Cross Reference
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Take it up with someone else, Bunk.
ECT Jesus Christ the Baptizer
- Thread starter Cross Reference
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Take it up with someone else, Bunk.
Arsenios
Well-known member
one can still argue, that those baptisms, even Paul's, were before the actual dispensation -
Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Arsenios
Well-known member
So, er... I mean... Hhummm....
OK...
And exactly, then, when WAS the ACTUAL dispensation?
I would argue that the ACTUAL dispensation of the Grace of Baptism was WHEN Christ was Baptized in Jordan's waters... Which was an ontological event, and not a mental one... Which confers the Grace of Christ's Baptism upon those following Him...
Arsenios
he baptized folks under the circumsision
Arsenios
Well-known member
Well, the Circumcision is comprised of those knowing the Law, for being circumcised is a part of the Law... But you suggested that Paul's Baptism into Christ might have been done PRIOR TO the ACTUAL dispension... So I asked you WHEN that might BE, you see...
So you did not address that question...
But your "perhaps" suggestion here simply cannot be true, because it forbids baptism to the Gentiles, and Paul himself writes: "Everyone that has been baptized into Christ has put on Christ..." and he is speaking to the Galatians, who later migrated to northern France, and became the Gauls, as in Charles de Gaul... These are not of the Circumcision, you see... And Paul did baptize some, not a lot... And he did baptize into Christ, as has been shown... And it was in water, as we have seen... And he never writes about the Holy Spirit doing a Baptism into Christ, but instead writes of the laying on of hands as GIVING the Holy Spirit AFTER Baptism... (Was that Acts 19?)
So we are kind of back to square one with the MAD theory...
Arsenios
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Arsenios
Well-known member
http://asceticexperience.com/portfolio/real-unity/
The Real Unity
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ
have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek,
there is neither bond nor free,
there is neither male nor female:
for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 3:27-28
Plus a Baptism in Siberia...
Not for Sissies!
Arsenios
The Real Unity
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ
have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek,
there is neither bond nor free,
there is neither male nor female:
for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 3:27-28
Plus a Baptism in Siberia...
Not for Sissies!
Arsenios
So no answer and no attempt. The best move you have is to admit defeat rather than continue to look like a fool like IMJerusha.
So no answer.
3Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
As for your unforgivable blasphemous comment about the Holy Spirit not doing anything.....(should have thought that one through first don't you think)
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Arsenios
Well-known member
Romans 6:3
Know ye not,
that as many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ
were baptized into his death?
1Cor 1:13
Is Christ divided?
Was Paul crucified for you?
Or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1Cor 1:14
I thank God that I baptized none of you,
Except Crispus and Gaius;
1Cor 1:15
Lest any should say
that I had baptized in mine own name.
1Cor 1:16
And I baptized also the household of Stephanas:
besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1Cor 12:13
For in one Spirit are we all baptized into one body,
whether we be Jews or Gentiles,
whether we be bond or free;
and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Gal 3:27
For as many of you
as have been baptized into Christ
have put on Christ.
So do Crispus, Gaius, and Stephanus sound like Jews?
They are Romans!
They are Gentiles...
Those are Latin names...
And Paul baptized them...
And he refers to those who have been BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST as US,
And not merely the Circumcision...
The case is overwhelming, PJ...
It is not even close...
Paul's own words...
Arsenios
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Cross Reference
New member
Arsenios
Well-known member
Now aside from the sheer fun of getting your goat, I enjoy saying true things as things that are true...
The petting of your feathers from tail to head is simply an incidental benefit, irreligious of how much it tickles me...
And you always seem to come down to moral indignation and accusation and condemnation,
which does add, I should confess right away, a certain SAVOR to the tastiness of it all...
EVERYWHERE in Scripture,
WHENEVER Baptism is mentioned,
it is ALWAYS being done at the hands of men
who baptize IN the power of the Holy Spirit,
and it is NEVER done BY the Holy Spirit
apart from the men who are the
ACTUAL DOERS of the Baptism...
Ananias, for instance - Remember him?
The one who did not want to go see Paul?
He it is, as Scripture faithfully records,
who GAVE TO PAUL the Holy Spirit
which up to that time PAUL DID NOT HAVE...
Remember that?
Do you not remember that this is WHY Christ sent him to Paul...??
