ECT Moment of Salvation Compared to Water Baptism

[Danoh]

I'm not sure how I do that but I will take your word for it. I realize I'm in no position to judge who is saved and who is not saved. I understand that is for God to do. I merely try to point out error in understanding scripture.

Consider the PRINCIPLE clearly made obvious in a passage like the following...

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

It is obvious from passages in Scripture, like that one, that one CAN know from Scripture itself, whether one is saved or not.

Meaning only they and God can know that.

For salvation is a one on One personal matter.

All we can do is take their word that they actually hold to that which they are asserting, that is actually sound to begin with.

But the PRINCIPLE is CLEARLY taught in Scripture...

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Romans 5:6-8 being THREE MORE examples of the FACT that one CAN KNOW - not hope, not wonder - but KNOW that one IS...saved.

 

[turbosixx]

Do you not believe in works - and submitting to water baptism FOR salvation IS a work - for salvation?

If so, then you are either still lost and confused.

Or were once saved, but later ended up - a Galatian - as confused as they had ended up as you also are now so clearly confused.

I'm which case, you are merely spreading your confusion, whether you are aware of that, or not.

You did say you hold with "The Church of Christ" movement; did you not?

They are just as much a heretical cult as The Way International.

And many within both those cults know their Bibles inside and out, and then some.

Very impressive students of the Word.

But they might as well be as impressive in that as various of my Koran memorized from cover to cover friends - well studied in a completely false book.

For the fact of that matter is that "the gospel of the grace of God" asserts that it is...

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

The good works flow from that NOT FOR that salvation.

3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

If you find this offensive, well then, so be it.

None of us are Who any of us will have to answer to in then end.

What exactly we had each held to as to the truth of Rom. 5: 6-8, will be each our final judge.

I'm not offended at all with someone trying to show me a different way to view the truth. I'm only offended when I'm called names and characterized by false accusations.

I agree with the passages you quoted. We are not saved by our works. By submitting to water baptism no one earns salvation, it's still a gift. From what I read, baptism is what puts me into Christ.

I've been watching Richard Jordon trying to understand your viewpoint of water baptism. I assume you agree with him. This is what has come to mind.

Based off of one verse the meaning of baptism has gone from a water rite to by the Holy Spirit. That is confusing. Unless water is mentioned, how do we know what type it is? Of course, you will insist it's spirit. I say water baptism is how the gospel of Christ began and it hasn't changed from water. In Romans 6 when Paul says "all of us who have been baptized", well Paul was water baptized when he was converted. The last time he baptized someone on his last journey it was water.

There's a better way to avoid confusion. We can understand 1 Cor. 12:13 in a way that we do not have to change the meaning of baptism.

 

[God's Truth]

Consider the PRINCIPLE clearly made obvious in a passage like the following...

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

It is obvious from passages in Scripture, like that one, that one CAN know from Scripture itself, whether one is saved or not.

Meaning only they and God can know that.

For salvation is a one on One personal matter.

All we can do is take their word that they actually hold to that which they are asserting, that is actually sound to begin with.

But the PRINCIPLE is CLEARLY taught in Scripture...

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Romans 5:6-8 being THREE MORE examples of the FACT that one CAN KNOW - not hope, not wonder - but KNOW that one IS...saved.

Turbosixx tries to condemn people by the teachings of his denomination, and their misunderstanding that people CAN AND WERE saved BEFORE a water baptism...the apostles to the Lamb were, Cornelius and his whole household were, and Paul was.

Danoh tries to say no one has to get water baptized, even though the Apostles to the Lamb were, Cornelius and his whole household were, and Paul himself was---and Jesus Christ HIMSELF was.

You both are in very bad positions.

 

[God's Truth]

I'm not offended at all with someone trying to show me a different way to view the truth. I'm only offended when I'm called names and characterized by false accusations.

I agree with the passages you quoted. We are not saved by our works. By submitting to water baptism no one earns salvation, it's still a gift. From what I read, baptism is what puts me into Christ.

I've been watching Richard Jordon trying to understand your viewpoint of water baptism. I assume you agree with him. This is what has come to mind.

Based off of one verse the meaning of baptism has gone from a water rite to by the Holy Spirit. That is confusing. Unless water is mentioned, how do we know what type it is? Of course, you will insist it's spirit. I say water baptism is how the gospel of Christ began and it hasn't changed from water. In Romans 6 when Paul says "all of us who have been baptized", well Paul was water baptized when he was converted. The last time he baptized someone on his last journey it was water.

There's a better way to avoid confusion. We can understand 1 Cor. 12:13 in a way that we do not have to change the meaning of baptism.

Yikes.

Confusion abounds.

 

[turbosixx]

Then let's keep discussing together.

These others here will tell you that you are not saved, they will tell it to you straight out.

I don't speak to others like that, so why write me off?

Sorry if you thought I had written you off, I haven't. I enjoy talking with you. The only people I do not want to talk to are those that call me names and make accusations. Even if some get testy with me that's ok because I realize it's their passion for what they see as truth coming out. That's the way I am. I'm not perfect, I know. My wife keeps reminding me .

