Jesus is God.

[Cross Reference]

Yes. You totally nailed it! G'nt Cross Reference.

Last place to look.

Ex. 13:21

Who is the cloud of the OT?

Lets see if our unferstandings are really in harmony:

Since you chose that passage, permit me to answer by asking you to label each part of vs 4 as I believe it relates to the inward manifeston of what which it is a "type".

 

[beameup]

Yes, they did believe in the spirit of God, as he is in the old testament, but, I don't think that they believed in the 2 Gods as one. I've never seen that in the old testament, only that there is one God.

Obviously you have never read the Old Testament.
As well, you have no knowledge of Hebrew theology
prior to the destruction of the Temple.
Of course Jews will deny any "two powers in heaven"
ever existed in their theology, but they are lying.

Quite simply, they just "didn't like" what God sent them in the person of Jesus.

 

[Cross Reference]

I think you need to take another look at your Bible before you so harshly judge people

Have you read about the history of the trinity before you accuse keypurr of being so wrong. Have you read how the trinity belief came into being? It was a duality at first and they didn't know what to do about the holy spirit but they added him on at a later date thus creating the trinity!

Is there anywhere in the Bible where it says God the son? Is it written anywhere in the epistles and preaching of the apostles who would have known who Jesus was? God would have made sure that was there.

Now what about these verses, seeing as keypurr is being accused for being so wrong.

This verses below, clearly shows that God is above Christ and he is the head of him. What are we supposed to do just dismiss them when they clearly show that God is the God of Jesus too?

1 Corinthians 11

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

1 Corinthians, 8

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Timothy 2

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

Mark 10

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

1 Peter 1

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

John 20

Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and.to my God, and your God

The apostles separated God and Jesus and they said that God was the God of Jesus Christ

Ephesians 1

That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him

Philippians 1

Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from.the Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenlyplaces.in Christ

Christ is in subjection to God

1 Corinthians 15

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

The word is Gods word

John 3

For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand

John 14

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Matthew 4

But Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"

John 12

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

God set Christ at his right hand

Ephesians 1:20

Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set*him*at his own right hand in the heavenly*places



Jesus prayed to God to forgive, why didn't he just do it himself if he was God? He said that without the father he could nothing.

John 5

I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Again in John 5

Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 8

Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

Jesus was in the express image of God, but he isn't God

Hebrews 1-3

Who being the brightness of his.glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Colossians 1

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature

And I can go on. Right though the new testament there are verses like those.

Some of you so harshly judge others, yet they are only reading the Bible, which clearly shows that there is one God, and his son Jesus Christ and God is his God also.

Been having that argument for years.

To get understanding one MUST address the son of man side of Jesus. Most reform folk avoid it because when Jesus is understood in the light of His humanity, they are left without excuse for not pursuing God to know Him . . believing they got it all when reciting a sinners prayer.

 

[marhig]

Obviously you have never read the Old Testament.
As well, you have no knowledge of Hebrew theology
prior to the destruction of the Temple.
Of course Jews will deny any "two powers in heaven"
ever existed in their theology, but they are lying.

Quite simply, they just "didn't like" what God sent them in the person of Jesus.

I don't know everything, and yes my knowledge is not great on ancient jewish beliefs. I only really read the Bible, and I haven't seen anything there that suggests that the Jewish people believed in any duality, only one God.

But, I definitely like what God sent us in Jesus, in fact i love him deeply and I know he's the Christ the son of the living God.

 

[marhig]

Been having that argument for years.

To get understanding one MUST address the son of man side of Jesus. Most reform folk avoid it because when Jesus is understood in the light of His humanity, they are left without excuse for not pursuing God to know Him . . believing they got it all when reciting a sinners prayer.

Yes, I have noticed that many that believe that Jesus is God, don't seem to understand that he also in a human body and that he had all the feelings and temptations that we have. I have seen many say that Jesus couldn't sin. Yet the Bible clearly states that was tempted in all points as we are, and that God cannot be tempted.

I remember reading this

Hebrews 2

For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted

Hebrews 4

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as*we are, yet*without sin

So if he was tempted as we are, then he had to be in exactly the same human flesh as we are and not in a body that couldn't sin. He was able to sin, he was in flesh and he denied his will. As he said not my will but thy will be done. So he had a will.

I believe that to say that Jesus couldn't sin is an insult to him, because he suffered to bring us the truth and deny Satan and he fought his fleshly nature and didn't give to his own will.

Jesus was also a man, he was in flesh and felt everything that we do, but he didn't sin!

He was the son of man as well as the son of God!

 

[beameup]

I don't know everything, and yes my knowledge is not great on ancient jewish beliefs. I only really read the Bible, and I haven't seen anything there that suggests that the Jewish people believed in any duality, only one God.