He said to Paul that the very Christ Who had appeared to Paul on the road
had sent him, Ananias,
in order that Paul should receive his sight, remember?
And what ELSE???
That Paul should receive the Holy Spirit...
"That thou shouldest be filled with the Holy Spirit..." were the exact words, if I recall correctly...
Please correct me if I am in error, my old brain goes off on side-tracks all too frequently these days...
So what did Ananias DO???
He laid his hands on Paul, and what happened?
"As it were SCALES fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight..."
Remember that?
So that the first half of his words were fulfilled, that he should regain his sight...
And THEN what happened???
Paul AROSE, remember?
And he was BAPTIZED...
So WHO baptized Paul?
Ananias baptized Paul...
WHO filled Paul with the Holy Spirit?
Ananias filled Paul with the Holy Spirit...
THAT is WHY Christ SENT Ananias to Paul...
That Paul be FILLED with the Holy Spirit...
I should perhaps mention that Ananias could not GIVE what he did not POSSESS in order to give...
And the only way, to have to give what he did have to give,
is to have received it himself from someone who himself had it to give to him...
This is HOW Christ is the Baptizer of men into Himself
at the hands of His Servants IN HIMSELF,
in His Body, the Ekklesia of God...
Now I know that you like to call this "WILLFUL IGNORANCE"
(Notice that I did manage to correct your mis-spelling of willful
which you had rendered "wilful", mind you...]
but perhaps you can manage to simply address the issues
and sprinkle some holy water on that demon who insists
that you impugn the moral character of every person
who has the brassy cheek to actually disagree with you...
Arsenios
Cross Reference
New member
Sorry to disappoint you but, if you read the paper, deal with it on its merit because, scripturely speaking, it says all that needs be said. However, that is just my opinion based upon my own Spiritual experiences. I hope to trust that you have had some yourself and you will share it that will compliment the fact that Jesus Christ is the Baptizer as JTB spoke of; that Jesus would send the "Promise of the Father" that Joel prophecied would happen __ you conveniently ignore.
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Arsenios
Well-known member
So do you think that I am DENYING that Jesus Christ is the Baptizer???
Do you think that I am IGNORING that Jesus Christ is the Baptizer???
You HAVE, in this,
IF you answer yes to either of these two questions...
GREAT disappointment for us all...
Arsenios
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rougueone
New member
Arsenios , I was baptized by Holy Spirit alone. I was alone, in my home. Not praying, seeking, ET.... I was a person in the world, not in God-YHSHWH at all. Mothers day of 1990 at 2pm, while watching a golf game, sipping a beer, wasting time before my date with a woman. My baptism was so dramatic, it took me close to two hours to recover from crying and loudly stating " FATHER---Father......I cried like a baby as Holy Spirit presence was so over whelming. I never knew that such pure LOVE existed. It does, with God-YHSHWH only.
I went on my date, she left in about ten minutes as all I could speak of was God-YHSHWH. I was then asked to leave the bar as I was being Christ witness to all people, ( most knew me), telling them that Jesus loves them more than my words could define.
And since my Baptism, my life has never been the same.
=====================================
Before there was a baptism with the Spirit in the New Testament. Speaking of John “He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb” (Luke 1:15); his mother “Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit” (Luke 1:41)
In Acts 2, the 120 in the upper room were baptized by the Spirit, which is what Jesus told them to wait for in Acts 1:5.
Some people were filled with the Holy Spirit before the New Testament: Num. 11:16-17 God had the Spirit put upon the 70 elders to empower them for service.
Cross Reference
New member
And now all you need is to get is understanding before you start preaching.
Hi , and please notice that I put ( ) around the word " the " in the above paragraph , as the Greek word " the " is not in the Greek text !!
It reads like this , in Acts 1:5 , " you will be baptized with Holy Spirit not many of these days after !!
You are either a KJV-ONLY and or you do not understand what the Greek Article means ,
When the Greek Article is not used , it speaks to the POWER of the Holy Spirit !!
If the Greek Article is used , it speaks to the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit and just check and Greek Manuel and see !!
dan p
Cross Reference
New member
None of that is/was the Baptism by Jesus Christ JTB spoke of concerning Jesus. None of that was the "promise of the Father" as Jesus said He would send. Why don't you want to acknowledge that?