ECT Judaism thinks the Seed was themselves

Interplanner

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You evade questions and speak in riddles, so it's just as well that you don't.


You're the kind of fool that mocks a telltale Greek expression and is so lazy they won't go find out what the text actually means. You don't even have to know Greek grammar to know that 'kata sarka' is a critical dividing line between everything Paul taught and Judaism. What a crock.
 

SaulToPaul

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You're the kind of fool that mocks a telltale Greek expression and is so lazy they won't go find out what the text actually means. You don't even have to know Greek grammar to know that 'kata sarka' is a critical dividing line between everything Paul taught and Judaism. What a crock.

Huh?
 

Interplanner

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Rather: let Paul explain. he says the Israel he is talking about is "us"--both Jews and Gentiles. Finish the chapter!

Why don't you explain Acts 13:32,33: what ever God promised to the fathers, he fulfilled through the resurrection of Christ? Why don't you bash people with that while you are bashing?
 

Danoh

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While Gen 12 was meant to connect its Seed with the one mentioned in Gen 3, Judaism thought it was referring to them as a people.

Paul cleared that up in Gal 3:16 by saying who was who.

Acts 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

The Spirit through Peter is reminding physical sons of Jacob as a Multiplied Seed that Believing sons of Jacob as a Multiplied Seed are who the One seed was sent unto that through said Believing, Multiplied seed - of Jacob - all the families of the Earth are to be blessed.

But first He must return to turn them away from their iniquities.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

You are the one who confuses what UNBelieving Israel had believed was about them with what was about Believing Israel.

Just as you are the one who confuses what UNBelieving Israel had believed was about them as being what the Dispy asserts about Israel.

As with Romans 4, Paul's argument in Galatians 3 actually shows that UNBelieving Israel's failure under the Law did NOT make their aspect of their Promise - which was 430 years before - of none effect.

Just as Paul asserts in the opening of...

Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
 

1Mind1Spirit

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Acts 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

The Spirit through Peter is reminding physical sons of Jacob as a Multiplied Seed that Believing sons of Jacob as a Multiplied Seed are who the One seed was sent unto that through said Believing, Multiplied seed - of Jacob - all the families of the Earth are to be blessed.

But first He must return to turn them away from their iniquities.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

You are the one who confuses what UNBelieving Israel had believed was about them with what was about Believing Israel.

Just as you are the one who confuses what UNBelieving Israel had believed was about them as being what the Dispy asserts about Israel.

As with Romans 4, Paul's argument in Galatians 3 actually shows that UNBelieving Israel's failure under the Law did NOT make their aspect of their Promise - which was 430 years before - of none effect.

Just as Paul asserts in the opening of...

Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Cool, but Gentiles have the same problem.
 

Interplanner

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Danoh wrote:
But first He must return to turn them away from their iniquities.


But this took place; this is what the apostles are doing. Ie, the 'first' coming. And it is not that the seeds have any independent blessing in themselves for the nations; the blessing they are bring is the Christ, the Gospel. This passage is not about how a restored theocracy of Judaism is going to bless the world. It was about the mission of the Gospel, leveraging the background the Jews at the time already had in their history to get the message spread wide and quickly. Which succeeded, Paul says twice.
 

Danoh

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:chuckle:

I will make of thee a great nation, and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed

You might disagree with some of the following, but - Yep, as to your above.

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

As IP's pet prooftext - Galatians 3:17 proves against his assertions - "the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect."

Thus, the sense of Malachi 3:6's "For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed" at a time when the Law had once more found much of Israel worthy only of God's wrath.

Israel's was/is a Grace Covenant - that is the reminder in a passage like Malachi 3:6.

And tthis was reiterated as being the case way after Abraham - way back when the Law was first given...

Exodus 32:9 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: 32:10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation. 32:11 And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand? 32:12 Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people. 32:13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever. 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Fact is, concerning "ye sons of Jacob... the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect."

Paul's point being that if Israel's UnConditional Covenant even in the face of their Uncircumcised hearts throughout their history, the Law which was 430 years after could not disannul, such was now the case in the case of UnCircumcised Gentiles being accepted before God, neither circumcised, nor keeping the Law.

Paul is basically arguing Romans 4, once more.

Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Look at verse Romans 4:15 again - "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."

Such had also been the case not only in Paul's day now as to UnCircumcised Gentiles, but many centuries earlier as to "ye sons of Jacob" way back BEFORE the Law some 430 years earlier, when God first gave Abraham an UnConditional Covenant as to said "sons of Jacob."

In short, God is NOT through with "ye sons of Jacob."
 

Tambora

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You might disagree with some of the following, but - Yep, as to your above.

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

As IP's pet prooftext - Galatians 3:17 proves against his assertions - "the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect."

Thus, the sense of Malachi 3:6's "For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed" at a time when the Law had once more found much of Israel worthy only of God's wrath.

Israel's was/is a Grace Covenant - that is the reminder in a passage like Malachi 3:6.

And tthis was reiterated as being the case way after Abraham - way back when the Law was first given...

Exodus 32:9 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: 32:10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation. 32:11 And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand? 32:12 Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people. 32:13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever. 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Fact is, concerning "ye sons of Jacob... the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect."

Paul's point being that if Israel's UnConditional Covenant even in the face of their Uncircumcised hearts throughout their history, the Law which was 430 years after could not disannul, such was now the case in the case of UnCircumcised Gentiles being accepted before God, neither circumcised, nor keeping the Law.

Paul is basically arguing Romans 4, once more.

Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Look at verse Romans 4:15 again - "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."

Such had also been the case not only in Paul's day now as to UnCircumcised Gentiles, but many centuries earlier as to "ye sons of Jacob" way back BEFORE the Law some 430 years earlier, when God first gave Abraham an UnConditional Covenant as to said "sons of Jacob."

In short, God is NOT through with "ye sons of Jacob."
:BRAVO:
 
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