Mean TOL members
- Thread starter Poly
- Start date
I understand that.
But haven't you ever met a person that felt that no one could ever love them? I have.
I have met people that wanted to kill themselves, because they hated themselves, and thought the world would be better without them.
They thought that not only are they unworthy of love, but that no one could ever love them.
Now, how do you think tough love is going to work on a person like that?
Aimiel
Well-known member
Greetings SMELLier (smaller/smellier is there a difference?)
I am altogether as deserving as every other soul who ever lived of judgement. I do, however, have one thing to say, and that is, "I plead The Blood of Jesus." That, alone, is the only difference which has ever allowed anyone to be excused from judgement.
Only in your 'smaller' mind. I have, do and will forgive all those who 'offend' me. Our perceived offenses really add up to nothing in the sight of The Lord, who is so Great, He can put up with all of us, but that doesn't mean that He will allow us into His Home (Heaven).
If you want to talk about 'performance,' then you, then, must also have to reconcile what Jesus meant when He said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." I don't think that your notion that only demons will be damned holds up against that quote, unless you believe that Jesus was preaching to demons that they should go see John the Baptist and get dunked.
I don't hold any sins against anyone else, The Lord will allow their own guilt to fall upon their own head, without the cross being applied to their life. Jesus didn't come to earth for nothing, as your demons have whispered to you.
As do all, but The Lord said that only those that believe upon Him would be saved. You call Him a liar, and that ought not to be so.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Well, I wasn't suggesting that we do so, just that this world might have been a better place if The Word of God were put into practice worldwide. I still believe that one day it will, and that Jesus will reign over this earth for 1,000 years, with a rod of iron.
I still like my example, that of loving all of 'the bretheren' (those who believe and follow Jesus) and exposing the sin of all the others far, far better than the one of self-righteous hypocrites who only attack those who hold sound doctrine and try to make that doctrine known to the lost, only to make their self-righteousness into their god, which is exactly what I see you and far too many others on TOL and other 'Christian' BBS's do. It makes me want to puke. The Lord and I both hate the 'holier-than-thou' attitude, and it is a cancer in 'the body' of Christ. One day that body will mature and begin to walk in a portion of the things that He intended for us, and we will all see our own sinfullness and more closely aspire to His Righteousness, and that is when we will be a far more effective witness to this sinful earth. :thumb:
adajos
New member
Nineveh:
I'm not trying to take sides. I don't pick my position based on what other people support it. I am not here because I want to throw in with beanieboy and attack Poly. I am here because it is sad to see Christians treat nonbelievers like dirt all the while calling it love.
Please see my post addressed to Lucky earlier in this thread to discuss the particulars of what she is doing.
Poly deviates from Christ by only considering those passages of Scripture which depict Christ as harsh. Any time Christ is depicted as loving or kind it automatically is chalked up to the fact that the sinner must have been repentant already. This is simply not true.
Further she deviates from Christ's example by pride. She refuses to even acknowledge the possibility of self-righteousness in herself.
Hey, I agree 100%. I am an orthodox evangelical Christian.
I won't miss sin either. However that doesn't make me eager to gloat over the eternal damnation of others from my nice perch in heaven. Poly has made posts to that effect.
I don't know what Poly's attitude would be. I would hope better than it is now.
Many people have rejected Christ for reasons that have nothing to do with sexual sin. They are equally guilty of "spitting in God's face." Does she slur every unbeliever on this board the way she does beanieboy?
You admit that "you could see it that way." Does that mean you concede the viability of my position?
It doesn't matter how they use those words themself, what matters is how the Christian serves as an ambassador of Christ. Using crude language to offend people you don't know personally is neither righteous nor a good example.
Actually the Pharisees weren't godless. They professed faith in Yahweh.
Secondly everybody from all positions in this discussion have used the Bible to justify their position---you, me, poly, beanie, chileice, everyone. So that's not unique to the Pharisees or to beanie.
The point of the Pharisee comparisons is that the Pharisees were widely believed to be righteous and they also considered themselves above reproach. They were the religious leaders and were learned scholars of the scriptures. They harshly judged others based upon their own rules, while missing the spirit of the law.
beanieboy does not fit that description. He is not a believer. So that means that it's you and I and Poly and Chileice that need to watch ourselves, lest we fail in the same way that they did.
So I'm being self-serving? I'm not offering him justification to continue with sin. I don't compromise my beliefs or make excuses for them so they are less offensive. Treating him like someone made in God's image is not self-serving. What am I gaining from my alleged "self-serving" if that is true?
Look, you claim to be trying to help your neighbor, beanieboy, out of a risky and sinful lifestyle. Tell me, how does making comments about relishing his damnation evidence that you want to help him? Do you see why he might feel like he can do without your kind of "help"?
For example Nineveh, let's say you love to ride four-wheeler ATV's. Further let's say, that I know that statistically speaking, 85% of all four-wheeler riders die or are crippled in accidents. If I told you that statistic, and then say I am eager to see your broken body wrapped around a tree, do you feel like I am trying to help you? Or do you just feel taunted, picked on, and hated?
