Neither Jew nor Greek....

B

Ben Masada

New member
tetelestai said:
1 - You're right Ben. Paul taught that the New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant.

2 - Paul told us he was a minister of the New Covenant.

3 - You're also right about the New Covenant being the foundation of the NT.

4 - The law has changed, and the priesthood has changed. The old law and old priesthood have been REPLACED.

Unlike Darby Followers (Dispensationalists), I'm totally fine with the word REPLACED, and Replacement Theology.
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1 - You are right. Paul threw the foundation of his church in that lie because the New Covenant had absolutely nothing to do with the NT.

2 - Really! Now, I wonder why the Apostles of Jesus rejected Paul when he tried to join the Sect of the Nazarenes on the pretext that he couldn't even be a disciple. (Acts 9:26)

3 - Nice try! You may want to try again because, I can see that you are trying to imitate Paul's lie. What I said was that Replacement Theology and not the New Covenant was the foundation of the NT.

4 - And do you know why you can't quote that? Because you don't remember where you read it. Let me help you. That's in the Pauline Letter to the Hebrews in 7:12,22.

5 - I never doubted about that because the apple never falls too far from the tree.
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Ben Masada said:
2 - Really! Now, I wonder why the Apostles of Jesus rejected Paul when he tried to join the Sect of the Nazarenes on the pretext that he couldn't even be a disciple. (Acts 9:26)
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Because before Saul's conversion to Paul, he was a Pharisee who was persecuting the early Christians.

(Gal 1:23) They only heard the report: “The man who formerly persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.”

Paul said the following about himself:

(Phil 3:4-6) If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.
 
B

Ben Masada

New member
tetelestai said:
1 - What happened to all those Israelites from the House of Israel (Northern Nation) who the Assyrians removed from their country and scattered throughout the world?

2 -Those Israelites from the 10 tribes would be very numerous in number by now.

3 - Also, what great multitude of nations did the descendants of Ephraim become? Jacob told Joseph the descendants of Manasseh would be great, but that the descendants of Ephraim would be even greater and become a multitude of nations.

4 - (Gen 48:19) And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

5 - Please list the multitude of nations that the descendants of Ephraim became?

6 - I only ask this because it explains who the New Covenant was made with.
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1 - They got lost to never return again. The Lord Himself rejected them when He rejected the Tabernacle of Joseph so that Judah could remain as one nation in the whole Land of Israel. (Psalm 78:67-70)

2 - They are probably growing among the Gentiles qua Gentiles enriching the pool of the nations.

3 - Together with the Gentiles without any distinction.

4 - The Ten Tribes became known as Ephraim because Joseph who had got the blessing of the firstborn had lost that position for having been raised among the Gentiles in Egypt and been given as dead to his father Israel for many years.
(I Chronicles 5:2)

5 - No one knows, especially after they got lost in Assyria and, from Assyria into the whole world.

6 - It is already well explained in Jeremiah 31:31. The New Covenant was made with the House of Israel and the House of Judah as one nation. (Ezekiel 37:22) The reference to the House of Israel is due, according to Josephus, to 10% of the Israelites who escaped Assyria and joined Judah in the South between the time of the fall of virgin Israel according to Amos 5:2 and the taken over of Judah to Babylon. During that period they could join Judah without conversion but, after the return of the Jews from Babylon, any one would join only by conversion to Judaism. (Isaiah 56:1-8)
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Ben Masada said:
3 - Together with the Gentiles without any distinction.
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In Hosea, God told them they were "not a people", and that he would have "no mercy" on them (but that He would have mercy on Judah)

However, Hosea tells us that one day God would make them a people and have mercy on them.

(Hosea 2:23) And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.

How does that happen if as you say, they are with the Gentiles without any distinction?

HINT:

(1 Peter 2:10) Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
 
B

Ben Masada

New member
tetelestai said:
1 - Because before Saul's conversion to Paul, he was a Pharisee who was persecuting the early Christians.

2 - (Gal 1:23) They only heard the report: “The man who formerly persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.

3 - Paul said the following about himself: (Phil 3:4-6) If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.
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1 - Not true at all. It is not even logical to say so. For two reasons: First, because the Sect of the Pharisees was a selective Jewish Sect which would never welcome a Hellenist Jew, and Paul was one. Therefore, he was never a Pharisee. He was a liar. Second, Paul never persecuted a single Christian. The Logic of this lie is that one does not
found a church to persecute the adepts. He did persecute but the Nazarenes converted to Judaism by the Apostles, especially Peter. (Acts 15:7)

2 - And that was the Faith of the Nazarenes aka the New Way in the synagogues of the Jews. (Acts 9:1,2) Christians at that time did not exist yet.

