elected4ever
New member
No
Just One Gospel?
- Thread starter Clete
- Start date
elected4ever
New member
I have not ignored anything and I am beginning to think that the words of a man is more important to you than the revealed word! You guys are beginning to give me concern about your welfare.Jerry Shugart said:
drbrumley
Well-known member
So now the question becomes why.
Nicodemous should have known God would have saved Gentiles thru Isreal. Why didn't he? I agree that God's plan was to save the world by bringing Gentiles into the fold. But what was expected to happen was Gentiles would be saved thru the nation of Isreal. When Isreal basically said hell with that, Paul clearly states Isreal was cut off. Then God raised Paul as the uncircumsion minister to the Gentiles and the Body of Christ was formed. This was UNKNOWABLE and the MYSTERY. God was forced by Isreals constant rejection to save the Gentiles another way.
Nicodemous should have known God would have saved Gentiles thru Isreal. Why didn't he? I agree that God's plan was to save the world by bringing Gentiles into the fold. But what was expected to happen was Gentiles would be saved thru the nation of Isreal. When Isreal basically said hell with that, Paul clearly states Isreal was cut off. Then God raised Paul as the uncircumsion minister to the Gentiles and the Body of Christ was formed. This was UNKNOWABLE and the MYSTERY. God was forced by Isreals constant rejection to save the Gentiles another way.
Hey Doc and e4e... in case you missed this post....
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19252
Were trying to make TOL more focused. See what ya think. :up:
Love ya guys!
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19252
Were trying to make TOL more focused. See what ya think. :up:
Love ya guys!
They were preaching what Jesus told them to preach, "The Kingdom of God." It was along the same lines as to what John the Baptistwas preaching to the pulic as well. It was, "repent for the Kingdom or God is at hand."
What Jesus and John the Baptist and the disciples preached was the Gospel of Jesus, but not the words of Paul.
What Jesus and John the Baptist and the disciples preached was the Gospel of Jesus, but not the words of Paul.
ApologeticJedi
New member
The blood of Christ is the only thing that ever saved anyone. Such a statement has never been truer. It’s your conclusion that requires more thought.
Abraham may not have known about Christ, his death, his burial, or his resurrection. Abraham knew that God had told him that he would be the father of a nation, and Abraham believed THAT and was saved. That was Abraham’s gospel! Does that mean that Abraham wasn’t saved because his gospel was not based on knowledge of Jesus? - of course not. So while no one in history would be saved if Jesus hadn’t died, that indicates only that it is the means, but not always the method, of everyone in history’s salvation.
Abraham’s gospel was to believe God. Moses gospel was to obey God. Peter’s gospel was that Jesus was the Messiah (his death wasn’t even believed by Peter, let alone preached), and Paul’s gospel has been the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Actually, that God would become a man is absent from Old Testament until the prophet Isaiah. Millions who lived before that time, were never even told that God would come to earth, let alone believed in it. That the Messiah would die really isn’t understood until Daniel (forget Psalms 22 – there’s no indication in there that it is speaking of the Messiah). And I’m not sure I could put my finger on a single passage in the Old Testament that says that the Messiah will rise from the grave (I may be forgetting something I know, but off the top of my head there is no passage that comes to mind).
So it wasn’t just a difficult concept, it was one that God didn’t feel was that important to communicate.
You are going to be one of my favorite people, Jedi.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Apollos,Apollos said:
The Baptist said:
"And I knew Him not,but that He should be made manifest to Israel,therefore am I come baptizing with water"(Jn.1:31).
The Lord Jesus was to be revealed to Israel as the promised Messiah,and the Lord Jesus said that He was that Messiah:
"The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am He"(Jn.4:25,26).
However,after the leaders of Israel plotted His death,He told His disciples not to make Him known (Mt.12:14-16).He then began to speak in parables.
But His message was clear,and that message proclaimed that all who believed the words which His Father told Him to speak would receive eternal life and would not come into judgment:
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment; but is passed from death unto life"(Jn.5:24).
The Jews who believed what He said received eternal life the moment that they believed His words.
