ECT Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation

Child of God

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Jesus said he DID NOT lose one that God gave him, AND, he will raise them---at the resurrection of the dead.
We all too have to be saved and then will get raised from the dead at the resurrection.
John 18:9 This happened so that the words he had spoken would be fulfilled: "I have not lost one of those you gave me."



Well, this is a difficult scripture for some. Some believe that Jesus was speaking of the time of the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, and some say it is at the end of the world. So what is your point?

God doesn’t care if you call yourself blood related to Abraham, or if you call yourself an Israelite, see See John 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God..
So explain to me your beliefs with that knowledge.

No way did Jesus change. The plan was made before the beginning of the world.
1 Corinthians 2

God’s Wisdom Revealed by the Spirit

6We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9However, as it is written:

“What no eye has seen,

what no ear has heard,

and what no human mind has conceived” —

the things God has prepared for those who love him—

10these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.
1 Peter 1:20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
2 Timothy 1:9 He has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.
Ephesians 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love

You are the one going against me.
You are the one who says all Jews will be saved and that Gentiles and Jews aren’t treated the same and saved the same way and same time.

How many times do you have to be told that what he said was to the remnant Jews first, and then what he said was to all after he was crucified?
What Jesus said when he walked the earth is the same one and only message by the one and only Lord to all, just Jews FIRST and THEN GENTILES.

You are long worded.
You have little substance in your long words.

I am pretty sure the Bible makes reference to those of long words, without substance.

Pick a topic we will dicuss that topic.

You really make me think of,

2Pe 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
2Pe 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.


When I read your Words, I think of the Above.
 

God's Truth

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No other nation on Earth is called that.
Yes, He does.

Multiple times throughout Scripture God tells His people that they will be His people and He will be their God.

He doesn't make this promise to ANY OTHER NATION.
So what?
Jews who rejected His son are not His people.
All who come to Him through Jesus are His people.
When Jesus had his earthly ministry, they had to go through Jesus to remain God’s.
God doesn’t care anymore about who is blood related to Abraham.
Since Jesus is the blood descendant promise, it only matters who is blood related to Jesus.
WHEN!? You aren't giving me a specific point in time!
I gave you scripture where Jesus said it was too late now. You don ‘t think what Jesus says is enough, then that is not my problem.
Why? Can you not explain your position in simple terms? You can only explain it in the abstract?

WHEN WERE THEY CUT OFF!?

Was it before Christ was born?

Was it after? If so, at what point after Christ's birth were the unbelieving Jews cut off?

Was it when He first started doing miracles? Was it when Judas betrayed Him?

WHEN?!
Why would it be when he first started doing miracles? Why would it be when Judas betrayed him?
State your case.
I gave you scriptures from the Old Testament where it was prophesied that some Jews would be cut off.
Jesus came and during his earthly ministry he said it was too late for them.
And yet, even 28 years later, when Paul was writing Romans, they STILL had not been grafted back in again. Why not?
ALL JEWS aren’t going to be grafted back in; only the Jews who stopped disbelieving.
I gave you scriptures that show Jews being grafted back in, after they believed and repented.
Cornelius was saved after Paul, so that fits my position better than it does yours.
Can you give scriptural support for that?
In addition, show where it had anything to do with Paul.
That’s your response to what I say doesn’t help in our discussion.
This is PETER speaking about what the old testament prophets said:

Acts 10:43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."
Did you notice that there's no mention of repentance? No mention of following a law of any sort? Just "believe in Him"?
Jesus wouldn’t even have started his earthly ministry until the people repented of their sins. John the baptizer prepared the way.
Again, anything after Paul's conversion fits my position better than it does yours.
Paul was saved by what Jesus and the disciples before him preached.
Paul even went to Peter and the others to see if they preached the same.
Well, no, it wasn't prophesied.

You CANNOT point to any single scripture in the Old Testament that says that Gentiles would be saved.
I gave you many scriptures.
 

God's Truth

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Try again.
So what? Paul quoted lots of Old Testament passages.
Sorry, but that doesn't mean that it was prophesied that Gentiles would be saved. It just doesn't.
Mere denial means nothing in anyone’s favor.
Sorry, but that doesn't say that Gentiles will bee saved..
Yes it does.
New testament verses are not "prophecy."
New Testament has Old Testament prophecies fulfilled.
So far, your 0 for 4 as far as old testament verses go that support your position.

Would you like to try again?

Or have you been convinced yet that your position is wrong, and you should reconsider it.
ALL NATIONS, not just two or 12---ALL NATIONS.
Yes, Christ came to take away the sin of the world.
I proved with scripture that the Gentiles will be saved.
And?
But you haven't answered my question.