Most Jews are not even aware of their theology prior to the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D.
Obviously many Jews were already prepared to receive Yeshua and knew that He was precisely what to expect from YHWH. Unfortunately, these truths about 1st Century Judaism have been hidden due to PRIDE and stubbornness on the part of organized Judaism.

 

[God's Truth]

Most Jews are not even aware of their theology prior to the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D.
Obviously many Jews were already prepared to receive Yeshua and knew that He was precisely what to expect from YHWH. Unfortunately, these truths about 1st Century Judaism have been hidden due to PRIDE and stubbornness on the part of organized Judaism.

Ethnicity no longer matters. The only blood relation that matters is our relation to the blood of Christ.

 

[Cross Reference]

Yes, I have noticed that many that believe that Jesus is God, don't seem to understand that he also in a human body and that he had all the feelings and temptations that we have. I have seen many say that Jesus couldn't sin. Yet the Bible clearly states that was tempted in all points as we are, and that God cannot be tempted.

I remember reading this

Hebrews 2

For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted

Hebrews 4

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as*we are, yet*without sin

So if he was tempted as we are, then he had to be in exactly the same human flesh as we are and not in a body that couldn't sin. He was able to sin, he was in flesh and he denied his will. As he said not my will but thy will be done. So he had a will.

I believe that to say that Jesus couldn't sin is an insult to him, because he suffered to bring us the truth and deny Satan and he fought his fleshly nature and didn't give to his own will.

Jesus was also a man, he was in flesh and felt everything that we do, but he didn't sin!

He was the son of man as well as the son of God!

Yes, to all you stated. Now here is their accusation against such thinking: glorifying man, salvation is all about 'me' by our attempt to bring Jesus down to our level while all the while He has been saying 'come up to my level, I have made it possible that you can do it'. . . and I need you to do it!!

Do a solid read of John 17 to see the possibilities Jesus has provided us in the Father, as He enjoyed..

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, I have noticed that many that believe that Jesus is God, don't seem to understand that he also in a human body and that he had all the feelings and temptations that we have. I have seen many say that Jesus couldn't sin. Yet the Bible clearly states that was tempted in all points as we are, and that God cannot be tempted.

I remember reading this

Hebrews 2

For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted

Hebrews 4

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as*we are, yet*without sin

So if he was tempted as we are, then he had to be in exactly the same human flesh as we are and not in a body that couldn't sin. He was able to sin, he was in flesh and he denied his will. As he said not my will but thy will be done. So he had a will.

I believe that to say that Jesus couldn't sin is an insult to him, because he suffered to bring us the truth and deny Satan and he fought his fleshly nature and didn't give to his own will.

Jesus was also a man, he was in flesh and felt everything that we do, but he didn't sin!

He was the son of man as well as the son of God!

Jesus was tempted IN THE DESERT.

Think about that for awhile.

Jesus experienced temptation in the desert.

He did not live his life being tempted by sin.

Neither should any saved person be continually tempted by sin.

Sin should irk you and be something you have been trained to recognize and want nothing to do with.

Jesus is no mere man

Jesus is God the Father come in the flesh as a Son.

 

[Cross Reference]

Yes, they did believe in the spirit of God, as he is in the old testament, but, I don't think that they believed in the 2 Gods as one. I've never seen that in the old testament, only that there is one God.

But what I'm saying is, if you and others believe in the trinity and that all else is false teaching, then that's your beliefs. But others also have the right to have their beliefs, we have freewill. I believe the trinity doctrine as a teaching made up by men who couldn't work out who Jesus was in relation to God, so made him God.

And as I've shown above, the Bible clearly shows that God is also the God of Jesus Christ. So to rip others to bits for believing this is wrong. They're called cultists, heretics, false teachers, accused of bringing others to hell, teaching a false message etc etc. Yet I can see clearly in reading the scriptures (and show it) that God is the God of Jesus as I've shown above from the Bible itself.

I think some people should be careful before they condemn individual people. There are many denominations, not one will be completely right. But there will be people within those churches who have the right heart. I wouldn't condemn anyone or call others unsaved. Who are we to know the heart of God? and what God sees in our hearts? Or who God will have heaven? We are only flesh not God. Some may look perfect on the outside and believe just as you do and you see them as saved, yet their hearts could be very wrong before God. Someone else may see someone as being in a cult, but they could love God with all their hearts and be truly following Jesus. Who are we to judge each other? The word of God judges, and God knows who's heard the truth and who's sincere, and only he knows each of our hearts.

I definitely believe certain teachings are wrong and I will say so, but, I don't condemn individual people especially insinuating or saying that they are going to hell!

