... the 7th day Sabbath was created by God .. and am citing what the Bible says about it. That's not me judging.

It is a special day unto the Lord ... he blessed it and sanctified it and named it the Sabbath and reminds us to keep it.

It's what His word says and what Jesus did. He kept the 7th day Sabbath, even in His death.

The 7th day Sabbath is different than other "sabbaths" within Jewish culture ... go read about them.

You arent judging a brother? We are to exactly judge those in the church...practice for when we judge the world and angels...
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
The Sabbath use to be Saturday. However, an event happened in history that was enough for a large sector of society to change to Sunday. That event, the resurrection of Jesus Christ which occurred on the first day of the week.
 

clefty

New member
The Sabbath is sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.
hmmm man’s tradition? http://isawthelightministries.com/daystarts.html

Believers of Gentile origin are not under the Law of Moses (see Acts 15), so they are not obligated to keep the Sabbath.

You do note that Acts 15:21 James the brother of Yahushua and the head of the jerusalem church concluded this council fully expecting and intending the gentiles crowding the synagogues to keep hearing Moses in every city every Sabbath...

Disobedient Christians worship on Sunday to recognize the resurrection of Jesus Christ, which occurred on the first day of the week.

Fixed it for you...
 

clefty

New member
Special days do not matter anymore.
to those unfaithful and hypocritical...claiming to follow Him and keep His commandments but only 9/10ths of them...

All those special days were ARE about Jesus.
there much better...Paul is clear as is Hebrews...

We are to observe Jesus all day every day.
you mean by not doing what He did?

He is our Sabbath Rest.
how can He be a seventh day time period?
 

clefty

New member
The Sabbath use to be Saturday. However, an event happened in history that was enough for a large sector of society to change to Sunday.
Not at the time of the event.

And the change was expect by Peter Paul even Daniel who warned of false teachings and wolves in sheeps clothing and boastful words spoken to change the times and laws of Yah...


That event, the resurrection of Jesus Christ which occurred on the first day of the week.

There was another time in history a huge event occured which prompted celebrations...after the Red Sea parted to save Israel and then kill her enemy...they saw their God raised up...and disobedient ones amongst that church in the wilderness also worshipped with false worship...
 

God's Truth

BANNED
Banned
to those unfaithful and hypocritical...claiming to follow Him and keep His commandments but only 9/10ths of them...
How many times does Jesus have to tell you that special days are worthless, just like circumcision and special diets.

there much better...Paul is clear as is Hebrews...
Anyone ignorant enough to think it is a sin not to do it is in error, they have fallen from grace.

you mean by not doing what He did?

how can He be a seventh day time period?

Hebrews 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.
 

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings clefty,
Heb 4:9 is clear...a Sabbath keeping remains for His people...
Yes, this is the true rest in Christ not the Sabbath under the Law. It also looks forward to the 7th Millennium.
Probably also why Yahushua expected 2 periods of time to continue even after His death burial and resurrection and ascension even...winters and Sabbath...He instructed prayers be made that flight from future times of trouble not occur in the winter because well its winter...and on the Sabbath as well fleeing for your life is not exactly restful...lol...
Resting in Jesus does not prevent times of trouble it actually increases them if you know what I mean...pray your flight does not come in winter or on a Sabbath...
Dont flee on Sabbath or flee from it...lol
The warning concerning the Sabbath was because the gates of Jerusalem were closed on the Sabbath. This is speaking concerning AD70 not fleeing in future times of trouble.
Nehemiah 13:19 (KJV): And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark before the sabbath, I commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the sabbath: and some of my servants set I at the gates, that there should no burden be brought in on the sabbath day.
Luke 21: 20-24 (KJV): 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.


Kind regards
Trevor
 

clefty

New member
How many times does Jesus have to tell you that special days are worthless, just like circumcision and special diets.
once...since He never did...special days and circumcision and special diets are not worthless as they are you know tutor or school master or shadow which still points to Him and beyond to the good things to come...all these thing help develope value and discipline and understanding as to how be more like HIM HIS WAY and not like the world or our former selves...

As for salvation sure they are worthless but so is anything that is not faith first and belief in Him His way and obedience to it...

All that is not to get you saved but to keep you abiding in Him His Way...fruits more like Him/His less like the the world/your former self


Anyone ignorant enough to think it is a sin not to do it is in error, they have fallen from grace.
exactly!! grace keeps us doing it...compels us to establish Law where ever we go...without grace we would have already been killed for not doing it...



Hebrews 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.
the seventh day Jesus? You do realize if it was to have been a person it would have been written that way...but Joshua did not give them rest therefore a Sabbath keeping rest remains for His people...
 

2003cobra

New member
You do note that Acts 15:21 James the brother of Yahushua and the head of the jerusalem church concluded this council fully expecting and intending the gentiles crowding the synagogues to keep hearing Moses in every city every Sabbath...
That is not what Acts 15:21 says.

Therefore I have reached the decision that we should not trouble those Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but we should write to them to abstain only from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from whatever has been strangled and from blood. 21 For in every city, for generations past, Moses has had those who proclaim him, for he has been read aloud every sabbath in the synagogues."


What verse 21 actually says is that the Law has been read in the past to Jews in the synagogue. It is not about Gentiles in the future.

Its meaning is found in the previous verses: since the Jews have been studying the law so long, it is important for the believers of Gentile origin to abstain from blood, things offered to idols, things strangled, and fornication in order for fellowship to occur between the two groups.

