Jesus Christ is God Almighty, Jehovah

[Jerry Shugart]

Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Let us look at the verse:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (Jn.5:23).​

I don't know about you, but the best way that I honor God is by worshipping Him. So I honor God when I worship Him. And since the Lord Jesus says that we should "honor" Him even as we "honor" the Father then if I do that then I must worship the Lord Jesus.

In fact, one of the meanings of the Greek word translated "honor" is "revere" (Thayer'sGreek English Lexicon).

And that matches the following meaning (in "bold") of the Greek word translated "worship":

"to make obeisance, do reverence to" (from pros, "towards," and kuneo, "to kiss"), is the most frequent word rendered "to worship." It is used of an act of homage or reverence" (Vine's Expository Dictionary of the New Testament).​

The dictionary also defines "worship" in the same way:

"reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also: an act of expressing such reverence" (Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary).​

If you are not worshipping the Son to honor Him as you do the Father then you are not honoring the Father:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (v.23).​

And since only God is to be worshipped then that means that the Lord Jesus is God.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Let us look at the verse:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (Jn.5:23).​

I don't know about you, but the best way that I honor God is by worshipping Him. So I honor God when I worship Him. And since the Lord Jesus says that we should "honor" Him even as we "honor" the Father then if I do that then I must worship the Lord Jesus.

In fact, one of the meanings of the Greek word translated "honor" is "revere" (Thayer'sGreek English Lexicon).

And that matches the following meaning (in "bold") of the Greek word translated "worship":

"to make obeisance, do reverence to" (from pros, "towards," and kuneo, "to kiss"), is the most frequent word rendered "to worship." It is used of an act of homage or reverence" (Vine's Expository Dictionary of the New Testament).​

The dictionary also defines "worship" in the same way:

"reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also: an act of expressing such reverence" (Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary).​

If you are not worshipping the Son to honor Him as you do the Father then you are not honoring the Father:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (v.23).​

And since only God is to be worshipped then that means that the Lord Jesus is God.

So how do you worship?

LA

 

[Jerry Shugart]

So how do you worship?

In order to worship the Lord we express our love and devotion to Him. We can do it on our knees in prayer to Him. We can do it by singing songs about His goodness and mercy. When we worship Him we praise Him, either in prayer or in witness before other people. We should do these things every single day!

So do you worship the Father in order to honor Him. Of course you do. And if you are going to honor the Son as you do the Father then you must also worship the Son:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (Jn.5:23).​

Do you worship the Son or will you begin to to worship Him?

If not, why not?

 

[marhig]

WRONG!



To the angel who showed this things to the Apostle John:

"And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things" (Rev.22:22).​

The angel here is clearly distinguished from the Lord Jesus here:

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John" (Rev.1:1).​

The one who described Himself as the Alpha and Omega is clearly the Lord Jesus:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).​

how do we know that these are the words of the Lord Jesus? It is because the Apostle John makes it plain that the one who will be coming quickly is the Lord Jesus:

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev.22:20).​

Actually it was the word was given to Jesus and revealed into him by God, and Jesus sent and signified it by his angel unto John.

But who was speaking? There wasn't 2 there, only one, it doesn't say that the angel said this and then Jesus said that. They didn't change, it was the same person talking right through.

So was it Jesus, or was it the angel speaking? How do you see it?

 

[marhig]

So how do you worship?

LA

The way we should worship God is to lay down our lives and live to do his will. And obey God and follow the truth that Jesus taught and lived.

Jesus said "who is my mother and my brothers, my mother, brothers and sisters are those who do the will of my father" we can all say we love God outwardly by going to church and singing. But those who truly love God will be denying the lusts of their flesh and putting themselves last becoming living sacrifices and dying to self every day as the spirit in their heart guides them showing them what's right and wrong and teaches them the truth.

Matthew 15

Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

This is still happening today!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Actually it was the word was given to Jesus and revealed into him by God, and Jesus sent and signified it by his angel unto John.

Do you continue to deny that it is the Lord Jesus who is speaking here?:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).​

You can deny that these are the words of the Lord Jesus all you want but the Apostle John knew that the One who says that He is coming quickly is the Lord Jesus, as witnessed by his words here:

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev.22:20).​

There can only be One who can be the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, and that is the Almighty God, Jehovah:

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty" (Rev.1:8).​

Of course ou know that if the Lord Jesus describes Himself as the "Alpha and Omega and the beginning and the ending," as He does at Revelation 22:12-13, then the gig is up and you have to admit that the Lord Jesus is the Almighty God.