Now I'm not trying to equate sin with riding ATV's, but I'm trying to illustrate the kind of "help" your ilk seem to be offering to him.
That's the funny thing about this argument...I don't believe anything strange or controversial. I'm a pretty typical evangelical Christian. On most other topics I would probably take similar positions as the rest of you. But on this one, I cannot.
I'm not trying to take sides. I don't pick my position based on what other people support it. I am not here because I want to throw in with beanieboy and attack Poly. I am here because it is sad to see Christians treat nonbelievers like dirt all the while calling it love.
Please see my post addressed to Lucky earlier in this thread to discuss the particulars of what she is doing.
Poly deviates from Christ by only considering those passages of Scripture which depict Christ as harsh. Any time Christ is depicted as loving or kind it automatically is chalked up to the fact that the sinner must have been repentant already. This is simply not true.
Further she deviates from Christ's example by pride. She refuses to even acknowledge the possibility of self-righteousness in herself.
Hey, I agree 100%. I am an orthodox evangelical Christian.
I won't miss sin either. However that doesn't make me eager to gloat over the eternal damnation of others from my nice perch in heaven. Poly has made posts to that effect.
I don't know what Poly's attitude would be. I would hope better than it is now.
Many people have rejected Christ for reasons that have nothing to do with sexual sin. They are equally guilty of "spitting in God's face." Does she slur every unbeliever on this board the way she does beanieboy?
You admit that "you could see it that way." Does that mean you concede the viability of my position?
It doesn't matter how they use those words themself, what matters is how the Christian serves as an ambassador of Christ. Using crude language to offend people you don't know personally is neither righteous nor a good example.
Actually the Pharisees weren't godless. They professed faith in Yahweh.
Secondly everybody from all positions in this discussion have used the Bible to justify their position---you, me, poly, beanie, chileice, everyone. So that's not unique to the Pharisees or to beanie.
The point of the Pharisee comparisons is that the Pharisees were widely believed to be righteous and they also considered themselves above reproach. They were the religious leaders and were learned scholars of the scriptures. They harshly judged others based upon their own rules, while missing the spirit of the law.
beanieboy does not fit that description. He is not a believer. So that means that it's you and I and Poly and Chileice that need to watch ourselves, lest we fail in the same way that they did.
So I'm being self-serving? I'm not offering him justification to continue with sin. I don't compromise my beliefs or make excuses for them so they are less offensive. Treating him like someone made in God's image is not self-serving. What am I gaining from my alleged "self-serving" if that is true?
Look, you claim to be trying to help your neighbor, beanieboy, out of a risky and sinful lifestyle. Tell me, how does making comments about relishing his damnation evidence that you want to help him? Do you see why he might feel like he can do without your kind of "help"?
For example Nineveh, let's say you love to ride four-wheeler ATV's. Further let's say, that I know that statistically speaking, 85% of all four-wheeler riders die or are crippled in accidents. If I told you that statistic, and then say I am eager to see your broken body wrapped around a tree, do you feel like I am trying to help you? Or do you just feel taunted, picked on, and hated?
Now I'm not trying to equate sin with riding ATV's, but I'm trying to illustrate the kind of "help" your ilk seem to be offering to him.
That's the funny thing about this argument...I don't believe anything strange or controversial. I'm a pretty typical evangelical Christian. On most other topics I would probably take similar positions as the rest of you. But on this one, I cannot.
the Sibbie
New member
Yes.
There are many people that struggle with feelings like that whether they are Christians or not. Some attempt to carry through with it and are successful, while others just dwell on those negative thoughts.
I'd say in a situation like that, strong rebuke would be inappropriate. But not taking some sort of action to correct the problem would be worse. I'd try to find out the root of the problem, if possible. Then try to firgure out ways to deal with that issue. I'm not sure what all causes feelings like that, but I'm guessing a bad family situation, drugs, physical abuse are a few reasons. Or a person could have great parents but tends to be hard on themself, which potentially is related to their personality and the way they learned to deal with things. Just like some people are really good at deceiving and others are not.
Different situations call for different ways of rebuking and teaching. We have witnessed to you over and over yet you continue to reject Christ, and deny that your "deathstyle" (if I may borrow the term) is wrong, but you are always using His word to try and back up your stance, which is more offensive than just admitting that you don't believe Him. Mostly, after you've rejected so much we rebuke for the sake of others who may become convinced that living a life like your's is alright (along with that teenie-tiny glimmer of hope that you will clearly see God's truth and repent).
I'm a little disappointed that you only responded to just that one part. My main point is that you have it backwords. God wants us to be broken down (humbled), before we can be made new. Do you understand that and just deny it? Or do you not see how that is possible?
Are you trying to tell us that is the way you feel?
