Josephus Records Doctrine of Immorality of the Soul and Punishment
- Thread starter Polycarp
- Start date
These "others"
The eternal torment view has been the majority view for about the last fifteen hundred years. The main Scriptures used to support that view are:
* Matthew 25:31-46
* Mark 9:38-48
* Luke 16:19-31
* Matthew 12:24-36
* John 3:35-36
* Revelation 19:19-21
* Revelation 20:7-10
* Revelation 20:11-15
The eternal torment view has been the majority view for about the last fifteen hundred years. The main Scriptures used to support that view are:
* Matthew 25:31-46
* Mark 9:38-48
* Luke 16:19-31
* Matthew 12:24-36
* John 3:35-36
* Revelation 19:19-21
* Revelation 20:7-10
* Revelation 20:11-15
logos_x
New member
OK...
* Matthew 25:31-46 Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers;
* Mark 9:38-48 Gehenna where their worm is not dying, and the fire is not being quenched.
* Luke 16:19-31 lifted up his eyes, being in torments,
* Matthew 12:24-36 whoever may speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age, nor in that which is coming.
* John 3:35-36 he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain upon him.'
* Revelation 19:19-21 living they were cast--the two--to the lake of the fire, that is burning with brimstone;
and the rest were killed with the sword of him who is sitting on the horse, which sword is proceeding out of his mouth, and all the birds were filled out of their flesh.
* Revelation 20:7-10 the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night--to the ages of the ages.
* Revelation 20:11-15 death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire--this is the second death;
and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire.
Please note that none of these verses is proof of eternal conscious torment.
* Matthew 25:31-46 Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers;
* Mark 9:38-48 Gehenna where their worm is not dying, and the fire is not being quenched.
* Luke 16:19-31 lifted up his eyes, being in torments,
* Matthew 12:24-36 whoever may speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age, nor in that which is coming.
* John 3:35-36 he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain upon him.'
* Revelation 19:19-21 living they were cast--the two--to the lake of the fire, that is burning with brimstone;
and the rest were killed with the sword of him who is sitting on the horse, which sword is proceeding out of his mouth, and all the birds were filled out of their flesh.
* Revelation 20:7-10 the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night--to the ages of the ages.
* Revelation 20:11-15 death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire--this is the second death;
and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire.
Please note that none of these verses is proof of eternal conscious torment.
Thank you, from those scriptures, it is easy to see that once you are thrown into the lake of fire, there is no hope of being saved.
You forgot this one: Rev.14:10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night,
and this one: Mt.8:12But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
And this one: Mt.22:13Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14For many are called, but few are chosen.
And this one: Jude 12These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; 13Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
And this one: 2Peter 2: 9The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
And this one 2Peter 2:17These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
There are more, I just don't have time to post them. None of them promise salvation after the day of judgment. Not only do they not promise salvation, there isn't even a slightest hope of salvation expressed in them.
You forgot this one: Rev.14:10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night,
and this one: Mt.8:12But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
And this one: Mt.22:13Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14For many are called, but few are chosen.
And this one: Jude 12These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; 13Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
And this one: 2Peter 2: 9The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
And this one 2Peter 2:17These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
There are more, I just don't have time to post them. None of them promise salvation after the day of judgment. Not only do they not promise salvation, there isn't even a slightest hope of salvation expressed in them.
Last edited:
logos_x
New member
Rev 14:9 And a third messenger did follow them, saying in a great voice, `If any one the beast doth bow before, and his image, and doth receive a mark upon his forehead, or upon his hand,
Rev 14:10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, that hath been mingled unmixed in the cup of His anger, and he shall be tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy messengers, and before the Lamb,
Rev 14:11 and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and they have no rest day and night, who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name.
This is pretty specific, aimed as a warning against the mark of the beast.
Also notice that it does NOT say they are tormented forever.
It says the smoke of their torment goes up to the ages of ages.
Compare this to Isa 34:9: And turned have been her streams to pitch, And her dust to brimstone, And her land hath become burning pitch.
Isa 34:10 By night and by day she is not quenched, To the age go up doth her smoke, From generation to generation she is waste, For ever and ever, none is passing into her.
This is not a proof text for eternal conscious torment.
___________________________________________
Mat 8:8 And the centurion answering said, `Sir, I am not worthy that thou mayest enter under my roof, but only say a word, and my servant shall be healed;
Mat 8:9 for I also am a man under authority, having under myself soldiers, and I say to this one, Go, and he goeth, and to another, Be coming, and he cometh, and to my servant, Do this, and he doth it .'