And what if one day we find out others are right and we are wrong and we'd condemned them to hell through our own judgements? As I said, we don't know the heart, only God knows that and he's the righteous judge, who sends the rain and the sun on the evil and the good. God is love.

I believe we start to descend into hell in this life, by following our own lusts and desires, and once Satan has a hold he pulls us right down. He wants us as far away from God as possible and he'll fill our head with nonsense to keep us in darkness. Holding hardness for one and hatred for another is a part of Satan's plan to divide, he loves sitting in our hearts as if he's God, but God wants him out.

So sin must stop, and Jesus came and showed to the way back to God and to how turn from sin, starting with denying ourselves and taking up our cross he did his, he denied Satan completely and he showed us a perfect example, and if we are willing to be a living sacrifice, we are to follow him, and deny Satan also, deny our fleshly desires follow the holy son of the living God, and we will be blessed by receiving the spirit of truth to teach us and guide us and put us to death in the flesh, and God will dwell on our hearts and Christ will be seen in our lives. And he will strengthen us to overcome, because he has overcome the world.

Matthew 16

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it

Matthew 24

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

All such error is a result of teaching creeds as canon, all part of reform easy believism.

 

[marhig]

Jesus was tempted IN THE DESERT.

Think about that for awhile.

Jesus is no mere man

Jesus is God the Father come in the flesh as a Son.

He was tempted in the wilderness, but I'm not sure what that has got to with him being God? As he was tempted always, not just in the wilderness, even Satan in Peter tempted him, but Jesus saw him in Peter straight away and told him to get behind him. Jesus was too strong for Satan because he was on the fullness of the holy spirit and Satan never got a look in. And whilst he was in the wilderness, Jesus clearly referred to God. So he's not God himself. Because he brought God up to Satan as he tempted him. Satan wanted Jesus to worship and obey him, Jesus worshipped and obeyed God. And never gave in to Satan.

See how Satan offered him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them? But Jesus didn't want Satan's glory, he wanted the glory of God. We can build up in this world and have all, and the glory of the flesh, but nothing compares to the glory of God. And for this we must, repent, become humble, have faith, love and obey God and deny ourselves and follow Jesus and we will be filled with the spirit and we will glorify God and Christ.

When Satan came and tempted Jesus, Jesus made it clear that he was going to obey God before him. And I believe that the verses below clearly show that God is also the God of Jesus. Even Satan knew he was the son of God and not God!

Matthew 4

And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.*But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God

And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in*their*hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God

Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;*And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.*Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.*

And I know he was the Christ, the son of the living God but he was also the son of man which is his flesh, but he's not God, and he was in flesh, and he had a will but denied his own will to do Gods will, so he could have sinned but he didn't, he never once gave into temptation. Thus overcoming Satan.

 

[marhig]

Jesus was tempted IN THE DESERT.

Think about that for awhile.

Jesus experienced temptation in the desert.

He did not live his life being tempted by sin.

Neither should any saved person be continually tempted by sin.

Sin should irk you and be something you have been trained to recognize and want nothing to do with.

Jesus is no mere man

Jesus is God the Father come in the flesh as a Son.

Jesus isn't God the father, he prayed to his father. Why would the father pray to himself the father?

And Jesus can save us from sin, by strengthening us in the spirit so we can fight Satan. Don't you know this?

Jesus himself was strengthened by God!

Philippians 4

I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

 

[marhig]

Yes, to all you stated. Now here is their accusation against such thinking: glorifying man, salvation is all about 'me' by our attempt to bring Jesus down to our level while all the while He has been saying 'come up to my level, I have made it possible that you can do it'. . . and I need you to do it!!

Do a solid read of John 17 to see the possibilities Jesus has provided us in the Father, as He enjoyed..

Jesus absolutely came as a man in flesh, how could he be tempted if he didn't also have a fleshly will? He himself said he had his own will and he denied it, and he told us we have deny ours too. It says Jesus suffered and through suffering learned obedience, if he didn't have any flesh nature, how did he suffer?

Hebrews 5

Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;*And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him

1 Peter 4 says he suffered in the flesh, what flesh was that if he couldn't be tempted? And it says that we have to suffer too as he suffered, showing he had the same flesh as us and could sin, the difference is, he didn't and we do but we are to stop sinning and obey God.

1 Peter 4

Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin

I will read John 17 later and let you know, thank you, I'm off out now

 

[Cross Reference]

Jesus absolutely came as a man in flesh, how could he be tempted if he didn't also have a fleshly will? He himself said he had his own will and he denied it, and he told us we have deny ours too. It says Jesus suffered and through suffering learned obedience, if he didn't have any flesh nature, how did he suffer?