So you just deny that it is the Lord speaking at Revelation 22:12-13. But if it is not His words, why does the Apostle Peter say this?:

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev.22:20).​

 

[marhig]

Do you continue to deny that it is the Lord Jesus who is speaking here?:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).​

You can deny that these are the words of the Lord Jesus all you want but the Apostle John knew that the One who says that He is coming quickly is the Lord Jesus, as witnessed by his words here:

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev.22:20).​

There can only be One who can be the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, and that is the Almighty God, Jehovah:

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty" (Rev.1:8).​

Of course ou know that if the Lord Jesus describes Himself as the "Alpha and Omega and the beginning and the ending," as He does at Revelation 22:12-13, then the gig is up and you have to admit that the Lord Jesus is the Almighty God.

So you just deny that it is the Lord speaking at Revelation 22:12-13. But if it is not His words, why does the Apostle Peter say this?:

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev.22:20).​

No I don't, I know it's Jesus, and I know it's God too, but I don't see it as you do. I don't see it that Jesus is God, but that God is revealing his word to Jesus who is signifying it and sending it by his angel to John. Just as John and Jesus said.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

No I don't, I know it's Jesus, and I know it's God too, but I don't see it as you do. I don't see it that Jesus is God, but that God is revealing his word to Jesus who is signifying it and sending it by his angel to John. Just as John and Jesus said.

So you do not think that the Lord Jesus is the Almighty God even though both of them describe themselves as the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

 

[Right Divider]

So you do not think that the Lord Jesus is the Almighty God even though both of them describe themselves as the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending?

It's so simple that a child can understand it. Therefore, the only explanation is unbelief.

 

[marhig]

So you do not think that the Lord Jesus is the Almighty God even though both of them describe themselves as the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending?

I believe it exactly as it says in revelation 1:1

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John

Simply put, God gave revelation to Jesus, Jesus sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John.

God is the God of Jesus, and God also gives him revelation!

 

[Right Divider]

I believe it exactly as it says in revelation 1:1

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John

I guess that it's hard for you that some of the Bible speaks of Christ from the perspective of His humanity and some from the perspective of His deity.

 

[marhig]

I guess that it's hard for you that some of the Bible speaks of Christ from the perspective of His humanity and some from the perspective of His deity.

It's hard for me to see anything in the Bible that says that I must believe in a triune God to be saved, or that i must believe that Jesus is God.

The Bible tells me that I must believe that Jesus is the son of God, and that God is the God and father of Jesus Christ. And that's what I see and believe.

 

[Right Divider]

It's hard for me to see anything in the Bible that says that I must believe in a triune God to be saved, or that i must believe that Jesus is God.

The Bible tells me that I must believe that Jesus is the son of God, and that God is the God and father of Jesus Christ. And that's what I see and believe.

I understand your confusion. There are many like you.

 

[marhig]

I understand your confusion. There are many like you.

Why am I confused? Can you not see that what I'm saying is in the Bible? Would you like me to give you some verses to show you that i believe in the truth?

 

[Right Divider]

Why am I confused?

Because you think that there are TWO Alphas and Omegas. One that is God and one that is not.

Can you not see that what I'm saying is in the Bible? Would you like me to give you some verses to show you that i believe in the truth?

No, I have a Bible and I know what it says.

1Tim 3:16 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:16) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. ​

There is ONLY ONE Alpha and Omega and that is God.

 

[marhig]

Because you think that there are TWO Alphas and Omegas. One that is God and one that is not.


No, I have a Bible and I know what it says.

1Tim 3:16 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:16) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. ​

There is ONLY ONE Alpha and Omega and that is God.

Yes there is, and he was in Jesus who is the Christ and Jesus spoke his word, every word that Jesus received from God he spoke, he said that they were not his words but the father's. God was manifest in Jesus Christ through the holy spirit and Jesus had the fullness of God because he denied the flesh and this world and lived to do Gods will and never sinned.

And nowhere in the Bible does it say that I must believe that Jesus is God be saved. But that I am to believe in the son of God, and I do.