Mat 8:10 And Jesus having heard, did wonder, and said to those following, `Verily I say to you, not even in Israel so great faith have I found;
Mat 8:11 and I say to you, that many from east and west shall come and recline (at meat) with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the reign of the heavens,
Mat 8:12 but the sons of the reign shall be cast forth to the outer darkness--there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth.'
Mat 8:13 And Jesus said to the centurion, `Go, and as thou didst believe let it be to thee;' and his young man was healed in that hour.
This is clearly a prophetic indictment concerning the lack of faith in Isreal, and the coming judgement upon Jerusalem in their own time.
This is NOT a proof text for eternal conscious torment.
_____________________________________________
Mat 22:8 then saith he to his servants, The marriage-feast indeed is ready, and those called were not worthy,
Mat 22:9 be going, then, on to the cross-ways, and as many as ye may find, call ye to the marriage-feasts.
Mat 22:10 `And those servants, having gone forth to the ways, did gather all, as many as they found, both bad and good, and the marriage-feast apartment was filled with those reclining.
Mat 22:11 `And the king having come in to view those reclining, saw there a man not clothed with clothing of the marriage-feast,
Mat 22:12 and he saith to him, Comrade, how didst thou come in hither, not having clothing of the marriage-feast? and he was speechless.
Mat 22:13 `Then said the king to the ministrants, Having bound his feet and hands, take him up and cast forth to the outer darkness, there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth;
Mat 22:14 for many are called, and few chosen.'
This description fits well with punishment that is curative and corrective.
There is no mention as to duration at all.
This is NOT a proof text for eternal conscious torment.
_____________________________________________
Jud 1:12 These are in your love-feasts craggy rocks; feasting together with you, without fear shepherding themselves; clouds without water, by winds carried about; trees autumnal, without fruit, twice dead, rooted up;
Jud 1:13 wild waves of a sea, foaming out their own shames; stars going astray, to whom the gloom of the darkness to the age hath been kept.
This is NOT a proof text for eternal conscious torment.
Rather fits well with corrective punishment.
______________________________________________
2Pe 2:9 The Lord hath known to rescue pious ones out of temptation, and unrighteous ones to a day of judgment, being punished, to keep,
Really need to stretch evil to impossible heights to get eternal conscious torment out of this!
______________________________________________
2Pe 2:17 These are wells without water, and clouds by a tempest driven, to whom the thick gloom of the darkness to the age hath been kept;
Same with this one!
Rev 14:10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, that hath been mingled unmixed in the cup of His anger, and he shall be tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy messengers, and before the Lamb,
Rev 14:11 and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and they have no rest day and night, who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name.
This is pretty specific, aimed as a warning against the mark of the beast.
Also notice that it does NOT say they are tormented forever.
It says the smoke of their torment goes up to the ages of ages.
Compare this to Isa 34:9: And turned have been her streams to pitch, And her dust to brimstone, And her land hath become burning pitch.
Isa 34:10 By night and by day she is not quenched, To the age go up doth her smoke, From generation to generation she is waste, For ever and ever, none is passing into her.
This is not a proof text for eternal conscious torment.
___________________________________________
Mat 8:8 And the centurion answering said, `Sir, I am not worthy that thou mayest enter under my roof, but only say a word, and my servant shall be healed;
Mat 8:9 for I also am a man under authority, having under myself soldiers, and I say to this one, Go, and he goeth, and to another, Be coming, and he cometh, and to my servant, Do this, and he doth it .'
Mat 8:10 And Jesus having heard, did wonder, and said to those following, `Verily I say to you, not even in Israel so great faith have I found;
Mat 8:11 and I say to you, that many from east and west shall come and recline (at meat) with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the reign of the heavens,
Mat 8:12 but the sons of the reign shall be cast forth to the outer darkness--there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth.'
Mat 8:13 And Jesus said to the centurion, `Go, and as thou didst believe let it be to thee;' and his young man was healed in that hour.
This is clearly a prophetic indictment concerning the lack of faith in Isreal, and the coming judgement upon Jerusalem in their own time.
This is NOT a proof text for eternal conscious torment.
_____________________________________________
Mat 22:8 then saith he to his servants, The marriage-feast indeed is ready, and those called were not worthy,
Mat 22:9 be going, then, on to the cross-ways, and as many as ye may find, call ye to the marriage-feasts.
Mat 22:10 `And those servants, having gone forth to the ways, did gather all, as many as they found, both bad and good, and the marriage-feast apartment was filled with those reclining.