Greetings AIM meal
Yeah, yeah, yeah...YOU ACTIVATED GOD. God could not do ANYTHING for you UNTIL you MADE YOUR PLEA.
What a bunch of nonsense.
What? The only difference between you and beanieboy IS YOUR WORKS based GOD ACTIVATION???? Puhleese. What kind of idiocy is this?
quote from smaller
For example you just finished telling BEANIEBOY this "Those who can't forgive also can't be forgiven." and of course we already KNOW you do not forgive SIN unless HE REPENTS so you are STUCK with NON FORGIVENESS.
You do BUT GOD DOES NOT???
Oh, I forgot. YOU are more forgiving than the ETERNALLY MERCIFUL GOD!
Really you are quite twisted to me AIM meal with this kind of garbage.
Oh, so after YOU ACTIVATED AND PLEADED the blood then YOU MUST DO MORE to GAIN ENTRY TO HEAVEN????
This should be a laugher...
quote from smaller:
Your demon, I mean, er, ah, god's doctrines will NOT ALLOW forgiveness without PERFORMANCE.
Well we certainly know that YOU BELIEVE. You believe that GOD FORGIVES NO ONE unless they ACT in their own behalfs, and that YOU YOU YOU forgive others of ALL their offences BUT GOD DOES NOT...and that BY YOUR WORKS you gain ENTRANCE INTO HIS HOME????
You are a sick and demented CONDEMNER OF THE MAJORITY OF MANKIND. This is all that is apparent to me. You FORGIVE NO ONE unless they WORK for it, and I am SURE that "forgiveness" would be both marginal and conditional as well. OH, your GOD is the SAME WAY. Imagine that.
You have enough on your plate for this one already. I'm still waiting for that ONE SINGLE NAMED PERSON who is said to be SLATED TO BURN IN FIRE FOREVER for you OH SO VITAL doctrine.
Of course there is NO SUCH EXAMPLE GIVEN in the entire text...yet YOU insist that this is the fate of NEARLY ALL.
More baloney dreamt up nonsense. One should take the ETERNAL DESTINY OF ANOTHER PERSON A LITTLE MORE SERIOUSLY than this junk you put out.
quote from smaller:
So you see YOU MUST hold NEARLY ALL peoples SINS AGAINST THEM and then you yourself FALL because YOU CANNOT hold sins against ANOTHER without HOLDING YOUR OWN against YOURSELF.
Yeah, I know...YOU are more forgiving THAN GOD. You know you must go here because I JUST GAVE THE TEXT that SAYS YOU MUST or YOU ARE NOT FORGIVEN...so you COUGH UP your O so righteous FORGIVENESS ...
But GOD on the otherhand is not NEARLY as forgiving as YOU.
What a piece of work you are.
Uh huh. I see a trumpt up bunch of I AM HOLIER THAN GOD gospel from you that's for sure.
AIM meal FORGIVES ALL,
But GOD on the other hand DOES NOT...
go figure...Oh, I guess this LET'S AIM meal OFF THE HOOK right???
go figure...
You know some of you so called "christians" have some pretty bizarre beliefs.
quote from smaller
There really is NO WAY OUT since YOU presumably have SINS that you DO NOT WANT held against YOU???
Well you see you have put yourself into an interesting little corner now havn't you? On the one hand YOU FORGIVE ALL but GOD DOES NOT.
NOW if you conceed that GOD MAY ACTUALLY FORGIVE OTHERS you will LOOSE YOUR BASIS to ETERNALLY BURN THEM...
I really LOVE THE WORD. It sorts out this kind of GARBAGE. It is like AN IRON ROD to LIARS.
God called HIMSELF the SAVIOUR OF ALL.
It is YOU who who denies this. Kinda like the Judas of our day.
Yeah, that LOVE than condemns OTHERS to BURN IN HELL FOREVER....lol on that one pal.
If GOD DEMANDED JUSTICE you should be the first on the list to taste a little of YOUR OWN MEASURE to others. I believe a BRIEF DIP IN THE LAKE OF FIRE would PUT THAT GARBAGE out of your hands in a hurry because THIS IS WHAT YOU MEASURE TO OTHERS AND THIS IS WHAT WILL BE MEASURED TO YOU.
There is no way TO MEASURE YOURSELF OUT AND OTHERS IN...
Therefore YOU should burn in the SAME WAY.
Ah well. God'll get you rounded out one of these days. The more you walk the deeper you step into your own MUCK.
go figure...
smaller
Yeah, yeah, yeah...YOU ACTIVATED GOD. God could not do ANYTHING for you UNTIL you MADE YOUR PLEA.
What a bunch of nonsense.
What? The only difference between you and beanieboy IS YOUR WORKS based GOD ACTIVATION???? Puhleese. What kind of idiocy is this?
quote from smaller
For example you just finished telling BEANIEBOY this "Those who can't forgive also can't be forgiven." and of course we already KNOW you do not forgive SIN unless HE REPENTS so you are STUCK with NON FORGIVENESS.
