No more water... baptism.

[Right Divider]

According to the Mid-Acts dispensationalist perspective, water baptism is viewed as potentially confusing for several key reasons:

• It contradicts the gospel of grace: The core gospel revealed to Paul centers entirely on the finished work of Christ on the cross, not on any human works. Preaching water baptism introduces something that you do, which confuses the message that salvation is strictly by grace based on what Christ did.
• It detracts from the power of the cross: Paul explicitly states in 1 Corinthians 1 that Christ sent him not to baptize, but to preach the gospel "lest the Cross of Christ should be made of none effect". Practicing water baptism is seen as interfering with the preaching of the cross and taking away from its power.
• It creates confusion about church membership: The Mid-Acts view teaches that an individual becomes part of the church (the body of Christ) simply by believing the gospel. When people seek water baptism because they think it makes them a part of the church, it shows an ignorance of how one actually enters the body of Christ, thereby causing confusion.
• It fuels unnecessary theological debates: Because biblical passages aimed at Israel (such as John the Baptist's ministry, Mark 16:16, or Peter's preaching in Acts) clearly tie water baptism to repentance and the remission of sins, trying to apply those passages to the modern church creates dilemmas. It leads to endless debates over whether baptism is necessary for salvation, or if it is merely a tradition or act of service.
• It hides the gospel behind symbolism: Rather than relying on physical rituals to symbolize spiritual realities—such as using water to symbolize dying—this perspective argues that it is much better to preach the plain facts of the gospel directly.

 

[Bright Raven]

Is not Water Baptism a symbology of the death burial and resurrection of the Lord?

 

[Right Divider]

Is not Water Baptism a symbology of the death burial and resurrection of the Lord?

Only in the myth of Churchianity. You cannot find that symbology defined anywhere in Paul's epistles.

Note: We do not bury people in water. If that symbology were true, we are drowning people to add them to the body of Christ. But that is NOT how it works. Here is how it works:

1Cor 12:13 (AKJV/PCE)​

(12:13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.​

We are baptized into the body by the Spirit and not by water. That is why Paul says that there is ONE baptism for the body of Christ (Spirit not water).

 

[Bright Raven]

Water baptism is an ordinance or sacrament instituted by our Lord Jesus Christ, to be practiced until the end of the age, which signifies a believer’s union with Christ in his life, death, burial, and resurrection, and one’s membership in the church, God’s new covenant people.

So much for mythology

 

[Right Divider]

Water baptism is an ordinance or sacrament instituted by our Lord Jesus Christ, to be practiced until the end of the age, which signifies a believer’s union with Christ in his life, death, burial, and resurrection, and one’s membership in the church, God’s new covenant people.

So much for mythology

Sorry, @Bright Raven ... you are very confused because of your lack of right division.

The Lord Jesus Christ did many things while on earth that do NOT apply to the body of Christ. Jesus was a ministry of the circumcision (i.e., Israel) Rom 15:8.

We, the body of Christ, are NOT "God's new covenant people". We are saved apart from any covenant (unless, perhaps, you want to call our dispensation "a covenant of grace").

When Jesus was on earth during His earthly ministry to Israel, the body of Christ and the dispensation of the grace of God were still hidden, i.e., a mystery that was first revealed to and through the apostle Paul.

Rom 16:25-27 (AKJV/PCE)​

(16:25) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, (16:26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: (16:27) To God only wise, [be] glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen. ¶ Written to the Romans from Corinthus, [and sent] by Phebe servant of the church at Cenchrea.​

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Col 1:24-29 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:24) Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: (1:25) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; (1:26) [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: (1:27) To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: (1:28) Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: (1:29) Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.​

You need to get on board with God's plans.

 

[Bright Raven]

Sorry, @Bright Raven ... you are very confused because of your lack of right division.

The Lord Jesus Christ did many things while on earth that do NOT apply to the body of Christ. Jesus was a ministry of the circumcision (i.e., Israel) Rom 15:8.

We, the body of Christ, are NOT "God's new covenant people". We are saved apart from any covenant (unless, perhaps, you want to call our dispensation "a covenant of grace").

When Jesus was on earth during His earthly ministry to Israel, the body of Christ and the dispensation of the grace of God were still hidden, i.e., a mystery that was first revealed to and through the apostle Paul.

Rom 16:25-27 (AKJV/PCE)​

(16:25) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, (16:26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: (16:27) To God only wise, [be] glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen. ¶ Written to the Romans from Corinthus, [and sent] by Phebe servant of the church at Cenchrea.​

​

Col 1:24-29 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:24) Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: (1:25) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; (1:26) [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: (1:27) To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: (1:28) Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: (1:29) Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.​

You need to get on board with God's plans.

Why was Jesus Baptised?

 

[Right Divider]

Why was Jesus Baptised?

Indeed... do you know why? Hint: It wasn't for the remission of sins (and it most certainly wasn't symbolic of His death, burial and resurrection).

BR, you have to understand that Jesus was a Jew under the Law (Gal 4:4). As I said, and it seems that you completely ignored me, Jesus was A MINISTER OF THE CIRCUMCISION (i.e., His ministry was TO ISRAEL). Israel had MANY baptisms in their law and practices. None of THEIR baptisms have any bearing on the body of Christ which has ONE baptism, a SPIRIT baptism INTO the BODY.

Gal 4:4 (AKJV/PCE)​

(4:4) But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,​

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Rom 15:8 (AKJV/PCE)​

(15:8) Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises [made] unto the fathers:​

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Paul goes on to tell US (i.e., the body of Christ) that WE are NOT to know Jesus that way any more.

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2Cor 5:16 (AKJV/PCE)​

(5:16) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more. ​

 

[Bright Raven]

Matthew 28:19-20

New King James Version

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19 Go [a]therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” [b]Amen.

 

[Right Divider]

Matthew 28:19-20​

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New King James Version​

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19 Go [a]therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” [b]Amen.

BR, you are continuing to not understand the audience... rightly divide dude!

 

[Bright Raven]

who told them to be baptized?

 

[Right Divider]

who told them to be baptized?

BR, these "gotcha" questions will get you nowhere.

Are you under the impression that God never changes His instructions?

1Cor 1:17 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:17) For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.​

Water baptism is totally and completely JEWISH. God gave Israel many water baptisms. But God gave the body of Christ ONE baptism.

Eph 4:5 (AKJV/PCE)​

(4:5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,​

Here is that ONE baptism:

1Cor 12:13 (AKJV/PCE)​

(12:13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.​

If you want to "discuss" water baptism... then at least make some sort of an argument. But... due to scripture... you'll not get very far.

There are many cases in scripture, where God changes His instructions. Here is one:

Gen 2:15 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:15) And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. ​

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Gen 3:24 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:24) So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.​

Adam could not very well "dress it and keep it" after he was kicked OUT of the garden of Eden.

Here is another very good example:

Luke 9:3 (AKJV/PCE)​

(9:3) And he said unto them, Take nothing for [your] journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.​

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Luke 22:36 (AKJV/PCE)​

(22:36) Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take [it], and likewise [his] scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.​

You have to watch closely for the BUT NOW passages... it means that something is CHANGING.

Rom 16:25-26 (AKJV/PCE)​

(16:25) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, (16:26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​