If that's not good enough for you so be it, but according to Jesus, that's what I'm to do and if it's good enough for Jesus then it's good enough for me.

 

[Right Divider]

Yes there is, and he was in Jesus who is the Christ and Jesus spoke his word, every word that Jesus received from God he spoke, he said that they were not his words but the father's. God was manifest in Jesus Christ through the holy spirit and Jesus had the fullness of God because he denied the flesh and this world and lived to do Gods will and never sinned.

You, like many here, use completely fallacious "logic". Jesus said that HE was the Alpha and Omega. Jesus did not have the "fullness of God because" of anything that He did. He WAS the fullness of God from before anything. Jesus Christ created ALL things (Col. 1:16).

Since you believe in a fairy tale Jesus, you are not believing in Jesus at all.

And nowhere in the Bible does it say that I must believe that Jesus is God be saved.

Who said that? Maybe you should go argue about that with them.

But that I am to believe in the son of God, and I do.

You think that the Son of God is a created being, but the Bible says that He CREATED ALL THINGS.

If that's not good enough for you so be it, but according to Jesus, that's what I'm to do and if it's good enough for Jesus then it's good enough for me.

You have a Jesus that cannot save you, since that one only exists in your mind.

 

[KingdomRose]

Jesus said, "Do not be afraid, I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore."

The first and the last what? What was Jesus the first of and the last of?

I'm listening.

opcorn:

OK. It's nice that you are listening. Would you help me to understand why Revelation 1:17,18 is different than "Alpha & Omega" of Revelation 1:8; Revelation 21:6 and Revelation 22:13?

Revelation 1:17,18 says (according to my Interlinear Bible published by Hendrickson):

"...Do not fear. I am the First and the Last, and the Living One; and I became dead; and, behold, I am living forever and ever. Amen."

I notice that in the Greek, as is presented alongside the English rendering, "the First and the Last" is very different from the Greek letters for "Alpha & Omega" that appear at Revelation 1:8 & 21:6 & 22:13. This rendering of "First & Last" at Rev.1:17 apparently does not mean the same as "Alpha & Omega." Would you check it out in an Interlinear version that's available to you and tell me what you think? Compare those Greek letters/words with "Alpha & Omega" in chapter 22:13 and the other two.

I wish I could type out the Greek letters, but I don't know how. Revelation 1:17 ("First and Last") has different Greek letters than Revelation 1:8; 21:6; 22:13. What you quoted, Revelation 1:17,18, does not say that Jesus is the "Alpha & Omega."


"The First and the Last" means that he was the first one to rise from the dead to eternal life in heaven, and the last to be able to give mankind any kind of salvation. (The "Alpha & Omega" that refers to Jehovah, the Father, means that He is eternal and has never died, and He is the only One who can command an ending to anything.)

 

[Right Divider]

OK. It's nice that you are listening. Would you help me to understand why Revelation 1:17,18 is different than "Alpha & Omega" of Revelation 1:8; Revelation 21:6 and Revelation 22:13?

Revelation 1:17,18 says (according to my Interlinear Bible published by Hendrickson):

"...Do not fear. I am the First and the Last, and the Living One; and I became dead; and, behold, I am living forever and ever. Amen."

I notice that in the Greek, as is presented alongside the English rendering, "the First and the Last" is very different from the Greek letters for "Alpha & Omega" that appear at Revelation 1:8 & 21:6 & 22:13. This rendering of "First & Last" at Rev.1:17 apparently does not mean the same as "Alpha & Omega." Would you check it out in an Interlinear version that's available to you and tell me what you think? Compare those Greek letters/words with "Alpha & Omega" in chapter 22:13 and the other two.

I wish I could type out the Greek letters, but I don't know how. Revelation 1:17 ("First and Last") has different Greek letters than Revelation 1:8; 21:6; 22:13. What you quoted, Revelation 1:17,18, does not say that Jesus is the "Alpha & Omega."


"The First and the Last" means that he was the first one to rise from the dead to eternal life in heaven, and the last to be able to give mankind any kind of salvation. (The "Alpha & Omega" that refers to Jehovah, the Father, means that He is eternal and has never died, and He is the only One who can command an ending to anything.)

Isa 41:4 (AKJV/PCE)
(41:4) Who hath wrought and done [it], calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I [am] he.


​

No, this is what it means.