 

[God's Truth]

Sorry if you thought I had written you off, I haven't. I enjoy talking with you. The only people I do not want to talk to are those that call me names and make accusations. Even if some get testy with me that's ok because I realize it's their passion for what they see as truth coming out. That's the way I am. I'm not perfect, I know. My wife keeps reminding me .

I am glad you have not written me off;however, you keep insisting, as stated by your denomination, that no one is saved before a water baptism.

I tell you, I was saved before a water baptism, unless you want to count the water baptisms I had into false denominations.

 

[turbosixx]

I am glad you have not written me off;however, you keep insisting, as stated by your denomination, that no one is saved before a water baptism.

I tell you, I was saved before a water baptism, unless you want to count the water baptisms I had into false denominations.

Why are there more verses devoted to the conversion of Cornelius than any other conversion? Including Pentecost?

 

[God's Truth]

Why are there more verses devoted to the conversion of Cornelius than any other conversion? Including Pentecost?

Are there?

 

[Cross Reference]

That is absolutely incorrect. I am sincere. Just because I don't believe what you tell me doesn't mean I'm not sincere. From were I stand you don't have a clue but I don't accuse you of that because I'd rather not attack people but talk about scripture.

Sorry, I don't see it that way. You are insincere inasmuch as you don't want the real truth and are only looking for an alteative explanation for Jesus Christ. Your mind is made up and snapped shut. You have proven that as well.

I'm sorry if we've gotten off on the wrong foot.

Insincerity will always do that sort of thing especially with the unborn of God. Ergo, I don't believe you.

 

[turbosixx]

Are there?

Pentecost = 47 verses
Samaria and Eunuch = 37
Saul from 2 chapters = 34
Cornelius = Acts 10-48 Acts 11-14 Acts 15-3 Total = 65

Why so many?

 

[turbosixx]

Sorry, I don't see it that way. You are insincere inasmuch as you don't want the real truth and are only looking for an alteative explanation for Jesus Christ. Your mind is made up and snapped shut. You have proven that as well.



Insincerity will always do that sort of thing especially with the unborn of God. Ergo, I don't believe you.

Sorry.

 

[God's Truth]

Pentecost = 47 verses
Samaria and Eunuch = 37
Saul from 2 chapters = 34
Cornelius = Acts 10-48 Acts 11-14 Acts 15-3 Total = 65

Why so many?

Cornelius is an example of what kind of Gentiles/people who are saved, and how.

Cornelius, before he was saved, he feared God and did what was right.

He also was saved before a water baptism AND got water baptized after he was saved, as we are all to do.

Don't go against the scriptures as Danoh and others do; for they misunderstand about no works to mean 'don't obey'. They misunderstand about Paul when he says 'no works', for Paul is speaking about no purification/ceremonial works.

In addition, don't misunderstand about water baptism. You are right that we are supposed to do it, and Danoh and others here are wrong---but don't stubbornly preach what your church's false doctrines say about water baptism. Water baptism can be done before or after one is saved, and it is supposed to be done.

 

[God's Truth]

It is so pathetically sad that there are those who misunderstand Paul as saying believe and don't obey to get saved!!!

Paul would not ever say such a thing.

We are to obey to get saved, and to stay saved.

We just don't have to do the purification/ceremonial works anymore.

We still have to obey God; we just don't have to get circumcised in the flesh.

 

[Danoh]

Yikes.

Confusion abounds.

:chuckle:

 

[Danoh]

Cornelius is an example of what kind of Gentiles/people who are saved, and how.

Cornelius, before he was saved, he feared God and did what was right.

He also was saved before a water baptism AND got water baptized after he was saved, as we are all to do.

Don't go against the scriptures as Danoh and others do; for they misunderstand about no works to mean 'don't obey'. They misunderstand about Paul when he says 'no works', for Paul is speaking about no purification/ceremonial works.

In addition, don't misunderstand about water baptism. You are right that we are supposed to do it, and Danoh and others here are wrong---but don't stubbornly preach what your church's false doctrines say about water baptism. Water baptism can be done before or after one is saved, and it is supposed to be done.

Nope - that's just YOUR mis-read of where I am coming from.

But Romans 5:6-8.

 

[meshak]

I would suggest to you they are Jesus' word.

Jn. 16:12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

1 Cor. 14:37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. 38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.

I recognize what is of Jesus, friend.

Most of them are of Jesus clearly.

 

[God's Truth]

Nope - that's just YOUR mis-read of where I am coming from.

But Romans 5:6-8.

No. Your mere denial and opinion means nothing.

 

[Danoh]

No. Your mere denial and opinion means nothing.

And I am just fine with your feeling that way, as neither you, nor I, are the issue.

Christ ALONE...is.

Rom. 5:6-8 towards you.

 

[God's Truth]

And I am just fine with your feeling that way, as neither you, nor I, are the issue.

Christ ALONE...is.

Rom. 5:6-8 towards you.

The problem is that you are going against Christ and hindering yourself and others.

 

[turbosixx]

Cornelius is an example of what kind of Gentiles/people who are saved, and how.

Cornelius, before he was saved, he feared God and did what was right.

Cornelius being a God fearing man is true but if you look at the times his conversion was talked about, that isn't what the discussion is about. I suggest you're not taking an objective look at this and are going against the scriptures.

The point of it all is not that he is a God fearing man.