You do BUT GOD DOES NOT???
Oh, I forgot. YOU are more forgiving than the ETERNALLY MERCIFUL GOD!
Really you are quite twisted to me AIM meal with this kind of garbage.
Oh, so after YOU ACTIVATED AND PLEADED the blood then YOU MUST DO MORE to GAIN ENTRY TO HEAVEN????
This should be a laugher...
quote from smaller:
Your demon, I mean, er, ah, god's doctrines will NOT ALLOW forgiveness without PERFORMANCE.
Well we certainly know that YOU BELIEVE. You believe that GOD FORGIVES NO ONE unless they ACT in their own behalfs, and that YOU YOU YOU forgive others of ALL their offences BUT GOD DOES NOT...and that BY YOUR WORKS you gain ENTRANCE INTO HIS HOME????
You are a sick and demented CONDEMNER OF THE MAJORITY OF MANKIND. This is all that is apparent to me. You FORGIVE NO ONE unless they WORK for it, and I am SURE that "forgiveness" would be both marginal and conditional as well. OH, your GOD is the SAME WAY. Imagine that.
You have enough on your plate for this one already. I'm still waiting for that ONE SINGLE NAMED PERSON who is said to be SLATED TO BURN IN FIRE FOREVER for you OH SO VITAL doctrine.
Of course there is NO SUCH EXAMPLE GIVEN in the entire text...yet YOU insist that this is the fate of NEARLY ALL.
More baloney dreamt up nonsense. One should take the ETERNAL DESTINY OF ANOTHER PERSON A LITTLE MORE SERIOUSLY than this junk you put out.
quote from smaller:
So you see YOU MUST hold NEARLY ALL peoples SINS AGAINST THEM and then you yourself FALL because YOU CANNOT hold sins against ANOTHER without HOLDING YOUR OWN against YOURSELF.
Yeah, I know...YOU are more forgiving THAN GOD. You know you must go here because I JUST GAVE THE TEXT that SAYS YOU MUST or YOU ARE NOT FORGIVEN...so you COUGH UP your O so righteous FORGIVENESS ...
But GOD on the otherhand is not NEARLY as forgiving as YOU.
What a piece of work you are.
Uh huh. I see a trumpt up bunch of I AM HOLIER THAN GOD gospel from you that's for sure.
AIM meal FORGIVES ALL,
But GOD on the other hand DOES NOT...
go figure...Oh, I guess this LET'S AIM meal OFF THE HOOK right???
go figure...
You know some of you so called "christians" have some pretty bizarre beliefs.
quote from smaller
There really is NO WAY OUT since YOU presumably have SINS that you DO NOT WANT held against YOU???
Well you see you have put yourself into an interesting little corner now havn't you? On the one hand YOU FORGIVE ALL but GOD DOES NOT.
NOW if you conceed that GOD MAY ACTUALLY FORGIVE OTHERS you will LOOSE YOUR BASIS to ETERNALLY BURN THEM...
I really LOVE THE WORD. It sorts out this kind of GARBAGE. It is like AN IRON ROD to LIARS.
God called HIMSELF the SAVIOUR OF ALL.
It is YOU who who denies this. Kinda like the Judas of our day.
Yeah, that LOVE than condemns OTHERS to BURN IN HELL FOREVER....lol on that one pal.
If GOD DEMANDED JUSTICE you should be the first on the list to taste a little of YOUR OWN MEASURE to others. I believe a BRIEF DIP IN THE LAKE OF FIRE would PUT THAT GARBAGE out of your hands in a hurry because THIS IS WHAT YOU MEASURE TO OTHERS AND THIS IS WHAT WILL BE MEASURED TO YOU.
There is no way TO MEASURE YOURSELF OUT AND OTHERS IN...
Therefore YOU should burn in the SAME WAY.
Ah well. God'll get you rounded out one of these days. The more you walk the deeper you step into your own MUCK.
go figure...
smaller
Chileice
New member
I don't know what Poly's attitude would be. I would hope better than it is now.
Many people have rejected Christ for reasons that have nothing to do with sexual sin. They are equally guilty of "spitting in God's face." Does she slur every unbeliever on this board the way she does beanieboy?
You admit that "you could see it that way." Does that mean you concede the viability of my position?
If that is what is called for. But, seriously, most of the derogatory names like "queer" and "fag" have been adopted in the deathstyle as almost "terms of endearment". If the names that describe their lives disgust them enough, they have the option to change.[/quote]
It doesn't matter how they use those words themself, what matters is how the Christian serves as an ambassador of Christ. Using crude language to offend people you don't know personally is neither righteous nor a good example.
Actually the Pharisees weren't godless. They professed faith in Yahweh.
Secondly everybody from all positions in this discussion have used the Bible to justify their position---you, me, poly, beanie, chileice, everyone. So that's not unique to the Pharisees or to beanie.