3 - "In regard to the Law, a liar because he was not a Pharisee. Persecuting the church, another lie because the church did not exist yet. As for righteousness, based on the Law, faultless! Another lie. How could he be faultless as the Law was concerned if he served the Law only in his mind while serving sin in his flesh? That's what he declared in Romans 7:25. Besides, he also declared to have been released from the Law when it had been abolished on the cross. (Rom. 7:6 and Ephesians 2:15) The man was simply a pathological liar.
 
B

Ben Masada

New member
tetelestai said:
1 - In Hosea, God told them they were "not a people", and that he would have "no mercy" on them (but that He would have mercy on Judah)

2 - However, Hosea tells us that one day God would make them a people and have mercy on them.

3 - (Hosea 2:23) And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.

4 - How does that happen if as you say, they are with the Gentiles without any distinction?

5 - (1 Peter 2:10) Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
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1 - Indeed, Israel ceased to be a people before the Lord, and Judah was confirmed as the only People in the Land of Israel. (Psalm 78:67-70)

2 - Not as before as a different kingdom but about 10% together with Judah plus two thirds of the Levites.

3 - IMHO, that prophecy got fulfilled when about 10% of them who escaped Assyria, plus two thirds of the Levites who joined Judah before Judah was taken to Babylon for 70 years of exile.

4 - About 90% of them plus one third of the Levites was quite a number of people from the Ten Tribes. Believe me, that was a LOT of people from ancient Israel.

5 - Paul wrote that, not Peter who, according to Luke in Acts 4:13 was an unlearned and ignorant man. It means that illiterate people cannot write books. The other reason is in I Peter 5:12 which says Peter dictated his letters to Silvanus, the scribe of Paul which obviously is not true because Paul would never allow his scribe to take dictation from an apostle of the circumcision. Now, to verify that Silvanus was the scribe of Paul, you can read II Cor.1:19; and I and II Thess. 1:1.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
But the people and not a people language gets official interp in Rom 9 where "we" are the elect/remannt/or just "us" who are all ethnicities, and who have faith .
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Ben Masada said:
3 - IMHO, that prophecy got fulfilled when about 10% of them who escaped Assyria, plus two thirds of the Levites who joined Judah before Judah was taken to Babylon for 70 years of exile.
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Ezekiel says the stick of Joseph and the stick of Judah are joined when the New Covenant is made.

Wouldn't that mean that the two houses (Israel & Judah) were/are still separate until the NC was made?

Since you believe the NC hasn't been made yet, are the two houses still separate?
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
Interplanner said:
CR,
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Off to a great start.... Mr. FactChecker.

Interplanner said:
you are a disaster about context. The KJV 'church' in the OT wandering generation was not what LA or early church means in theological discussion.
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Which is EXACTLY why I brought it up. The "early church" that began on Israel's lawfully required feast day of Pentecost is a MYTH that has be perpetuated for a very long time and is just that, a MYTH.

Interplanner said:
Completely false of you to find that KJV item. None of the rest of your communication (like the word dudu) is KJV, so why would you find one exception like that to beat on someone with?

Then you take an intense debate between Christ and Judaism and use some lines from that about the same early church. That's complete chaos.
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The "church" of Pentecost was ENTIRELY made up of Israel and proselytes. Everything that happened that day was related to prophecy for the nation of Israel. The fact that folks like you try to make it the "birthday of the church" shows that you have no regard for the ACTUAL contents of the Bible, but prefer your mythology.

Acts 2:5 says "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.", showing that all of these men that had com from every nation to Jerusalem were ALL JEWS. Then after describing many of the nations from which they has come, in Acts 2:10 it says "Jews and proselytes". So Peter was preaching to this group and not to any gentiles.

Again in Acts 6, we see nothing but Jews and a proselyte. God choose to point out that these people were all Hebrews and Grecians (with ONE proselyte). Grecians are Greek speaking Jews. So God's dealings with Israel were continuing on, just like the Lord Jesus told them.

Up to this point there is STILL no Paul and no gospel of the grace of God being dispensed.

So if you want to hang on tightly to that myth of yours, go right ahead. God was still working with Israel until they rejected Him for the THIRD time and that happened at the end of Acts 7.
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Right Divider said:
It does NOT mean that HE or WE are UNDER said covenant.

Once again, this is one of the half a dozen verses that misunderstand and misrepresent to base your ENTIRE mythological story on.
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Was the New Covenant made with the shed blood of Jesus?
 
john w

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Right Divider said:
You are completely clueless as to what this actually means and I'm tired of showing it to you.
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Brother STP has shown him for years, picked him apart, but Craigie's father, the devil, just keeps telling him to deny it, assert/ spam, over, and over.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Those things happened to get Israel's attention about the mission of the Gospel, not about another stage of the state or theocracy of Israel.
 
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