When were they cut off?
Too late for what?
They were cut off and bound to the place of the Gentiles.
To be grafted back in again? That makes it seem like their being cut off is final, which Paul preaches against...
How do you ever get that it is too late for them to be grafted back in when I have been proving it to you that they can just as the Gentiles can?
To not be cut off? So you're saying that they still hadn't been cut off by that point in time? That they were cut off afterwards? That fits MY position.
What?
Having things hidden from one's eyes is not cutting them off.
It is.
If that is what you're asserting, then you need to provide evidence for that assertion.
So what? that doesn't mean they're cut off...
How many times did God blind or deafen (literally or figuratively) a person or group of people in scripture without needing to cut them off?

Do you even know what it means to "cut off" something?
Denying it won't help your position.

WHEN did God cut off the Jews?
Jesus says NOW it is hidden from you.
So at that point? Or at some other point?
Only with Israel.
Well, no, it was based on the act of cutting off the flesh, both figuratively and literally.
And where does the Bible say this?
It is why there was a new covenant with Jesus Christ.
And yet, not a one of them have answered my question to you about WHEN God cut off the Jews.

So how about it, GT, When did God cut off the Jews?
Take it up with Jesus, since the scriptures he gave about it isn’t enough for you.
 

God's Truth

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You are long worded.
No, I am not.
You have little substance in your long words.
You are untruthful.
I am pretty sure the Bible makes reference to those of long words, without substance.
Yeah, and they say people like you not to talk to.
Pick a topic we will dicuss that topic.

You really make me think of,

2Pe 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
2Pe 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.


When I read your Words, I think of the Above.

You are lost.
 

ttruscott

Active member
“And we know that God causes everything to work together
for the good of those who love God and are called
according to his purpose for them.” (Romans 8:28)

These were predestined, called, justified, and glorified (8:29-30).

Cause and effect? How can our love cause salvation when we were promised salvation before we loved by our election to be HIS heavenly Bride? How can our love cause salvation when salvation is the free gift of GOD by grace thru faith, not love?

Perhaps these verses need another scrutiny for their meaning?
 

God's Truth

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This is the point!

You randomly use scripture instead of understanding the big picture.

You TRY to FORCE your story on the Bible instead of understanding it the way is really is.

That's your opinion. That is why we are to debate instead of you just giving your opinion about my beliefs. Here is a hint for you: saying I don't understand, and saying I randomly use scripture, and trying to force anything---is NOT true and your defense is to insult---which is no defense of the truth.

It is unbelievable when one tries to say someone is randomly using scriptures. You can't do that. Jesus says you can't put any scripture aside. That is what you do when you say such things to me.
 

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That's your opinion. That is why we are to debate instead of you just giving your opinion about my beliefs.
You have an opinion (I called it your "story") that you are misusing scripture to try to support. That you cannot see this is obvious.

Here is a hint for you: saying I don't understand, and saying I randomly use scripture, and trying to force anything---is NOT true and your defense is to insult---which is no defense of the truth.
Here is a hint for you: You don't understand and telling you that insults you because you cannot see it any other way.

It is unbelievable when one tries to say someone is randomly using scriptures. You can't do that. Jesus says you can't put any scripture aside. That is what you do when you say such things to me.
Blah... blah... blah...

God revealed new things to Paul (that's what revelation means). That you reject these things and try to mash them together is your own personal problem. You're not alone. There are many Bible masher/blenders here on TOL.
 

God's Truth

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You have an opinion (I called it your "story") that you are misusing scripture to try to support. That you cannot see this is obvious.


Here is a hint for you: You don't understand and telling you that insults you because you cannot see it any other way.


Blah... blah... blah...

God revealed new things to Paul (that's what revelation means). That you reject these things and try to mash them together is your own personal problem. You're not alone. There are many Bible masher/blenders here on TOL.

Opinion, insults, putting scripture aside...will never ever be a defense.

You bring up Paul, as if anyone has to defend him to me.

Paul had the truth revealed to him just as the other disciples.

Paul, a toughie, someone who had people beat and put in prison, was himself strong and tough enough to spread the gospel and be beat and put in prison.
 

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Prove it with scripture. A person can't prove it with scripture while saying the scriptures are random.

God gave Paul a gospel.... that's scripture.

THREE times Paul calls it "MY GOSPEL". If there was just "one gospel", as you try to say, he could NOT say that. [I know you're going to go off on your illogical excuses for that].

I still laugh when I recall you saying "the good news gospel".
 

God's Truth

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I still laugh when I recall you saying "the good news gospel".

You said Paul was the only one who taught the good news, and that it is a different one from the one Jesus taught while he walked the earth!

Now that is funny.

