Jadespring and 's/he-is-all-in-all'

[Nineveh]

You said this part of our convo belonged elsewhere, and I agree. Since you claim to speak in the Name of Christ, I thought it might be a good idea to start a new thread about who you believe God is.

Christ is Divine, of the Divine, from the Divine and yes I think he is God though I don't think it's in quite the same 'literal' way that you do. post 234

What is my theology behind Jesus being God? God is everything. He/She is all.
What do I mean by God? God is everything. Where you find "Spirit" you find God. Where you find Life you find God. God is in us and connects us with each other. God is the Ground of All Being. God is found in the Inbetween and thus Everything is God.
What does it mean to be created in his image? We are made in the image of the 'Spirit' or 'soul' of God. My reflection on Genesis story is a little different. We never fell. We only think that we did and created a whole story to do with that idea. It was our mistake. We have always been holy . We never 'fell' so to speak. We only think we did. Jesus came to liberate us from a 'guilt' and a primitive way of thinking that should have never happened.
So the outcome is still basically the same. (But yes. This discussion belongs somewhere else) post 249

In reply to your above statement I asked you if you believed your god was a transgendered child rapist. You declined to answer, twice. Either God really is "s/he-is-all-in-all" or He is not. So, is your god really a "transgenedered" (He/She) "child molester" (is all) or not?

 

[beefalobilly]

jadespring sounds like the second pantheist to pop up in a couple days, I'm not really sure where that comes from in the bible though..

 

[Crow]

Sounds like someone who read "The Gospel of St Thomas" too many times.

 

[Servo]

Uh...Jadespring?

 

[Zakath]

Did somebody PM her so she knows it's here?

 

[Nineveh]

bump

 

[intro2faith]

If this is true, and you think there never was a fall, then you are calling God a liar, and that's a big mistake.

 

[Jadespring]

You said this part of our convo belonged elsewhere, and I agree. Since you claim to speak in the Name of Christ, I thought it might be a good idea to start a new thread about who you believe God is.
In reply to your above statement I asked you if you believed your god was a transgendered child rapist. You declined to answer, twice. Either God really is "s/he-is-all-in-all" or He is not. So, is your god really a "transgenedered" (He/She) "child molester" (is all) or not?

*sighs*
Ninevah. I didn't decline to answer I asked for clarification because I'm trying to figure out how you're brain is working on this. It seems that you're taking the meaning of these words in a really 'odd' manner..
I still have no clue how you change 'is all" to child molester. It's ridiculous and whatever point your trying to make is lost in it's inflamatory nature. I asked for you to explain what you mean twice. You declined. This does not equal me not answering.

And as far as you going off on the whole transgendered issue try to get this: God is genderless as far as I am concerned or with both male female spiritual aspects however you wish to conceptulize it. ie: He created us in his image.
He is not some being with male and female parts all smushed together which I think you might be alluding to me believing. If you're not then I ask again could you please explain it.

In english we have no personal pronouns thats convery this so when people use He/She they're trying to convery that aspect. That is all.

 

[Nineveh]

*sighs*
Ninevah. I didn't decline to answer I asked for clarification because I'm trying to figure out how you're brain is working on this. It seems that you're taking the meaning of these words in a really 'odd' manner..

No, what is odd is for a self proclaimed Protestant Christian to call God "s/he-is-all-in-all".

I still have no clue how you change 'is all" to child molester. It's ridiculous and whatever point your trying to make is lost in it's inflamatory nature. I asked for you to explain what you mean twice. You declined. This does not equal me not answering.

If your god isn't a child rapist, then your god really isn't "is all", then is s/he? My God never claimed to be "is all in all", while He created everything, He isn't everything.

And as far as you going off on the whole transgendered issue try to get this: God is genderless as far as I am concerned or with both male female spiritual aspects however you wish to conceptulize it. ie: He created us in his image.

From beginning to end God is called He and refered to as Father, and yes, Christ is male. Could you point out in Scriptures where God is refered to as female? Feminine adjectives don't count by the way.

He is not some being with male and female parts all smushed together which I think you might be alluding to me believing. If you're not then I ask again could you please explain it.

The Bible and you are disagreeing again, it's that simple.

In english we have no personal pronouns thats convery this so when people use He/She they're trying to convery that aspect. That is all.

It's an "aspect" that is not Biblically based. It's pagan.

 

[Jadespring]

No, what is odd is for a self proclaimed Protestant Christian to call God "s/he-is-all-in-all".