However,it was not until Paul was converted that it was revealed how the Lord could save men--"while we were enemies,we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son"(Ro.5:10).
In His grace,--Jerry
”Dispensationalism Made Easy”
http://midacts.net/studies/shugart-dispensationalism_made_easy.html
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HopeofGlory
New member
Jerry Shugart said:
Mar 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Did they not have to endured to the end to receive eternal life?
Craig
What was the content of Jesus' message to the Jews?
What was the content of Jesus' message to the Jews?
Jerry -
You said - "But His message was clear,and that message proclaimed that all who believed the words which His Father told Him to speak would receive eternal life and would not come into judgment..."
So what were the words??? What did Jesus talk about for -3- years?
I guess what I want to know from you is what was the CONTENT of the message... What did Jesus tell them, besides that He was the Messiah ?
Jerry - "The Jews who believed what He said received eternal life the moment that they believed His words."
No one was saved before the cross, but this is not what I want to discuss.
A
What was the content of Jesus' message to the Jews?
Jerry -
You said - "But His message was clear,and that message proclaimed that all who believed the words which His Father told Him to speak would receive eternal life and would not come into judgment..."
So what were the words??? What did Jesus talk about for -3- years?
I guess what I want to know from you is what was the CONTENT of the message... What did Jesus tell them, besides that He was the Messiah ?
Jerry - "The Jews who believed what He said received eternal life the moment that they believed His words."
No one was saved before the cross, but this is not what I want to discuss.
A
Faithfulness was always required from God's people...
Faithfulness was always required from God's people...
Craig -
Of course they did! They had eternal life in prospect of faithfulness. That one passage from John is not the WHOLE of all that was said in reference to obtaining eternal life. Example: See John 3:3f...
A
Faithfulness was always required from God's people...
HopeofGlory said:
Craig -
Of course they did! They had eternal life in prospect of faithfulness. That one passage from John is not the WHOLE of all that was said in reference to obtaining eternal life. Example: See John 3:3f...
A
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The enduring toi the end to be saved is in regard to "temporal" salvation,as the context indicates.HopeofGlory said:
Craig,I have already demonstrated that they already possessed eternal life.I provided the tense in the Greek,and it is the "present" tense.
You just cannot seem to grasp the difference between "present" tense and "future" tense.It is actually a simple concept,but you continue to prove that you cannot understand the difference between the two.
"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And He said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace"(Lk.7:48-50).
Again,the words "hath saved" are in the "present" tense,and not in the "future" tense.
In His grace,--Jerry
Oooops foe me...
Oooops foe me...
Jerry -
I have to agree - there were a few that Jesus did save before the cross by His personal authority while He walked the earth. Unfortunately for us, we will not have the opportunity to have our sins forgiven and to be saved in this fashion. But some of these were told to go and sin no more...
But this is still not what I hope to discuss here at this point in this thread.
I am still hoping that you or some other will tell me what the content of Jesus' message was for the -3- years that He preached here on earth. I just would like to know what other people think Jesus was talking about. Hey, even tell me what John the baptizer was preaching just before Jesus arrived on the scene.
Thanks !
Oooops foe me...
Jerry -
I have to agree - there were a few that Jesus did save before the cross by His personal authority while He walked the earth. Unfortunately for us, we will not have the opportunity to have our sins forgiven and to be saved in this fashion. But some of these were told to go and sin no more...
But this is still not what I hope to discuss here at this point in this thread.
I am still hoping that you or some other will tell me what the content of Jesus' message was for the -3- years that He preached here on earth. I just would like to know what other people think Jesus was talking about. Hey, even tell me what John the baptizer was preaching just before Jesus arrived on the scene.
Thanks !
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Apollos,
You said:
Before the Lord Jesus appeared on the scene John the Baptist was preaching that ”The kingdom of heaven is at hand”(Mt.3:2).
The Jews would have understood that if the kingdom was at hand,then the King also must be at hand.
The Baptist said:
"And I knew Him not,but that He should be made manifest to Israel,therefore am I come baptizing with water"(Jn.1:31).
The Baptist also proclaimed that the Lord Jesus is the “Son of God”:
”And I saw,and bore witness that this is the Son of God”(Jn.1:34).