Jesus IS the good news.



gos·pel
/ˈɡäspəl/

noun
  1. 1.
    the teaching or revelation of Christ.
    "it is the Church's mission to preach the gospel"
    Similar:
    Christian teaching
    Christ's teaching
    the life of Christ
    the word of God
    the good news
    Christian doctrine
    the New Testament
  2. 2.
    the record of Jesus' life and teaching in the first four books of the New Testament.
 

God's Truth

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Jesus is the good news and taught about himself.

You think a lot of things are funny and they are not.

Just like you have in your signature that Squeaky is dumb because he put 'your' instead of 'you're'. Out of all the dumb things Squeaky says, you put that?
 
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God's Truth

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God gave Paul a gospel.... that's scripture.

THREE times Paul calls it "MY GOSPEL". If there was just "one gospel", as you try to say, he could NOT say that. [I know you're going to go off on your illogical excuses for that].

Paul calls it the GOSPEL OF CHRIST.

Romans 15:19 by the power of signs and wonders, through the power of the Spirit of God. So from Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum, I have fully proclaimed the gospel of Christ.
1 Corinthians 9:12 If others have this right of support from you, shouldn’t we have it all the more? But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ.
2 Corinthians 2:12[ Ministers of the New Covenant ] Now when I went to Troas to preach the gospel of Christ and found that the Lord had opened a door for me,
2 Corinthians 9:13 Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, others will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else.
2 Corinthians 10:14 We are not going too far in our boasting, as would be the case if we had not come to you, for we did get as far as you with the gospel ofChrist.
Galatians 1:7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervertthe gospel of Christ.
Philippians 1:27 [ Life Worthy of the Gospel ] Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in the one Spirit, striving together as one for the faith of the gospel
1 Thessalonians 3:2 We sent Timothy, who is our brother and co-worker in God’s service in spreading the gospel of Christ, to strengthen and encourage you in your faith,


Paul also calls it OUR GOSPEL:

2 Corinthians 4:3 And even if our gospelis veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.

1 Thessalonians 1:5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake.

2 Thessalonians 2:14 He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul AND PETER call it the Gospel of God.

Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God
Romans 15:16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles. He gave me the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
2 Corinthians 11:7 Was it a sin for me to lower myself in order to elevate you by preaching the gospel of God to you free of charge?
1 Thessalonians 2:8 so we cared for you. Because we loved you so much, we were delighted to share with you not only the gospel of God but our lives as well.
1 Thessalonians 2:9 Surely you remember, brothers and sisters, our toil and hardship; we worked night and day in order not to be a burden to anyone while we preached the gospel of God to you.
1 Peter 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
1 Thessalonians 2:2 We had previously suffered and been treated outrageously in Philippi, as you know, but with the help of our God we dared to tell you his gospel in the face of strong opposition.

There is only one Gospel, and it is God's Gospel, the Gospel of Christ, Paul's Gospel, and OUR GOSPEL.
 

God's Truth

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It was God’s Law given to Moses but it was called the Law of Moses---still the Law of God.

Luke 2:22 [ Jesus Presented in the Temple ] When the time came for the purification rites required by theLaw of Moses, Joseph and Mary took him to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord
Luke 24:44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”
John 7:23 Now if a boy can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing a man’s whole body on the Sabbath?
Acts 13:39 Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.
Acts 15:5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.
Acts 15:21 For thelaw of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
Acts 28:23 They arranged to meet Paul on a certain day, and came in even larger numbers to the place where he was staying. He witnessed to them from morning till evening, explaining about the kingdom of God, and from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets he tried to persuade them about Jesus.
1 Corinthians 9:9 For it is written in the Law of Moses: “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.” Is it about oxen that God is concerned?
Hebrews 10:28 Anyone who rejected thelaw of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
 

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You said Paul was the only one who taught the good news, and that it is a different one from the one Jesus taught while he walked the earth!
Why do you lie about what I said?

If Paul taught the "one true gospel", how could Paul claim that his gospel was MY GOSPEL?

Jesus IS the good news.
There are MANY gospels in the Bible. That you cannot even understand something so simple as that "gospel" means "good news" is amazing.

gos·pel
/ˈɡäspəl/

noun
  1. 1.
    the teaching or revelation of Christ.
    "it is the Church's mission to preach the gospel"
    Similar:
    Christian teaching
    Christ's teaching
    the life of Christ
    the word of God
    the good news
    Christian doctrine
    the New Testament
  2. 2.
    the record of Jesus' life and teaching in the first four books of the New Testament.
Found some dictionary that you like?

The BIBLE says that gospel means GOOD NEWS. There are MANY "good news'" in the Bible.

The Bible frequently uses the term "the gospel OF". That simply means the GOOD NEW OF. Like the good news of the kingdom and the good news of the grace of God. Both are based on the Lord Jesus Christ, but both are NOT identical is every way.

It's really too bad that you cannot understand this simple thing.
 