The point of the Pharisee comparisons is that the Pharisees were widely believed to be righteous and they also considered themselves above reproach. They were the religious leaders and were learned scholars of the scriptures. They harshly judged others based upon their own rules, while missing the spirit of the law.
beanieboy does not fit that description. He is not a believer. So that means that it's you and I and Poly and Chileice that need to watch ourselves, lest we fail in the same way that they did.
I'm human, but I don't see how trying to get my neighbor out of a deathstyle that has already claimed 420,000 and counting, leads to disease, and shortens his life expectancy self serving.
I consider offering him justification to continue in his deathstyle so one may have the feeling of "defending the down trodden" or "championing the underdog" to be far more self serving than offering him the Gospel.[/quote]
So I'm being self-serving? I'm not offering him justification to continue with sin. I don't compromise my beliefs or make excuses for them so they are less offensive. Treating him like someone made in God's image is not self-serving. What am I gaining from my alleged "self-serving" if that is true?
Look, you claim to be trying to help your neighbor, beanieboy, out of a risky and sinful lifestyle. Tell me, how does making comments about relishing his damnation evidence that you want to help him? Do you see why he might feel like he can do without your kind of "help"?
For example Nineveh, let's say you love to ride four-wheeler ATV's. Further let's say, that I know that statistically speaking, 85% of all four-wheeler riders die or are crippled in accidents. If I told you that statistic, and then say I am eager to see your broken body wrapped around a tree, do you feel like I am trying to help you? Or do you just feel taunted, picked on, and hated?
Now I'm not trying to equate sin with riding ATV's, but I'm trying to illustrate the kind of "help" your ilk seem to be offering to him.
That's the funny thing about this argument...I don't believe anything strange or controversial. I'm a pretty typical evangelical Christian. On most other topics I would probably take similar positions as the rest of you. But on this one, I cannot. [/QUOTE]
You did an amazing job of responding to that rathe prickly post. I congratulate you for your attitude and your words. I am glad to know that not all Christians have been duped by this "hate is love" lie. Hang in there adajos, you are one of the good ones. May God bless you and all of us who love the Lord and the lost world.
Yet, when being called on only using that approach, all I hear are excuses.
In fact, when called self-righteous, the blame is pointed to Christ - Christ is the righteous in me, so I can't possibly be to blame.
One agrues the rebuke is too harsh, or unnecessary, or even unChristlike.
And blaming Christ, they say, "Well, Jesus called the Pharisees snakes and vipers, so..."
No repentance. Just excuses.
Deny it completely.
A christian man I deeply admire said, "We are created in the image of God. Be exceedingly glad in who your soul is."
And I am.
But you seem to suggest that all we are is darkness.
And if you version of God loves darkness, and only created us as sinful, dark people, then I question your God.
In my early 20's, nonchristian people would say how much they hated gay people, and wished that they could line them all up and shoot them. The Christians would say that Lev called for them to be stoned to death. As I struggled with it, the message that I heard was that everyone hated me, including God, simply because I choose to love someone of the same sex.
There was no difference between the nonchristian that wanted to pound you into a bloody pulp, and the christian that wanted to stone you to death.
Now, I am in a very different place, so no, that is not how I feel.
It angers me, because it is a lie. But I have seen the ugliness of Christianity, and the arrogance that no matter what you do or how you act, if you are a christian, God will forgive you.
I don't agree with that. It's a cop out way to behave.
Nineveh
Merely Christian
"I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth."
"Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline."
I can get the idea of your charges from your post, I do not agree with you.
I tend to think Christ was here to call people out of sin, He didn't tolerate it while being kind or harsh. I'd like to ask you though, do you feel harshness is ever useful? Are you privy to the Spirit directing her witness? Do you know how many times she has witnessed to beanieboy? You seem to be assuming quite a bit about Poly.
Is that all it takes? Merely acknowledging a thing might be? "The seriousness of the charge" idea? Regardless of the truth? I don't see Poly as prideful, but then again, you may or may not simply based on the idea it could be. I tend to think a person's fruit is evidence of what sort of tree they are, her fruit isn't prideful nor self righteous. About the only thing it would serve Poly to submit to such introspection is to take her out of the fight, which helps neither her, nor beanie boy. When she starts standing on her own merit apart from Christ, then I will agree with you, but I'm not going to agree she needs medicated for an illness she doesn't show symptoms for. Doing such would make her less compelled to heed my judgements when they are serious. I expect no less from my brothers in Christ personally, do you?
Gloat? Nope, I haven't seen that in her post either.
Oh c'mon now, you aren't shy about making assumptions. What do you think Poly's attitude would be if beanieboy repented?
She is not one tolerant towards sin, no. Perhaps you should watch her in action a little more before passing judgements against her.
Anything is possible, but compared against reality you have two choices, change reality to fit your beliefs or change your beliefs to fit reality. What I am agreeing to is, yes, you could see it that way.