The Jews would also knew that the words “Son of God” meant that the Lord Jesus was God,as witnessed by the words of the Jews themselves:
” Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God”(Jn.5:18).
After the Baptist was put in prision,the Lord Jesus took up the same message,preaching that the Kingdom of God is at hand.He also said that He was that Messiah:
"The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am He"(Jn.4:25,26).
He also told the Jews that the Lord God had sent Him into the world,and that they should believe Him:
”This is the work of God,that ye believe on Him Whom He hath sent”(Jn.6:29).He said that those who “believeth on Him” would receive eternal life:
” And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day”(Jn.6:40).
The Lord Jesus told the Jews that He was before Abraham:
”Before Abraham was,I am”(Jn.8:58).
By His words the Jews would have known that He was proclaiming Himself to be the Messiah,the Son of the Living God.Combine that with the fact that He was able to perform miracles so the Jews had no excuse whatsoever for their unbelief.
Every thing about the ministry of John the Baptist and of the Lord Jesus pointed to one thing,and that is the fact that it is the Lord Jesus Who is the promised Messiah,the Son of the Living God.
And those who believed this fact were “born of God” at the moment that they believed this fact (Jn.1:12,13—1Jn.5:1-5).They also received eternal life at the moment that they believed (Jn.5:24).
However,after the leaders of Israel plotted His death,He told His disciples not to make Him known (Mt.12:14-16).He then began to speak in parables.He knew that the Jews would be given a second chance to believe after His crucifixion and resurrection,and that is exactly what happened on the day of Pentecost.
In His grace,--Jerry
”Dispensationalism Made Easy”
http://midacts.net/studies/shugart-dispensationalism_made_easy.html
You said:
Before the Lord Jesus appeared on the scene John the Baptist was preaching that ”The kingdom of heaven is at hand”(Mt.3:2).
The Jews would have understood that if the kingdom was at hand,then the King also must be at hand.
The Baptist said:
"And I knew Him not,but that He should be made manifest to Israel,therefore am I come baptizing with water"(Jn.1:31).
The Baptist also proclaimed that the Lord Jesus is the “Son of God”:
”And I saw,and bore witness that this is the Son of God”(Jn.1:34).
The Jews would also knew that the words “Son of God” meant that the Lord Jesus was God,as witnessed by the words of the Jews themselves:
” Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God”(Jn.5:18).
After the Baptist was put in prision,the Lord Jesus took up the same message,preaching that the Kingdom of God is at hand.He also said that He was that Messiah:
"The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am He"(Jn.4:25,26).
He also told the Jews that the Lord God had sent Him into the world,and that they should believe Him:
”This is the work of God,that ye believe on Him Whom He hath sent”(Jn.6:29).He said that those who “believeth on Him” would receive eternal life:
” And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day”(Jn.6:40).
The Lord Jesus told the Jews that He was before Abraham:
”Before Abraham was,I am”(Jn.8:58).
By His words the Jews would have known that He was proclaiming Himself to be the Messiah,the Son of the Living God.Combine that with the fact that He was able to perform miracles so the Jews had no excuse whatsoever for their unbelief.
Every thing about the ministry of John the Baptist and of the Lord Jesus pointed to one thing,and that is the fact that it is the Lord Jesus Who is the promised Messiah,the Son of the Living God.
And those who believed this fact were “born of God” at the moment that they believed this fact (Jn.1:12,13—1Jn.5:1-5).They also received eternal life at the moment that they believed (Jn.5:24).
However,after the leaders of Israel plotted His death,He told His disciples not to make Him known (Mt.12:14-16).He then began to speak in parables.He knew that the Jews would be given a second chance to believe after His crucifixion and resurrection,and that is exactly what happened on the day of Pentecost.
In His grace,--Jerry
”Dispensationalism Made Easy”
http://midacts.net/studies/shugart-dispensationalism_made_easy.html
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Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Thanks,Clete,I really appreciate it!Clete said:
In His grace,--Jerry
”Dispensationalism Made Easy”
http://midacts.net/studies/shugart-dispensationalism_made_easy.html