Mat 22:11 `And the king having come in to view those reclining, saw there a man not clothed with clothing of the marriage-feast,
Mat 22:12 and he saith to him, Comrade, how didst thou come in hither, not having clothing of the marriage-feast? and he was speechless.
Mat 22:13 `Then said the king to the ministrants, Having bound his feet and hands, take him up and cast forth to the outer darkness, there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth;
Mat 22:14 for many are called, and few chosen.'
This description fits well with punishment that is curative and corrective.
There is no mention as to duration at all.
This is NOT a proof text for eternal conscious torment.
_____________________________________________
Jud 1:12 These are in your love-feasts craggy rocks; feasting together with you, without fear shepherding themselves; clouds without water, by winds carried about; trees autumnal, without fruit, twice dead, rooted up;
Jud 1:13 wild waves of a sea, foaming out their own shames; stars going astray, to whom the gloom of the darkness to the age hath been kept.
This is NOT a proof text for eternal conscious torment.
Rather fits well with corrective punishment.
______________________________________________
2Pe 2:9 The Lord hath known to rescue pious ones out of temptation, and unrighteous ones to a day of judgment, being punished, to keep,
Really need to stretch evil to impossible heights to get eternal conscious torment out of this!
______________________________________________
2Pe 2:17 These are wells without water, and clouds by a tempest driven, to whom the thick gloom of the darkness to the age hath been kept;
Same with this one!
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
specifics of doctrine relative
specifics of doctrine relative
)======== its all in the details eh.
.......and it comes down to what one chooses to believe given his current predisposition and knowledge. I choose to remain optimistic and stand by the essentials which I have previously expressed. Modifications, alterations of view, perspective, detail may ensue...as one evolves/progresses in light - in the meantime....be conscious of your view,....and know that it may be modified as more light affords itself.
paul
specifics of doctrine relative
)======== its all in the details eh.
.......and it comes down to what one chooses to believe given his current predisposition and knowledge. I choose to remain optimistic and stand by the essentials which I have previously expressed. Modifications, alterations of view, perspective, detail may ensue...as one evolves/progresses in light - in the meantime....be conscious of your view,....and know that it may be modified as more light affords itself. paul
logos_x
New member
It's no "mistake".
Jesus is the savior of (not for) the the whole world (1 John 2:2, John 1:9, John 1:29, Joh 3:17, John 4:42, Joh 6:51, Joh n12:31,32, John 12:47, John 16:7-15, 33, 2Co 5:19, Gal 1:4, Eph 1:4, Eph 3:14,15, 1John 4:14) God will gather all things unto Himself, so that God will be all in all. (1Co 15:23-29)
Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
God forbid!
Logos, learn to quote scripture in context okay? Lets read the rest of Rom.3:3, 4God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. 5But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) 6God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
logos_x
New member
How SHALL God judge the world Polycarp?
You want the context?
OK..let's read it then!
Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Rom 3:5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
Rom 3:6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
Rom 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Rom 3:8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
Rom 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Rom 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Rom 3:14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Rom 3:15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
Rom 3:16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:
Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
All the way to here.....
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all menunto justification of life.
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Paul was a universalist...he NEVER said anything about Hell! And DID have this to say...
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
..indicating punishment with purpose...AND
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men(NOT GROUPS) to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, especially (NOT EXCLUSIVELY) of those that believe.
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all,
Which is more sound?
1.) Believeing God has saved you, learning about it, and entering in...or
2.) Believeing you are going to Hell and believing you must get God to save you somehow...or save yourself?
OMEGA
New member
PolyCarp,
What say ye to these scriptures ?
Ec 3:17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.
18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Mt 9:24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.
Mr 5:39 And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.
Lu 8:52 And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.
Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Ro 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Re 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
What say ye to these scriptures ?
Ec 3:17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.
18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Mt 9:24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.
Mr 5:39 And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.
Lu 8:52 And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.
Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Ro 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Re 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
inclusive universalism.........
inclusive universalism.........
Hi logos_x,
I see you have made some advancements in your beliefs towards a more inclusive universalist view.....finally abandoning the annihilist view. I remember sometime back we were debating over the whole soul-sleep/soul-annihilation views and eternal-punishment issues. Sound logic, sense and reason of course threw out 'eternal punishment'.....but we were still contending over soul-death/extinction.
As we ponder over the immortality of the soul and the concept of eternal punishment......I still find it peculiar how some still cling to the latter. I am leaning more towards universal salvation/redemption ultimately for all mankind/creation. I am also amazed how some feel universalism is heresy....because they keep on insisting that some will be lost(eternally)...or destroyed.....or deserve eternal punishment/torment....so universalism would spoil their pet peeves. But think how joyed God would be...and his beautiful creation.....when at last His Will is realized.....and His Love reigns thru-out.