Calling a sin by it's name makes everything very plain and simple to understand. "Pile of vomit" is pretty discriptive of the homosexual deathstyle, wouldn't you agree? I really need to ask you, have you seen anyone judge beanieboy's slurs? I haven't. I think his misjudgements are rooted in his perverse deathstyle, so in that regard I redress him, but from the "Poly stop judging" crowd on this thread, there has been only silence. Why? It's not like those calling for Poly to stop judging aren't judging something, so why not direct it at the person who is in danger of hell instead of the person who uses harsh language we may not approve of?
They professed, but did not act. Isn't that what Jesus griped to them about? I see Poly doing, not not doing what the God she professes commands.
Misuse to justify sin is. The Law condemns sin, it doesn't justify it.
And there we have it, "upon their own rules". Beanieboy is the one with "his own rules", all Poly has is the Law to use as her "rules" for judgement.
You mean likesaying we follow Christ, then standing in the way of those who preach the Gospel because it doesn't suit our taste?
I didn't accuse you, so it's odd you take offense. However, on this thread, how much time have you spent sharing the Gospel with beanieboy compared to condemning Poly's witness?
I wasn't aware I said I would "relish" those who choose damnation being sent to hell. I will be glad to see their evil go, won't you? I haven't even used the terminology that has you upset at Poly, I tend to think you may not have even noticed what exactly I have said to him, yet I have now garnered your ire? Interesting judgement on your part.
If one of those "judge not" Christians had labeled my sin, perhaps I wouldn't have had so many to repent of.
I don't see the Gospel being preached to beanieboy at all from your "ilk". I guess this boils down to an issue of priorities.
Why does sodomy seem to be the one sin that can infiltrate the church unopposed? Even invited into the pulpit...
adajos
New member
Chileice, check your private messages box.
Smaller:
You overuse caps big time!! Every one of your posts is inundated in caps which makes them more difficult to read, so I usually skip over them. Also you use them so much that the impact of the things you want to emphasize is lost because you emphasize so many phrases.
Might I suggest italics instead, and use them in moderation? Keep in mind that caps = shouting on the internet so it also evokes emotion into your words that you may not be intending.
Smaller:
You overuse caps big time!! Every one of your posts is inundated in caps which makes them more difficult to read, so I usually skip over them. Also you use them so much that the impact of the things you want to emphasize is lost because you emphasize so many phrases.
Might I suggest italics instead, and use them in moderation? Keep in mind that caps = shouting on the internet so it also evokes emotion into your words that you may not be intending.
Nin - You act as though I owe something to Poly.
This is between me and God.
And not that I should repent to Poly.
Poly thinks she is God. But she's not.
Several Christians have pointed out some sinful behavior.
She denies it.
But, how dare Poly be angry with me for relationship or lack of it with God.
And how dare her call herself Christian, and then talk about celebrating my burning in hell. She actually gets excited about it. She offers death threats. She offers the threat of hell.
But nothing else. No love. No hope. No forgiveness.
In fact, she is already excited that I am going to hell, and already convinced that that is where I am headed.
That's just twisted.
This is between me and God.
And not that I should repent to Poly.
Poly thinks she is God. But she's not.
Several Christians have pointed out some sinful behavior.
She denies it.
But, how dare Poly be angry with me for relationship or lack of it with God.
And how dare her call herself Christian, and then talk about celebrating my burning in hell. She actually gets excited about it. She offers death threats. She offers the threat of hell.
But nothing else. No love. No hope. No forgiveness.
In fact, she is already excited that I am going to hell, and already convinced that that is where I am headed.
That's just twisted.
adajos
New member
Nineveh:
....and round and round we go:
So are you suggesting that I am a lukewarm Christian because I disagree with your approach? That's the only sense I can make of that since beanieboy makes no claim to be a Christian.
I notice you didn't address my post directly to show how she wasn't exalting herself. You disagreed without supporting your idea with reasons.
Yes, harshness is useful. Christ clearly was harsh at times. But not to anonymous strangers. He was especially harsh to leaders who were leading people astray and who were being bad examples to their followers.
So when you say Christ never tolerated sin, what do you mean by that? Are you denying that he ever associated with sinners prior to repentance? If you mean Christ never excused sin or implied that it was ok, then I agree with you. But perhaps you mean more than that?
I am familiar with Poly's and beanieboy's history of trading insults, yes. It might be a stretch to call that a "witness", but I'll leave that up to you.
No, that's not all it takes. Acknowledging that she is a Christian but is still capable of committing the sin of self-righteousness. She refused to even recognize the possibility. Do you as well? You say her fruit isn't prideful, and yet you gave no substantive reason as to why you disagreed with me when I claimed she was exalting herself.
You need to read a bit more closely about the "rejoicing" she will do when people are condemned for eternity.
From dictionary.com
I rest my case. Please explain how she is not expressing great pleasure at the misfortune of others.
I don't think I have made any assumptions that were out of line.
I hope she would be glad.
I've said it before, but I'll say it again: Not calling people foul, offensive names is not equivalent to "tolerating sin".