Nice spin, diversion tactic. It's not odd at all. There isn't some one and only, "Protestant In a Bottle" theology.

If your god isn't a child rapist, then your god really isn't "is all", then is s/he? My God never claimed to be "is all in all", while He created everything, He isn't everything.

Our God. There is only one.
And you're failing to understand the is all aspect because you are taking it 'literally'' and in an utterly materialistic fashion. This is a spiritual concept.

From beginning to end God is called He and refered to as Father, and yes, Christ is male. Could you point out in Scriptures where God is refered to as female? Feminine adjectives don't count by the way.

Let's get down to the nitty gritty here. Okay? When you 'visualize" God. What do you see? A man? A being? You seem to want to stay completely fixated on the human aspect of God. His physical nature. His literal nature.

.

The Bible and you are disagreeing again, it's that simple.

No actually it's not that simple. See the numerous posts that we have already had about biblical reading and interpretation. This is the issue that at the crux of everything that we discuss, one that I repeatedly bring up and one that is repeatedly ignored.
Simply repeating over and over your interpretation about what the Bible means is not an answer to this issue.

It's an "aspect" that is not Biblically based. It's pagan.

[/QUOTE]
Really. So God is a man being? No femaleness in him at all? No aspect of his great knowledge and spirit? This isn't a pagan idea at all.
Check out proverbs like I pointed out. Please explain to me the wisdom (female personified and with God, used by God and sent out by God.) means to you?

Some examples :

Proverbs : 3 13 Happy is the man who finds wisdom, And the man who gains understanding; 14 For her proceeds are better than the profits of silver, And her gain than fine gold. 15 She is more precious than rubies, And all the things you may desire cannot compare with her. 16 Length of days is in her right hand, In her left hand riches and honor. 17 Her ways are ways of pleasantness, And all her paths are peace. 18 She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her, And happy are all who retain her. 19 The Lord by wisdom founded the earth; By understanding He established the heavens; 20 By His knowledge the depths were broken up, And clouds drop down the dew.

Proverbs 4
5 Get wisdom, get understanding; don't forget or turn away from the words of my mouth. 6 Don't abandon wisdom, and she will watch over you; love her, and she will guard you. 7 Wisdom is supreme-so get wisdom. And whatever else you get, get understanding. 8 Cherish her, and she will exalt you; if you embrace her, she will honor you. 9 She will place a garland of grace on your head; she will give you a crown of beauty."; 10 Listen, my son. Accept my words, and you will live many years. 11 I am teaching you the way of wisdom; I am guiding you on straight paths.

9 And thy wisdom with thee, which knoweth thy works, which then also was present when thou madest the world, and knew what was agreeable to thy eyes, and what was right in thy commandments. 10 Send her out of thy holy heaven, and from the throne of thy majesty, that she may be with me, and may labour with me, that I may know what is acceptable with thee: Wisdom 9.

How do you fit: "Created in God's" image with the fact that we have both male and female humans? Just wondering. It might clear up the differences in thinking here.

 

[Nineveh]

Nice spin, diversion tactic. It's not odd at all. There isn't some one and only, "Protestant In a Bottle" theology.

We are warned about false teachers.

Our God. There is only one.
And you're failing to understand the is all aspect because you are taking it 'literally'' and in an utterly materialistic fashion. This is a spiritual concept.

Point to it in Scripture where God is refered to as s/he or "is all in all". And please don't forget what we were talking about when you said God was female: "What is my theology behind Jesus being God? God is everything. He/She is all."

Let's get down to the nitty gritty here. Okay?

Finally

When you 'visualize" God. What do you see? A man? A being? You seem to want to stay completely fixated on the human aspect of God. His physical nature. His literal nature.

:noid:

I thought you wanted to get down to business? I should keep in mind your business seldom has any thing to do with the Bible.

No actually it's not that simple. See the numerous posts that we have already had about biblical reading and interpretation. This is the issue that at the crux of everything that we discuss, one that I repeatedly bring up and one that is repeatedly ignored.
Simply repeating over and over your interpretation about what the Bible means is not an answer to this issue.

The root of our disagreement, as I told you on the other thread, is who you think God is. All your other beliefs merely stem from that.

Really. So God is a man being? No femaleness in him at all? No aspect of his great knowledge and spirit? This isn't a pagan idea at all.

Yes, really. Christ is male. No, God really does not refer to Himself as female. Pagans have godesses, not Christians.