Hebrews 5

Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;*And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him

1 Peter 4 says he suffered in the flesh, what flesh was that if he couldn't be tempted? And it says that we have to suffer too as he suffered, showing he had the same flesh as us and could sin, the difference is, he didn't and we do but we are to stop sinning and obey God.

1 Peter 4

Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin

I will read John 17 later and let you know, thank you, I'm off out now

Lets define this a little better:

The Word came in flesh and that by an indwelling of the seed of Mary, i.e., her egg, His "human" sperm made so supernaturally. No creating anything in this. When God said I AM THAT I AM, He was saying He would be whatever required to bring about what He has purposed, in Himself, to be fulfilled in His creation. Jesus used that title of intimacy when before Pilate, to speak it to him.

Not to forgotten is the possiblity the Word of God before incarnation, that which Moses saw in Ex.33:18-20 KJV could very well have been "Jesus". That Name, so intimate with God that it could not be seperated from the Living Word of the eternal Godhead which He was given to 'protect' throughout His many temptations. The man Jesus, never failed as He is today that it can repeated: "Jesus never fails". Full of Grace and Truth, Jesus made His Flesh, obey Him! He overcame! The law of the flesh was defeated that PAul could later say: "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 8:1 (KJV)

 

[lifeisgood]

Quote: His mission was the Cross. He came for nothing else.

What??... where does it say that in the Bible? He came for so much more! That's not true. His whole purpose was to come to bare witness to the truth

You, marhig, do not believe Holy Writ.

His PRINCIPAL mission was to go to the Cross of Calvary.

Being that Jesus the Christ is God, obviously, the ones who came close to Him were blessed just by God's presence.

 

[lifeisgood]

And what about preaching the gospel, didn't come to do that? Bringing us the word of God, to heal, to bring us from darkness into you light, from death to life and save those who believe in him. Wasn't he the light to the world? Naturally, when we're in complete darkness we see nothing and stumble and fall, but when were in daylight we see clearly and we are able to get around and see the our way. And Jesus lit up our hearts to show us the true way to God, which is to have faith, love God with all our hearts, then deny ourselves, take up our crosses and follow him. And by the grace of God he will strengthen us and guide us through the spirit.

You get Jesus wrong, it matters NOT what else you get right. You, marhig, got Jesus wrong.

 

[lifeisgood]

He didn't tell his desciples to go into the world and preach the cross to every creature, he told them to preach the gospel. The whole gospel!

The whole Gospel is Jesus Christ and His finished work on the Cross of Calvary. And I am not talking about the piece of wood where He was crucified.

However you, marhig, will not understand for you do not believe Jesus the Christ is Deity; therefore, you, marhig, reject His work in your stead, and you, marhig, by rejecting His Death are tirelessly working your fingers off presenting the work of your hands which have already been rejected just like the Pharisee of Luke 8: The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

You get Jesus wrong, it matters NOT what else you get right. You, marhig, got Jesus wrong.

 

[lifeisgood]

He did so much more than die on the cross!

As I have said previously anyone who came in the presence of God manifested in the flesh, obviously, would receive from His presence. It would be the same today, if He came and stood in front of you.

His PRINCIPAL mission was to go to the Cross of Calvary.

You get Jesus wrong, it matters NOT what else you get right. You, marhig, got Jesus wrong.

 

[lifeisgood]

He came to bring us love, forgiveness, bring life and rescue us from death, to be a light in the darkness to both Jews and gentiles, to bring the truth, to save us from Satan he is the only way and we who are his will repent have faith and we will follow him and obey him, because we hear his voice and love him. And we will walk the walk suffer as he suffered, and be doers of the word and not hearers only, because we love God and Christ will strengthen us because he has overcome the world and he will help us to do the same.

ALL provided because He knew the Cross of Calvary would pay the debt to God that you owe Him and you have nothing to offer that can even come close to offering something to pay God what you owe God, and God knowing that you are unable to pay what YOU owe Him, God sent the Second Person of the Deity to pay the debt in your place and that debt could only be paid on the Cross of Calvary; therefore, His PRINCIPAL mission being to go to the Cross of Calvary.

And it matter not how much Satan tried to deviate Him from His PRINCIPAL mission, Jesus the Christ would not be denied finishing the mission that was commissioned to Him.

You get Jesus wrong, it matters NOT what else you get right. You, marhig, got Jesus wrong.

 

[Cross Reference]

You, marhig, do not believe Holy Writ.

His PRINCIPAL mission was to go to the Cross of Calvary.

Being that Jesus the Christ is God, obviously, the ones who came close to Him were blessed just by God's presence.

Sincere question: Are they blessed by yours? <no sarcasm here>