I didn't realize the name of the sin was "queer" or "fag" or "homo".
I wasn't aware that homosexual activity involved vomitting. If by your statement you mean you are viscerally repulsed by what they do, then I agree. But I don't think visceral repulsion at sinful actions we treat them worse than other sinners.
I am viscerally repulsed at anal sex within a heterosexual marriage as well. So what? Oh yeah, overweight heterosexual married people having sex also repulses me.
I'm going to try this again. beanieboy is not a Christian. I think we all agree on that. Why then should we expect his behavior to be Christian behavior? Would you expect a nonbeliever to judge everything correctly? I sure wouldn't. I expect more from Poly, which is why I take issue with her.
The reason I'm directing things at Poly is because she is pushing him away from the truth of the Gospel with personal attacks.
Actually they did act. All the time. It's just that their actions were the wrong actions. They condemned and judged incessantly without loving. Jesus was upset with their wrong actions as well as their inaction on the important things.
In fact, sometimes they did the right actions. In the parable of the Widow's mite, the hypocrite gaves tons of money to God. It was his motivations, his heart, that were wrong. The Pharisees appeared righteous from the outside, but on the inside they were rotten. That's why Christ called them "whitewashed walls".
If you don't look righteous on the outside, then a comparison to a Pharisee is a bad comparison.
Of course "upon their own rules" was intended to get at the incessant rules about how if we don't call people foul names we don't really love them.
Look, if that's what I've been doing, then may God truly forgive me and may beanieboy know Christ personally. However, I think I've been trying to prevent pointless harm be done to an unbeliever by getting a wrong idea of how Christians ought to act.
beanie knows the Gospel message already. I decided to try a more action-oriented strategy in witnessing, namely by caring when he is abused.
Have I ever anywhere in this thread claimed that Christians shouldn't judge. Is not calling him a "queer" equivalent to not judging?
Not all witnesses must begin directly with a gospel presentation, especially when the nonbeliever is already familiar. Sometimes it begins with standing up for what's right.
And obviously you haven't read Chileice's posts to beanieboy either.
See, I don't think you're reading what I've written. This is a blatant strawman. I have never denied it's a sin, I have never stated that we shouldn't oppose it. It is a sin. We ought to inform sinners of that truth. It's how we do it, and the attitude with which we do it that concerns me.
....and round and round we go:
So are you suggesting that I am a lukewarm Christian because I disagree with your approach? That's the only sense I can make of that since beanieboy makes no claim to be a Christian.
I notice you didn't address my post directly to show how she wasn't exalting herself. You disagreed without supporting your idea with reasons.
Yes, harshness is useful. Christ clearly was harsh at times. But not to anonymous strangers. He was especially harsh to leaders who were leading people astray and who were being bad examples to their followers.
So when you say Christ never tolerated sin, what do you mean by that? Are you denying that he ever associated with sinners prior to repentance? If you mean Christ never excused sin or implied that it was ok, then I agree with you. But perhaps you mean more than that?
I am familiar with Poly's and beanieboy's history of trading insults, yes. It might be a stretch to call that a "witness", but I'll leave that up to you.
No, that's not all it takes. Acknowledging that she is a Christian but is still capable of committing the sin of self-righteousness. She refused to even recognize the possibility. Do you as well? You say her fruit isn't prideful, and yet you gave no substantive reason as to why you disagreed with me when I claimed she was exalting herself.
You need to read a bit more closely about the "rejoicing" she will do when people are condemned for eternity.
From dictionary.com
I rest my case. Please explain how she is not expressing great pleasure at the misfortune of others.
I don't think I have made any assumptions that were out of line.
I hope she would be glad.
I've said it before, but I'll say it again: Not calling people foul, offensive names is not equivalent to "tolerating sin".
I didn't realize the name of the sin was "queer" or "fag" or "homo".
I wasn't aware that homosexual activity involved vomitting. If by your statement you mean you are viscerally repulsed by what they do, then I agree. But I don't think visceral repulsion at sinful actions we treat them worse than other sinners.
I am viscerally repulsed at anal sex within a heterosexual marriage as well. So what? Oh yeah, overweight heterosexual married people having sex also repulses me.
I'm going to try this again. beanieboy is not a Christian. I think we all agree on that. Why then should we expect his behavior to be Christian behavior? Would you expect a nonbeliever to judge everything correctly? I sure wouldn't. I expect more from Poly, which is why I take issue with her.
The reason I'm directing things at Poly is because she is pushing him away from the truth of the Gospel with personal attacks.
Actually they did act. All the time. It's just that their actions were the wrong actions. They condemned and judged incessantly without loving. Jesus was upset with their wrong actions as well as their inaction on the important things.
In fact, sometimes they did the right actions. In the parable of the Widow's mite, the hypocrite gaves tons of money to God. It was his motivations, his heart, that were wrong. The Pharisees appeared righteous from the outside, but on the inside they were rotten. That's why Christ called them "whitewashed walls".