Check out proverbs like I pointed out. Please explain to me the wisdom (female personified and with God, used by God and sent out by God.) means to you?

Some examples :

Proverbs : 3 13 Happy is the man who finds wisdom, And the man who gains understanding; 14 For her proceeds are better than the profits of silver, And her gain than fine gold. 15 She is more precious than rubies, And all the things you may desire cannot compare with her. 16 Length of days is in her right hand, In her left hand riches and honor. 17 Her ways are ways of pleasantness, And all her paths are peace. 18 She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her, And happy are all who retain her. 19 The Lord by wisdom founded the earth; By understanding He established the heavens; 20 By His knowledge the depths were broken up, And clouds drop down the dew.

Proverbs 4
5 Get wisdom, get understanding; don't forget or turn away from the words of my mouth. 6 Don't abandon wisdom, and she will watch over you; love her, and she will guard you. 7 Wisdom is supreme-so get wisdom. And whatever else you get, get understanding. 8 Cherish her, and she will exalt you; if you embrace her, she will honor you. 9 She will place a garland of grace on your head; she will give you a crown of beauty."; 10 Listen, my son. Accept my words, and you will live many years. 11 I am teaching you the way of wisdom; I am guiding you on straight paths.

9 And thy wisdom with thee, which knoweth thy works, which then also was present when thou madest the world, and knew what was agreeable to thy eyes, and what was right in thy commandments. 10 Send her out of thy holy heaven, and from the throne of thy majesty, that she may be with me, and may labour with me, that I may know what is acceptable with thee: Wisdom 9.

Proverbs uses female pronouns to describe wisdom and that means God is female? I hear people refer to cars much the same way, that doesn't mean Lee Iacocca is a woman, either. Isn't that a stretch? And don't skip over the part there where God is refered directly as He: The Lord by wisdom founded the earth; By understanding He established the heavens; By His knowledge ... Pardon if I skip your last quote, it's not from Scripture. Perhps you should consider where you get your info to support your ideas, Protestant Christian.

How do you fit: "Created in God's" image with the fact that we have both male and female humans? Just wondering. It might clear up the differences in thinking here.

God created Adam. After God did that He passed all the animals in front of him so Adam would know what God already knew, there were none fitting for his help meet, none were fitting for him to procreate with. So God created Eve from Adam's own flesh. This does not mean God is female, it means that God is wise enough to create such a being as a man, and partner for him. Which underscores my point about how God made things in the beginning.


So now back to my question you seem disinclined to answer. Is your deity a transgendered child rapist? If not, perhaps you should change your definition of God from "s/he-is-all-in-all" to something more fitting of the Father.

 

[Jadespring]

We are warned about false teachers.

Point to it in Scripture where God is refered to as s/he or "is all in all". And please don't forget what we were talking about when you said God was female: "What is my theology behind Jesus being God? God is everything. He/She is all."

Yeesh this is like talking to a wall.

Finally

I thought you wanted to get down to business? I should keep in mind your business seldom has any thing to do with the Bible

And yet again there is no answer to the question.

The root of our disagreement, as I told you on the other thread, is who you think God is. All your other beliefs merely stem from that.

:doh:
And back we are again. This is not the root. You've seem to be utterly incapable of getting to the root or even understanding the root difference. It's like trying to convince someone who has an addiction. You can't get anywhere unless they are actually able to see the problem.

Yes, really. Christ is male. No, God really does not refer to Himself as female. Pagans have godesses, not Christians.

This really doesn't answer my question. I can see we're still fixated on a materialistic brand of spiritual understanding.
I'm giving up here.

Proverbs uses female pronouns to describe wisdom and that means God is female? I hear people refer to cars much the same way, that doesn't mean Lee Iacocca is a woman, either. Isn't that a stretch? And don't skip over the part there where God is refered directly as He: The Lord by wisdom founded the earth; By understanding He established the heavens;

Point missed entirely again. What is wisdom? That's what I asked. You're concept as an aspect of God.

By His knowledge ... Pardon if I skip your last quote, it's not from Scripture. Perhps you should consider where you get your info to support your ideas, Protestant Christian.

It's not? Funny there would be many Christians that would disagree with you. I guess my Bible is just older then yours.
Again I will make a comment about Protestanism in a box.
Your brand is not all that is out there and unless you can somehow convince me that your's is the be all and end all way of believing then harping on this "label" you seem so darned attached to isn't going to do any good.
Label me in whatever way you want.....why are you getting so upset about it?