God's Truth

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Why do you lie about what I said?
There is nothing you could do or say to me that would make me a liar.
If Paul taught the "one true gospel", how could Paul claim that his gospel was MY GOSPEL?
Guess what? It is my gospel. Yep that is right, it is my gospel. I believe in that gospel, and I preach that gospel. It is mine.

I gave you scripture where Paul calls it 'my', 'our', 'God's', and 'Jesus'.


There are MANY gospels in the Bible. That you cannot even understand something so simple as that "gospel" means "good news" is amazing.
So you say, there are many gospels, but you laugh when I call it the good news gospel. JESUS is the good news. There aren't many Jesus'.

Found some dictionary that you like?
I picked the first thing that came up.

The BIBLE says that gospel means GOOD NEWS. There are MANY "good news'" in the Bible.
No, there is only one good news, and it is Jesus Christ.

The gospel good news is Jesus Christ.

Mark 1:1 [ John the Baptist Prepares the Way ] The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God,

Acts 5:42 Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Messiah.

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ,they were baptized, both men and women.

Acts 8:35 Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.

Acts 10:36 You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.

Acts 11:20 Some of them, however, men from Cyprus and Cyrene, went to Antioch and began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good news about the Lord Jesus.

Acts 14:15 “Friends, why are you doing this? We too are only human, like you. We are bringing you good news, telling you to turn from these worthless things to the living God, who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and everything in them.

Acts 17:18 A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to debate with him. Some of them asked, “What is this babbler trying to say?” Others remarked, “He seems to be advocating foreign gods.” They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.

Hebrews 4:2 For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed.


There is one gospel good news.
 

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There is nothing you could do or say to me that would make me a liar.
I didn't have to do or say anything. You lied about me.

Guess what? It is my gospel. Yep that is right, it is my gospel. I believe in that gospel, and I preach that gospel. It is mine.

I gave you scripture where Paul calls it 'my', 'our', 'God's', and 'Jesus'.
Peter, John, James... NEVER claimed "my gospel".

There is a REASON that Paul makes that claim.... but you cannot understand.

So you say, there are many gospels, but you laugh when I call it the good news gospel. JESUS is the good news. There aren't many Jesus'.
I do laugh when you write "good news gospel" because it's silly.

GOSPEL MEANS GOOD NEWS.

So "good news gospel" means "good news good news". :french:

I picked the first thing that came up.
So you just believe the first thing that you find on the Internet. No wonder you have problems.

No, there is only one good news, and it is Jesus Christ.
Once AGAIN, your illogical nonsense is fallacious and illogical.

There are MANY GOOD NEWS' associated with the Lord Jesus Christ.

The gospel good news is Jesus Christ.
GOSPEL MEANS GOOD NEWS.

There is one gospel good news.
So you STILL cannot understand that GOSPEL MEANS GOOD NEWS.
 

God's Truth

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I didn't have to do or say anything. You lied about me.
You saying that is not truth.
Peter, John, James... NEVER claimed "my gospel".

There is a REASON that Paul makes that claim.... but you cannot understand.

It is God’s and Jesus’ gospel.
You had it carefully explained to you that Paul calls it ‘my’, ‘ours’, God’s, Jesus’.

I even told you that it is my gospel.

You saying “Peter, John, James, NEVER claimed “my gospel”” So what? They also don’t have as many letters as Paul does. I can hardly believe you say such things.
I do laugh when you write "good news gospel" because it's silly.
What is silly is you saying Jesus taught one to just the Jews, but Paul taught a better one to everyone.
There is only one good news.
I gave you many scriptures and the definition of the dictionary.

GOSPEL MEANS GOOD NEWS.
There. Is. Only. One.
YOU SAY THERE ARE MANY.
The gospel IS THE GOOD NEWS OF JESUS CHRIST.
You say there are many.
There is only one Jesus Christ and it is the gospel about him. He is the good news, the gospel is about him.
So "good news gospel" means "good news good news". file:///C:%5CUsers%5CVictoria%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cm sohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_image001.gif
You are laughing at yourself but don't know it.

You sound utterly confused.

I gave you the dictionary and the Bible definition, but you say Paul has another gospel, another good news.


So you just believe the first thing that you find on the Internet. No wonder you have problems.
You are fighting the definition of a word.
Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
No, there is only one good news, and it is Jesus Christ.
Once AGAIN, your illogical nonsense is fallacious and illogical.

There are MANY GOOD NEWS' associated with the Lord Jesus Christ.

How many times do you have to be told the BIBLE SAYS the GOOD NEW IS JESUS AND THERE IS ONLY ONE JESUS?

So you STILL cannot understand that GOSPEL MEANS GOOD NEWS.
You spent too much time laughing at me when it was you all along.
 
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