If you don't look righteous on the outside, then a comparison to a Pharisee is a bad comparison.
Of course "upon their own rules" was intended to get at the incessant rules about how if we don't call people foul names we don't really love them.
Look, if that's what I've been doing, then may God truly forgive me and may beanieboy know Christ personally. However, I think I've been trying to prevent pointless harm be done to an unbeliever by getting a wrong idea of how Christians ought to act.
beanie knows the Gospel message already. I decided to try a more action-oriented strategy in witnessing, namely by caring when he is abused.
Have I ever anywhere in this thread claimed that Christians shouldn't judge. Is not calling him a "queer" equivalent to not judging?
Not all witnesses must begin directly with a gospel presentation, especially when the nonbeliever is already familiar. Sometimes it begins with standing up for what's right.
And obviously you haven't read Chileice's posts to beanieboy either.
See, I don't think you're reading what I've written. This is a blatant strawman. I have never denied it's a sin, I have never stated that we shouldn't oppose it. It is a sin. We ought to inform sinners of that truth. It's how we do it, and the attitude with which we do it that concerns me.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Howdy, SMELLier!!!
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Those that never seek, ask or knock will never find Him.
I'm sorry that you don't understand The Truth of The Gospel, regarding how God operates, and what He requires of His Servants, but you can't keep bowing down to your 'knowledge' (foolish notions, really) and expect to be rewarded by The Lord Who has given you His Word that you continually ignore, deny and call lies.
Well, actually, Jesus asked us who should be rewarded, the one that says, "I will," and doesn't, or the one that says, "No," but does his master's will, anyway. I believe that Beanieboy will enter into Heaven way before you; if, indeed, you have faith in The Lord, which seems to be in some very serious doubt.
He is The One Who decides whom He will forgive, and not you or I; and He has said that it will be those who believe that He is, that He is A Rewarder and also seek for Him with all of their heart. He did not say, "Ollie ollie oxen free," as you presume.
Could it be, Satan? The preaching of The Gospel is, to them that are hellbound, foolishness.
I don't do anything to 'gain entry,' since it is His Free Gift. All I have to do is to accept it. If I refuse, He will not force it on me. That would be Satan's character trait, bullying. God is A Perfect Gentleman.
I do not have the ability or the right to forgive all men for all sin, as you presume to do in God's place. I forgive so that I can be forgiven, but don't believe that because I don't consider someone's sin that it is blotted out. It's not that I have the sin held against everyone (I don't) but their sin is on their account, and God will not blot out anyone's sin without The Blood of Jesus. If they refuse The Son, then The Father will refuse them.
Yeah, I beleive that The Lord is pretty tolerant to allow people like you to mis-represent His Word. If I were God, you'd have gotten an attitude adjustment from a lightning bolt a long time ago.
Why, because you have 'reasoned' so in your perverted mindset? God cannot forgive sin without The Blood of The Lamb being applied to their life. That doesn't happen to every soul. The Gift of God is only acceped by believers. Un-believers will perish. Thinking otherwise is just ludicrous.
I wish you would prayerfully consider your attitude and mindset, and that you might be dead wrong on this issue, and ask The Lord to show you The Truth.
Yes, just like the IRS is the collector of all Federal Income Taxes, here in the USA. Many people don't pay a dime, simply because their lawyers are smart enough to find 'legal' loopholes. If we have 'hired' a smart enough Lawyer when we get to Heaven, He will be able to get us off of our Second Death Sentence. If we never hire Him, we will be charged with each and every sin.
God has said, "Whosoever will..." and not, "Each and every soul..." Go figure. Go figure that you are dead wrong and have mis-applied scriptures and mis-understood the Word of Truth for far too long. Go figure that you need to repent.
the Sibbie
New member
It's important that as we teach people right, we also teach what is wrong. The more hard-hearted a person is, the stronger the rebuke. The more reasonable and open a person is to God's Word the less rigorous we need to be get the truth across. Think about this...if a parent has two children and one is almost always disobeying and the other is mainly obedient, which one should the parent discipline more? Which one of those do you think will receive a harsher punishment?
So you deny that repentance is necessary? Well, then by God's Word alone you can consider yourself condemned. Just as all of us were once condemned before we accepted Christ. :nono: John 3:16-18
I don't disagree with that.
Who is "we"?
Now I just think you are being smart. We can choose to love God and His truth, choose to accept some and reject the rest, or deny God completely.
Maybe you should have been figuring out why God's abhors homosexuality instead of focusing on why people hate you. Your battle is ultimately with God, we are just His servants in war and in peace.
What is the lie that angers you? Suicidal feelings or Christianity?
Sadly some people abuse Christianity. I don't try to use Christ as an excuse for my sin, but love Him so I desire to avoid that which He calls a sin (and like to encourage and teach others to do the same). Christ also told sinners to "go and sin no more" or as Romans 6:15 says "What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!"