God created Adam. After God did that He passed all the animals in front of him so Adam would know what God already knew, there were none fitting for his help meet, none were fitting for him to procreate with. So God created Eve from Adam's own flesh. This does not mean God is female, it means that God is wise enough to create such a being as a man, and partner for him. Which underscores my point about how God made things in the beginning.

Thank you now I understand more of what you are thinking and why you are responding the way you are.

So now back to my question you seem disinclined to answer. Is your deity a transgendered child rapist? If not, perhaps you should change your definition of God from "s/he-is-all-in-all" to something more fitting of the Father.

[/QUOTE]

edited to say: No. God is not.
I already answered this question. You just are having a problem with my answer.

 

[Jadespring]

If this is true, and you think there never was a fall, then you are calling God a liar, and that's a big mistake.

I never said there was not a fall.

 

[Army of One]

I never said there was not a fall.

My reflection on Genesis story is a little different. We never fell. We only think that we did and created a whole story to do with that idea. It was our mistake. We have always been holy . We never 'fell' so to speak. We only think we did.

:doh:

 

[Nineveh]

You can't get anywhere unless they are actually able to see the problem.

I agree. Now, let's get back to the topic of this thread, shall we?

I can see we're still fixated on a materialistic brand of spiritual understanding.

You still haven't explained what you mean by s/he-is-sll-in-all, nor have you offered any Biblical evidence God declares Himself as such. Literally, figuratively, metaphorically, spiritually or any other way you try to justify your belief about Christ.

I'm giving up here.

What's new? What's this? Like the 3rd time? Really now, if you didn't expect to talk theology on TOL, perhaps you should have chosen Yahoo to chat.

Point missed entirely again. What is wisdom? That's what I asked. You're concept as an aspect of God.

No, your pagan justification wasn't missed. God isn't only wisdom, btw. So where did you cut and paste your talking point verses from?

It's not? Funny there would be many Christians that would disagree with you. I guess my Bible is just older then yours.
Again I will make a comment about Protestanism in a box.
Your brand is not all that is out there and unless you can somehow convince me that your's is the be all and end all way of believing then harping on this "label" you seem so darned attached to isn't going to do any good.
Label me in whatever way you want.....why are you getting so upset about it?

Name one Protestant Church that uses the book of wisdom. You could name yours, but I think it's been fully disclosed you aren't protestant.

As for your mislabeling yourself for a second time, that's your fault not those who might think you are telling the Truth. Besides, the only person who seems to be getting upset about it is you.

Thank you now I understand more of what you are thinking and why you are responding the way you are.

Really? You've figured out I think you are fibbing about being a Christian and that you misrepresent my God? Cool! And it only took 2 threads

edited to say: No. God is not.
I already answered this question. You just are having a problem with my answer.

I have no problem with your answer I think you are having trouble justifying your god being s/he-is-all-in-all while not allowing it to also be a transgendered child molester though. Here is where it behooves your, for your own sake, to rethink who your god really is. Either it really is "is all in all" or it isn't.

Let me say it this way...

My God wrote, with His own finger:

"You shall have no other gods before me.." and "You shall not make for yourself an idol..."

He got mad at His people for following baal, asteroth and molech. This means that my God really is not is all in all. He seperated Himself from those idols and the forms of worship they demanded.

 

[One Eyed Jack]

You want to know what wisdom is, Jadespring? It's the application of intelligence.

 

[Granite]

Where did Nin get the idea that Jade's god is a child abuser? I do not understand that foolishness at all.

Nin's rejection of the divine feminine is typical of Christian thought. And unfortunate.

 

[Army of One]

Where did Nin get the idea that Jade's god is a child abuser? I do not understand that foolishness at all.

Jade claimed that her god was "all-in-all", so Nin was simply asking if god was a child abuser too (basically a question that demonstrates the absurdity of a pantheistic claim like the one Jade made).

 

[Granite]

Jade claimed that her god was "all-in-all", so Nin was simply asking if god was a child abuser too (basically a question that demonstrates the absurdity of a pantheistic claim like the one Jade made).

The question is absurd because it's a non-sequitar. She could have just as easily asked if Jade's god was a vegetarian, too. I just don't understand why Nin thought the question was appropriate for the discussion (not in a prudish sense, just in a sense of accuracy).

 

[Rimi]

Good point, Granite. So, Jade, is your god a vegasaurus AND a meatasaurus?