Do read the text again. You have read into it things not said or meant.
 

clefty

New member
Greetings clefty,
Yes, this is the true rest in Christ not the Sabbath under the Law. It also looks forward to the 7th Millennium.
sabbatismos a hebrew greek mashup word made specifically for seventh day sabbath keeping the hebrew speaking greek jews would immediately identify as the weekly sabbath...one cannot keep or observe a person...

The warning concerning the Sabbath was because the gates of Jerusalem were closed on the Sabbath.
the walls and its gates went around all of Judea did it?

This is speaking concerning AD70 not fleeing in future times of trouble.
well its beyond the time christians claim the Law was abolished at the cross...it even beyond the time He ascended...probably why His followers kept keeping it...

besides Matt 24:14 speaks of this gospel of the kingdom preached in all the world as a witness to all nations...and then the END will come...does that really sound like ad 70 add to that this great tribulations such as not seen since beginning of world...nor ever after...and if it were not for divine intervention NO FLESH WOULD BE SAVED? Does that sound like 70 AD it ends with the son of man coming on the clouds of heaven...does that sound like ad 70?


Nehemiah 13:19 (KJV): And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark before the sabbath, I commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the sabbath: and some of my servants set I at the gates, that there should no burden be brought in on the sabbath day.
Luke 21: 20-24 (KJV): 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.


Kind regards
Trevor

Even the Luke rendering includes the Son of Man returning...is that AD 70
 

clefty

New member
That is not what Acts 15:21 says.

Therefore I have reached the decision that we should not trouble those Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but we should write to them to abstain only from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from whatever has been strangled and from blood. 21 For in every city, for generations past, Moses has had those who proclaim him, for he has been read aloud every sabbath in the synagogues."


What verse 21 actually says is that the Law has been read in the past to Jews in the synagogue. It is not about Gentiles in the future.

Its meaning is found in the previous verses: since the Jews have been studying the law so long, it is important for the believers of Gentile origin to abstain from blood, things offered to idols, things strangled, and fornication in order for fellowship to occur between the two groups.

Do read the text again. You have read into it things not said or meant.

So just these four things?...all of which are in the OT AND REQUIRED OF GENTILES BACK THEN...two of which are dietary laws...is that it?

None of the 10? Or just 9 of the 10...lemme guess...not the Sabbath...despite it being the ONLY commandment given specifically to non jews...

James knew the gentiles would continue to come to synagogues in every city and hear Moses...yup every sabbath...you know WWJD? Not Sunday worship then Ham dinner...lol
 

2003cobra

New member
So just these four things?...all of which are in the OT AND REQUIRED OF GENTILES BACK THEN...two of which are dietary laws...is that it?

None of the 10? Or just 9 of the 10...lemme guess...not the Sabbath...despite it being the ONLY commandment given specifically to non jews...

James knew the gentiles would continue to come to synagogues in every city and hear Moses...yup every sabbath...you know WWJD? Not Sunday worship then Ham dinner...lol

If a person does those four things, and practices the commands of Jesus that we love one another and do unto others as we would have done to us, what sin is possible?
 

clefty

New member
Foreigners living in the land of Israel during the theocracy.

Are you not Israel His people He is king of? Citizen adopted grafted in to replace those kicked out?....Arent you part of the church in the wilderness as poor stephen called it before they killed him for reaffirming it’s glorified Leader returned to His thrown at the right hand of Yah...
 

2003cobra

New member
Fortunately, the Apostles used the authority Jesus granted them to declare that believers of Gentile origin are not under the Law of Moses. So I don’t have to keep the Sabbath and I can enjoy a shrimp and pork.

And, since Jesus told the Apostles whatever they loosed on earth would be loosed in heaven, I can rely on their decision and no one can put the yoke of the law on my neck.
 

clefty

New member
If a person does those four things, and practices the commands of Jesus that we love one another and do unto others as we would have done to us, what sin is possible?

False witness?

Do you do those four things? None of which kept them from sin BTW

Jesus DID NOT command we just love one another and do unto others as we would have done to us...


Many of us would have done to us many things not included in the Love He loved us...think about it...

We are to love Him JUST AS He loved us...not as the world loves...Buddhists do the golden rule as do muslims etc...

Is THAT just as He commanded? Is that loving JUST AS He loved us?...is the golden rule what we to abide in His Love and the will of His Father?
 

clefty

New member
Fortunately, the Apostles used the authority Jesus granted them to declare that believers of Gentile origin are not under the Law of Moses. So I don’t have to keep the Sabbath and I can enjoy a shrimp and pork.
they didnt declare that...

All four of these in Acts 15 were required under moses law of gentiles...

Please dont tell me that you think if you kill a pig by NOT strangling it and making sure you bleed it out you transform it into clean meat permitted to eat?

How about human flesh? All good?

The horror (I assume of you) of us considering eating human meat is the same horror a jew had to considering pig...


Paul instructed gentiles in Corinth to keep the festival with the unleavened bread of truth and spirit...



Sabbath is not Moses’ Law...

And, since Jesus told the Apostles whatever they loosed on earth would be loosed in heaven, I can rely on their decision and no one can put the yoke of the law on my neck.

Loosening is forgiveness...bind into the fold or release through forgivenss...not change dogma...

The yoke is easy buddy...especially since its His Law...and you are in Him yes? His Slave? Or you still feel free to do as you did before you died to self and became a new creature in Him...you more like yourself before He bought you and you consented to be His...or more like Him...
 
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