Truly if Gods Will is Supreme.......nothing can at last pervert it. In the course of time and limited free-will liberties...it may seem that sin can carry a soul beyond redemption......but Gods Will and Love are All-Mighty. How wonderful and relieving it is to know this....and how empowering.
paul
inclusive universalism.........
Hi logos_x,
I see you have made some advancements in your beliefs towards a more inclusive universalist view.....finally abandoning the annihilist view. I remember sometime back we were debating over the whole soul-sleep/soul-annihilation views and eternal-punishment issues. Sound logic, sense and reason of course threw out 'eternal punishment'.....but we were still contending over soul-death/extinction.
As we ponder over the immortality of the soul and the concept of eternal punishment......I still find it peculiar how some still cling to the latter. I am leaning more towards universal salvation/redemption ultimately for all mankind/creation. I am also amazed how some feel universalism is heresy....because they keep on insisting that some will be lost(eternally)...or destroyed.....or deserve eternal punishment/torment....so universalism would spoil their pet peeves.
But think how joyed God would be...and his beautiful creation.....when at last His Will is realized.....and His Love reigns thru-out.Truly if Gods Will is Supreme.......nothing can at last pervert it. In the course of time and limited free-will liberties...it may seem that sin can carry a soul beyond redemption......but Gods Will and Love are All-Mighty. How wonderful and relieving it is to know this....and how empowering.
paul
logos_x
New member
Re: inclusive universalism.........
Re: inclusive universalism.........
Amen!
Re: inclusive universalism.........
Originally posted by freelight
Hi logos_x,
I see you have made some advancements in your beliefs towards a more inclusive universalist view.....finally abandoning the annihilist view. I remember sometime back we were debating over the whole soul-sleep/soul-annihilation views and eternal-punishment issues. Sound logic, sense and reason of course threw out 'eternal punishment'.....but we were still contending over soul-death/extinction.
As we ponder over the immortality of the soul and the concept of eternal punishment......I still find it peculiar how some still cling to the latter. I am leaning more towards universal salvation/redemption ultimately for all mankind/creation. I am also amazed how some feel universalism is heresy....because they keep on insisting that some will be lost(eternally)...or destroyed.....or deserve eternal punishment/torment....so universalism would spoil their pet peeves.
Truly if Gods Will is Supreme.......nothing can at last pervert it. In the course of time and limited free-will liberties...it may seem that sin can carry a soul beyond redemption......but Gods Will and Love are All-Mighty. How wonderful and relieving it is to know this....and how empowering.
paul
Amen!
OMEGA
New member
My own personal opinion is that God has
a Living Computer Bank that stores and keeps the spirits energized.
So, God can keep the spirit stored for as long as He wants.
By the time that the remaining people who died in the Sea
and all that died since Adam and Eve are given physical bodies
again, this World will be a Paradise.
To me the Lake of Fire will be mainly for burning all the Garbage
that will be in Land Fills when Jesus comes to take over.
That is how I see God's Advanced Technology.
a Living Computer Bank that stores and keeps the spirits energized.
So, God can keep the spirit stored for as long as He wants.
By the time that the remaining people who died in the Sea
and all that died since Adam and Eve are given physical bodies
again, this World will be a Paradise.
To me the Lake of Fire will be mainly for burning all the Garbage
that will be in Land Fills when Jesus comes to take over.
That is how I see God's Advanced Technology.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
persistent notions.....
persistent notions.....
Polycarp,
Not so sure they are indicating immortality of the soul or everlasting punishment....and Omega has his own twist on posting them for you...pointing to a presumption. (which I sure he can elaborate).
On the issue of everlasting punishment.....you still choose to hold to a teaching that defies logic, reason, justice and mercy. That is truly amazing.
paul
persistent notions.....
Polycarp,
Not so sure they are indicating immortality of the soul or everlasting punishment....and Omega has his own twist on posting them for you...pointing to a presumption. (which I sure he can elaborate).
On the issue of everlasting punishment.....you still choose to hold to a teaching that defies logic, reason, justice and mercy. That is truly amazing.
paul
logos_x
New member
Gen 3:4 But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not die;
seems you teach the same thing the serpent does...you are immortal and will live forever regardless of you're relationship with God.
Scripture, in the original languages they were written in, does not teach everlasting punishment in the sense you are saying.
Why punish if it produces NO CHANGE? Why not just destroy them so they aren't around anymore?
Heres a question no one can answer...
If people live forever in firey torment...what keeps them alive in the flames?
Last edited: