Jacob Changed To James By Catholics

jsanford108

New member
The Apostolic church of Jesus Christ, not the Roman church of Emperor Constantine which was established some 300 years later.

In the days of the Apostle Paul who in 1st Timothy 1: 1; says: "From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by order of "GOD OUR SAVIOUR" and Christ Jesus "OUR HOPE."" The people were already beginning to fall away from the truth, and following another gospel that was not taught by the word of God or the apostles.

In his 2nd letter to the Corinthians 11: 4; Paul says, "You gladly tolerate anyone who comes to you and preaches a different Jesus, not the one we preached; and you accept a spirit (The Lie) and a gospel completely different from the spirit (Of Truth) and the gospel you received from us."

So, What was that other gospel, Way back in the days of Paul, that was leading the people away from the truth and away from the Jesus as preached by the Apostles, to another false Jesus?

That gospel was the word of the anti-christ that refused to acknowledge that Jesus had come as a human being, and instead, they believed that he was a spirit, who, like some Hologram, would appear and disappear at will.

Over the centuries the false teaching of the anti-christ continued to evolve. But as the followers of the anti-christ became more enlightened and harder to deceive. In Alexandria, by the second century, Docetism, the concept that Jesus had existed as a spirit rather than a human being, had all but theoretically been stamped out.

But still, there persisted the belief that their false Jesus, although seen as a sort of human being, did not have our normal bodily needs, such as eating, drinking and having to go to the toilet, and Clement the bishop of Alexandria, wrote: "It would be ridiculous to imagine that the redeemer, in order to exist, had the usual needs of man. He only took food and ate it in order that we should not teach about him in a Docetic fashion." Satan must have been some sort of an idiot believing that this false Jesus of theirs, who had no need of food such as we human beings do, was starving hungry after a mere 40 days without food, who then tried to tempt him into turning stones into bread.

Their Jesus was not the Jesus as taught by the apostles, but that other Jesus, taught by the Anti-Christ, who unlike we mere HUMAN BEINGS, did not need to eat, drink, or go to the toilet, as was taught by one of the great teachers that the members of the universal church, love to use as one of their authorities when trying to defend one of their false doctrines.

Saint Clement of Alexandria, who was a saint in the Martyrology of the Roman universal church of Emperor Constantine, in support of the great lie, speaks of the time that some imaginary midwife, (Which is not supported by scripture) who was supposed to be at the birth of Jesus, told some woman by the name Salome, that the mother was still a virgin after the birth and that her hymen was still intact, (Which is not supported by scripture) and that this supposed Salome, stuck her finger into the mother's vagina to check, and her hand immediately withered up, but the baby Jesus reached out and touched her hand and healed it.(What utter unadulterated crap)

Down to the 17th century Clement was venerated as a saint. His name was to be found in the Martyrologies, and his feast fell on December 4. But when the Roman Martyrology was revised by Clement VIII (Pope from 1592 to 1605), his name was dropped from the calendar on the advice of his confessor, Cardinal Baronius. Pope Benedict XIV in 1748 maintained his predecessor's decision on the grounds that Clement's life was little-known; that he had never obtained public cultus in the Church; and that some of his doctrines were, if not erroneous, at least highly suspect.

Erroneous and highly suspect, you can say that again, but by then the great lie had become so entrenched in the minds of the gullible that their heads were so mixed up and set as hard as concrete, one would need a sledge hammer to shatter that conglomerat and allow the light of truth to shine in.

Clement, who lived between 150"211 AD was expressing a belief that was already firmly established by those who had abandoned the Jesus as taught by the apostles.

The Lord now has need of some good children of God, to root out the weeds that were planted by the Famous Prostitute and her harlot denominational daughters who have been brought up on her spiritual rubbish

The apostolic church is correct. Too bad The Catholic Church is the only one who can trace their succession back to the apostles. Thereby destroying your argument. Once again.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 

randomvim

New member
A church IS individuals.
Anything a church preaches and does is preached and done by individuals of that church.
You cannot separate the two as if they exist independently.

A church is a body of people not a selected few or some individuals. In a group (especially that diverse of cultures, heritage, and ideas from around the world) you will always see somebody acting according to themselves rather the group.

sometimes there is no harm in this but a great emphasis of what the group stands for or represents. Sometimes this pushes people away and misdirects a cause.

True, what that "body" teaches/preaches is acted upon by individuals which emphasises a need to look at the individuals.

This is not to seperate but identify what needs to be identified. Otherwise you incriminate other innocent individuals trying to keep what is taught unlike potential hypocrates or plotters that move towards personal gains.

As stated earlier, if we do not examine this then we might as well condemn an entire people for any sake. We can look at any group this way.

If not, then I ask for the logic in blaming a body of people that preach forgiveness and charity when a few within that group stole?
 

randomvim

New member
May anyone clarify which Jacob or James is being referenced by o.p.? I think thread author got distracted.

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk
 

S-word

BANNED
Banned
A church is a body of people not a selected few or some individuals. In a group (especially that diverse of cultures, heritage, and ideas from around the world) you will always see somebody acting according to themselves rather the group.

sometimes there is no harm in this but a great emphasis of what the group stands for or represents. Sometimes this pushes people away and misdirects a cause.

How much compensation has been paid out to the victims of Paedophile priests in all the countries that the Roman Church had established a foothold?

In Australia alone the Catholic Church has admitted paying at least $43 million in hush money to victims of its paedophile priests, and the church's barrister outraged the victims, by quoting from the Bible. The victims walked out of the Sydney hearing in tears when the church's counsel, Peter Gray SC quoted from the Gospel of Mark. "Let the little children come to me; do not stop them; for it is to such of these that the kingdom of God belongs," Mr Gray said.

The church leaders acknowledged that protecting the reputation of the church before the protection of children and their families, had betrayed the trust "of their own people and the expectations of the wider community".

True, what that "body" teaches/preaches is acted upon by individuals which emphasises a need to look at the individuals.

This is not to seperate but identify what needs to be identified. Otherwise you incriminate other innocent individuals trying to keep what is taught unlike potential hypocrates or plotters that move towards personal gains.

As stated earlier, if we do not examine this then we might as well condemn an entire people for any sake. We can look at any group this way.

If not, then I ask for the logic in blaming a body of people that preach forgiveness and charity when a few within that group stole?
 

S-word

BANNED
Banned

How much compensation has been paid out to the victims of Paedophile priests in all the countries that the Roman church has established a foothold?

In Australia alone the Catholic Church has admitted paying at least $43 million in hush money to victims of its paedophile priests, and the church's barrister outraged victims, by quoting from the Bible. The victims walked out of the Sydney hearing in tears when the church's counsel, Peter Gray SC quoted from the Gospel of Mark. "Let the little children come to me; do not stop them; for it is to such of these that the kingdom of God belongs," Mr Gray said.

The church leaders acknowledged that protecting the reputation of the church before the protection of children and their families, had betrayed the trust "of their own people and the expectations of the wider community".
 

S-word

BANNED
Banned
You are reading your flawed opinion into the verses rather than from the verses.

Also, if we believe in Christ, are not our sins paid for? So by your doctrine, Catholics have no worries and are going straight to heaven. So the wages of sin are heaven, if your doctrines are true.

Sent from my iPhone using TOL

If, if, if? If the Roman church of Emperor Constantine believed in the Jesus as taught by the Apostles, they would have no worries. But they don't, they believe in the false Jesus as taught by their once St Clement.
 

randomvim

New member
There must be an error in typing.

1. Statistically, you still have larger number of cases in school systems. still pertain a higher probability to being abused by a family member than another.

Otherwise, I agree it is upsetting when any person decides to abuse a child whether they abuse a position of trust or not.

the idea that a single organization is corrupt to its entirety is absurd. this is why the same anti catholics wont raise a voice againat their own school systems LIKE pen state in u.s. where you not just have decades of abuse but decades of cover up as well. True, in both cases (the Church and pen state) paid money due to those who were hurt (and no it wasnt hush money) as well as pertain their own resignations and expulsions. However, pen state is now yesterday news while anyone tends to think bad things must equate to falibility for C.C.

Looking past the unbalance in peer review, Jesus said gates of hell would not prevail, not that His church on earth (filled with sinners) would be without struggle.

This encompasses what I stated eaier, which despite complaint, highlights how INDIVIDUALS act in ways the affects many but continue to consider only their personal gains.

I pray for those hurt and those who do not understand they should not hurt. I struggle with how some act but focus on learning from these unfortunate situations.

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

jsanford108

New member
If, if, if? If the Roman church of Emperor Constantine believed in the Jesus as taught by the Apostles, they would have no worries. But they don't, they believe in the false Jesus as taught by their once St Clement.

Where is your source? It clearly isn't a catholic source, which would clearly define what the Catholic Church actually believes and teaches (like the catechism).


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 

S-word

BANNED
Banned
Where is your source? It clearly isn't a catholic source, which would clearly define what the Catholic Church actually believes and teaches (like the catechism).


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

But first let me address the post by randomvim who quoted the words of Jesus, who said, “The gates of hell shall not prevail against my Church.”

Jesus was referring to the Apostolic church that was founded in Jerusalem, not the Roman church that was firmly established by Emperor Constantine in the 4th century, which was the worthless shepheard that the Lord, who had filled the man Jesus with his spirit, said through his prophet Zechariah that he would raise up in the land after he was paid his majestic wage of thirty pieces of silver.

Zechariah 11: 12; *I said to them, “If it is good in your sight, give me my wages; but if not, never mind!” So they weighed out thirty shekels of silver as my wages.

13*Then the Lord said to me, “Throw it to the potter, that magnificent price at which I was valued by them.” So I took the thirty shekels of silver and threw them to the potter in the house of the Lord.

14*Then I cut in pieces my second staff Union, to break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel. 15*The Lord said to me, “Take again for yourself the equipment of a foolish shepherd.

16*For behold, I am going to raise up a shepherd in the land who will not care for the perishing, seek the scattered, heal the broken, or sustain the one standing, but will devour the flesh of the fat sheep and tear off their hoofs.

17*“Woe to the worthless shepherd
Who leaves the flock!
A sword will be on his arm
And on his right eye!
His arm will be totally withered
And his right eye will be blind.”

Oh you shepherd of the darkness who claim God sent you out
\And even though we know that’s true, that fact I wouldn’t flout
For God commanded Zechariah, “Throw my wages cross the floor
Those thirty bits of silver, for I’ll guide that flock no more
A useless shepherd now I’ll raise to guide that stubborn flock
And he will be a worthless one, of him I’ll take no stock.
For he’ll not feed my little ones nor search for them that’s lost.
But he eats the meat of the fattest sheep and their Hoofs?
He tears them Off. That worthless shepherd, he is doomed
For abandoning my flock, his power will I destroy by war
His arm will wither dry then drop, and his right eye will I turn blind,
That’s why he’s never seen, the Passage where I speak of him:
Zechariah; eleven: twelve to seventeen.”

Now to your question as to the source of the biblical truth that the Roman church was founded on a false Jesus, and not the Jesus as was taught by the Apostles.

In the days of the Apostle Paul who in 1st Timothy 1: 1; says: "From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by order of "GOD OUR SAVIOUR" and Christ Jesus "OUR HOPE."" The people were already beginning to fall away from the truth, and following another gospel that was not taught by the word of God or the apostles.

In his 2nd letter to the Corinthians 11: 4; Paul says, "You gladly tolerate anyone who comes to you and preaches a different Jesus, not the one we preached; and you accept a spirit (The Lie) and a gospel completely different from the spirit (Of Truth) and the gospel you received from us."

So, What was that other gospel, way back in the days of Paul, that was leading the people away from the truth and away from the Jesus as preached by the Apostles, to another false Jesus?

That gospel was the word of the anti-christ that refused to acknowledge that Jesus had come as a human being, and instead, they believed that he was a spirit, who, like some Hologram, would appear and disappear at will.

From the catholic Study Edition of the Good News Bible: 1st letter of John 4:1-3; "My dear friends, do not believe all who claim to have the spirit/teaching, (My words are spirit said the Lord through his obedient servant, Jesus) but test them to find out if the spirit/teaching they have comes from God. For many false prophets have gone out everywhere. This is how you will be able to know if it is Gods spirit/word: anyone who acknowledges that Jesus came as a human being has the spirit/teaching, who comes from God. But anyone who denies this about Jesus does not have the spirit from God. The spirit that he has is from the enemy of the anointed one, the Anti-christ etc."

2nd letter of John verses 7-10;."Many deceivers have gone out all over the world, people who do not acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being. Such a person is a deceiver and an enemy of Christ."

If you would care to open your eyes, I'm sure that you will have little difficulty in finding the teaching of the anti-christ, which does not deny that Jesus had come, but which refused to acknowledge that Jesus was a true human being, who was born of the seed of Adam, and descended through the genetic line of David, which lie has been spread throughout the entire WORLD.

Over the centuries the false teaching of the anti-christ continued to evolve. But as the followers of the anti-christ became more enlightened and harder to deceive. In Alexandria, by the second century, Docetism, the concept that Jesus had existed as a spirit rather than a human being, had all but theoretically been stamped out.

But still, there persisted the belief that their false Jesus, although seen as a sort of human being, did not have our normal bodily needs, such as eating, drinking and having to go to the toilet, and Clement the bishop of Alexandria, wrote: "It would be ridiculous to imagine that the redeemer, in order to exist, had the usual needs of man. He only took food and ate it in order that we should not teach about him in a Docetic fashion." Satan must have been some sort of an idiot believing that this false Jesus of theirs, who had no need of food such as we human beings do, was starving hungry after a mere 40 days without food, who then tried to tempt him into turning stones into bread.

Their Jesus was not the Jesus as taught by the apostles, but that other Jesus, taught by the Anti-Christ, who unlike we mere HUMAN BEINGS, did not need to eat, drink, or go to the toilet, as was taught by one of the great teachers that the members of the universal church, loved to use as one of their authorities when trying to defend one of their false doctrines.

Saint Clement of Alexandria, who was a saint in the Martyrology of the Roman universal church of Emperor Constantine, in support of the great lie, speaks of the time that some imaginary midwife, (Which is not supported by scripture) who was supposed to be at the birth of Jesus, told some woman by the name Salome, that the mother was still a virgin after the birth and that her hymen was still intact, (Which is not supported by scripture) and that this supposed Salome, stuck her finger into the mother's vagina to check, and her hand immediately withered up, but the baby Jesus reached out and touched her hand and healed it. (What utter unadulterated crap)

Down to the 17th century Clement was venerated as a saint. His name was to be found in the Martyrologies, and his feast fell on December 4. But when the Roman Martyrology was revised by Clement VIII (Pope from 1592 to 1605), his name was dropped from the calendar on the advice of his confessor, Cardinal Baronius. Pope Benedict XIV in 1748 maintained his predecessor's decision on the grounds that Clements life was little-known; that he had never obtained public cultus in the Church; and that some of his doctrines were, if not erroneous, at least highly suspect.

Erroneous and highly suspect, you can say that again, but by then the great lie had become so entrenched in the minds of the gullible that their heads were so mixed up and set as hard as concrete, one would need a sledge hammer to shatter that conglomerate and allow the light of truth to shine in.

Clement, who lived between 150"211 AD was expressing a belief that was already firmly established by those who had abandoned the Jesus as taught by the apostles.

The Lord now has need of some good children of God, to root out the weeds that were planted by the Famous Prostitute and her harlot denominational daughters who have been brought up on her spiritual rubbish
 

randomvim

New member
But first let me address the post by randomvim who quoted the words of Jesus, who said, “The gates of hell shall not prevail against my Church.”

Jesus was referring to the Apostolic church that was founded in Jerusalem, not the Roman church that was firmly established by Emperor Constantine in the 4th century, which was the worthless shepheard that the Lord, who had filled the man Jesus with his spirit, said through his prophet Zechariah that he would raise up in the land after he was paid his majestic wage of thirty pieces of silver.

Zechariah 11: 12; *I said to them, “If it is good in your sight, give me my wages; but if not, never mind!” So they weighed out thirty shekels of silver as my wages.

13*Then the Lord said to me, “Throw it to the potter, that magnificent price at which I was valued by them.” So I took the thirty shekels of silver and threw them to the potter in the house of the Lord.

14*Then I cut in pieces my second staff Union, to break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel. 15*The Lord said to me, “Take again for yourself the equipment of a foolish shepherd.

16*For behold, I am going to raise up a shepherd in the land who will not care for the perishing, seek the scattered, heal the broken, or sustain the one standing, but will devour the flesh of the fat sheep and tear off their hoofs.

17*“Woe to the worthless shepherd
Who leaves the flock!
A sword will be on his arm
And on his right eye!
His arm will be totally withered
And his right eye will be blind.”

Oh you shepherd of the darkness who claim God sent you out
\And even though we know that’s true, that fact I wouldn’t flout
For God commanded Zechariah, “Throw my wages cross the floor
Those thirty bits of silver, for I’ll guide that flock no more
A useless shepherd now I’ll raise to guide that stubborn flock
And he will be a worthless one, of him I’ll take no stock.
For he’ll not feed my little ones nor search for them that’s lost.
But he eats the meat of the fattest sheep and their Hoofs?
He tears them Off. That worthless shepherd, he is doomed
For abandoning my flock, his power will I destroy by war
His arm will wither dry then drop, and his right eye will I turn blind,
That’s why he’s never seen, the Passage where I speak of him:
Zechariah; eleven: twelve to seventeen.”

Now to your question as to the source of the biblical truth that the Roman church was founded on a false Jesus, and not the Jesus as was taught by the Apostles.

In the days of the Apostle Paul who in 1st Timothy 1: 1; says: "From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by order of "GOD OUR SAVIOUR" and Christ Jesus "OUR HOPE."" The people were already beginning to fall away from the truth, and following another gospel that was not taught by the word of God or the apostles.

In his 2nd letter to the Corinthians 11: 4; Paul says, "You gladly tolerate anyone who comes to you and preaches a different Jesus, not the one we preached; and you accept a spirit (The Lie) and a gospel completely different from the spirit (Of Truth) and the gospel you received from us."

So, What was that other gospel, way back in the days of Paul, that was leading the people away from the truth and away from the Jesus as preached by the Apostles, to another false Jesus?

That gospel was the word of the anti-christ that refused to acknowledge that Jesus had come as a human being, and instead, they believed that he was a spirit, who, like some Hologram, would appear and disappear at will.

From the catholic Study Edition of the Good News Bible: 1st letter of John 4:1-3; "My dear friends, do not believe all who claim to have the spirit/teaching, (My words are spirit said the Lord through his obedient servant, Jesus) but test them to find out if the spirit/teaching they have comes from God. For many false prophets have gone out everywhere. This is how you will be able to know if it is Gods spirit/word: anyone who acknowledges that Jesus came as a human being has the spirit/teaching, who comes from God. But anyone who denies this about Jesus does not have the spirit from God. The spirit that he has is from the enemy of the anointed one, the Anti-christ etc."

2nd letter of John verses 7-10;."Many deceivers have gone out all over the world, people who do not acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being. Such a person is a deceiver and an enemy of Christ."

If you would care to open your eyes, I'm sure that you will have little difficulty in finding the teaching of the anti-christ, which does not deny that Jesus had come, but which refused to acknowledge that Jesus was a true human being, who was born of the seed of Adam, and descended through the genetic line of David, which lie has been spread throughout the entire WORLD.

Over the centuries the false teaching of the anti-christ continued to evolve. But as the followers of the anti-christ became more enlightened and harder to deceive. In Alexandria, by the second century, Docetism, the concept that Jesus had existed as a spirit rather than a human being, had all but theoretically been stamped out.

But still, there persisted the belief that their false Jesus, although seen as a sort of human being, did not have our normal bodily needs, such as eating, drinking and having to go to the toilet, and Clement the bishop of Alexandria, wrote: "It would be ridiculous to imagine that the redeemer, in order to exist, had the usual needs of man. He only took food and ate it in order that we should not teach about him in a Docetic fashion." Satan must have been some sort of an idiot believing that this false Jesus of theirs, who had no need of food such as we human beings do, was starving hungry after a mere 40 days without food, who then tried to tempt him into turning stones into bread.

Their Jesus was not the Jesus as taught by the apostles, but that other Jesus, taught by the Anti-Christ, who unlike we mere HUMAN BEINGS, did not need to eat, drink, or go to the toilet, as was taught by one of the great teachers that the members of the universal church, loved to use as one of their authorities when trying to defend one of their false doctrines.

Saint Clement of Alexandria, who was a saint in the Martyrology of the Roman universal church of Emperor Constantine, in support of the great lie, speaks of the time that some imaginary midwife, (Which is not supported by scripture) who was supposed to be at the birth of Jesus, told some woman by the name Salome, that the mother was still a virgin after the birth and that her hymen was still intact, (Which is not supported by scripture) and that this supposed Salome, stuck her finger into the mother's vagina to check, and her hand immediately withered up, but the baby Jesus reached out and touched her hand and healed it. (What utter unadulterated crap)

Down to the 17th century Clement was venerated as a saint. His name was to be found in the Martyrologies, and his feast fell on December 4. But when the Roman Martyrology was revised by Clement VIII (Pope from 1592 to 1605), his name was dropped from the calendar on the advice of his confessor, Cardinal Baronius. Pope Benedict XIV in 1748 maintained his predecessor's decision on the grounds that Clements life was little-known; that he had never obtained public cultus in the Church; and that some of his doctrines were, if not erroneous, at least highly suspect.

Erroneous and highly suspect, you can say that again, but by then the great lie had become so entrenched in the minds of the gullible that their heads were so mixed up and set as hard as concrete, one would need a sledge hammer to shatter that conglomerate and allow the light of truth to shine in.

Clement, who lived between 150"211 AD was expressing a belief that was already firmly established by those who had abandoned the Jesus as taught by the apostles.

The Lord now has need of some good children of God, to root out the weeds that were planted by the Famous Prostitute and her harlot denominational daughters who have been brought up on her spiritual rubbish

1. Yes Jesus was talking about His church which Catholics pertain historical lineage to Peter and thus to Jesus. Whose teachings and practices and tradition rely on Jesus just as it resembles by those who lived after the apostles.

But here lies the issue. If the main church changed by which the leaders somehow changed their minds and change 180 at council of nicea, then continue until 14 15 hundreds when first reformation begins - you explain a situation where that church fails.

2. Error in explaining at least three areas.

a. I believe in one Catholic and Apostolic church. C.C. and all the Rites within can and does reference Apostolic teaching in reasoning and explaining tradition. This can be read:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

b. explaination to how Jesus is viewed is incorrect. No catholic teaching says he is not human. Can also be viewd in Chatechism.


c. I am not even sure what you are trying to say about the prophet Zacheriah. Jesus is being paid a majestic wage? Yet somehow this reads like a warning to Zachariah? harf.


Ill let other part be addressed later.
 

S-word

BANNED
Banned
1. Yes Jesus was talking about His church which Catholics pertain historical lineage to Peter and thus to Jesus. Whose teachings and practices and tradition rely on Jesus just as it resembles by those who lived after the apostles.

But here lies the issue. If the main church changed by which the leaders somehow changed their minds and change 180 at council of nicea, then continue until 14 15 hundreds when first reformation begins - you explain a situation where that church fails.

2. Error in explaining at least three areas.

a. I believe in one Catholic and Apostolic church. C.C. and all the Rites within can and does reference Apostolic teaching in reasoning and explaining tradition. This can be read:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

b. explaination to how Jesus is viewed is incorrect. No catholic teaching says he is not human. Can also be viewd in Chatechism.


c. I am not even sure what you are trying to say about the prophet Zacheriah. Jesus is being paid a majestic wage? Yet somehow this reads like a warning to Zachariah? harf.


Ill let other part be addressed later.

It was not the man Jesus who was paid the majestic wage of thirty pieces of Silver, It was the Lord who filled him with his spirit that descended upon him in the form of a dove as the heavenly voice was heard to say, "You are my son, 'THIS DAY' I have begotten thee."

And it was the Lord who told us through his prophet Zechariah, that after he had been valued at thirty pieces of silver, he was going to raise up in the land a worthless shepherd, which is the Roman Church of Emperor Constantine. Unless you know of some other shepherd of Gods people, who was risen up to guide God's stubborn flock, after he was valued at thirty pieces of silver.

As to the rest of your post, you are entitled to believe any non-biblical rubbish that you choose to. If you are gullible enough to believe that some nameless alien life form who was the co-creator of the entire cosmos with his father who was actually who that nameless alien was, who came down to earth and entered the womb of some supposedly ever virgin and created for itself a human like body that was not of the seed of the original human being and therefore was not a human being, then that is your right.

Was your Jesus 100% human and born of the seed of the original human being?

But if I were you, I would heed the warning of the Lord, concerning the great prostitute who sits upon the seven hills of Rome, she who is called 'Babylon the Great'. Revelation 18: 4.

Come out of her my people do not share her sins
You must not share her punishment, her judgement day has come
Her sins are piled to heaven and God recalls her evil ways,
She says, "I am no widow and I'll never see the grave."
Because of that, in just one day, disease will strike her down
Plaques and famine she'll receive til finally she'll be burned.
You must pay her back twofold for all that she has done
Fill her cup as she filled yours, but make it twice as strong.
For all the glory she has claimed and all her luxury
Must be repaid this very day with pain and misery.
 

S-word

BANNED
Banned
Same can be said for any human group through out history. Anyone can provide the names and years of individuals who acted as they wished - opposite to what they claimed.

for example, the thousands who murdered blacks, italians, hespanics, native americans, and irish for being of a "lower kind" whilst waiving a bible and a white hoodie.

What is important is understanding acts of individuals vs. acts of a church. Otherwise I may as well condemn christianity as a whole.

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk

randomvim wrote.........Same can be said for any human group through out history. Anyone can provide the names and years of individuals who acted as they wished - opposite to what they claimed.

S-word.......But we are talking about a group who claim to be the peace loving body of Christ, who live by his commands to love thine enemy.

randomvim wrote........for example, the thousands who murdered blacks, italians, hespanics, native americans, and irish for being of a "lower kind" whilst waiving a bible and a white hoodie.

S-word........ But we are not talking about are the thousands who murdered blacks, Italians, Hespanics, native Americans, and Irish for being of a "lower kind" whilst waiving a bible and a white hoodie: we are talking about a group who claim to be the peace loving body of Christ, who live by his commands to love thine enemy.

randomvim wrote........ What is important is understanding acts of individuals vs. acts of a church. Otherwise I may as well condemn christianity as a whole.

S-word........What did the Lord say through his prophet Zechariah, (see Zechariah 11: 12-17.) concerning the worthless shepherd that he was going to raise up in the land after he was valued at thirty pieces of silver? "And his right eye will I turn blind." The Pope who claims to be the shepherd of God's people, must have turned his head to one side, in order to turn the blind eye to the atrocities that were committed by his church.

Sent from my old run down, near clapped out computer.
 

Truster

New member
Here Jeremiah warns that the Old Testament has been tampered with.
Jeremiah 8:8
“‘How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

Either, the first 5 books of the OT are not accurate, as you claim. Or you, like the scribes, are lying in your suggested interpretation. I'm going with the latter. There is an agreeable and enlightening comment by Theodore Haak in his translation of the Staten Bible in which he gives Matt 23:13, Luke 11:52 and Romans 2:17,18 as examples of the scribes behaviour.This behaviour in no way resulted in the contamination of the scripture only their interpretation of it.
 

randomvim

New member
It was not the man Jesus who was paid the majestic wage of thirty pieces of Silver, It was the Lord who filled him with his spirit that descended upon him in the form of a dove as the heavenly voice was heard to say, "You are my son, 'THIS DAY' I have begotten thee."

And it was the Lord who told us through his prophet Zechariah, that after he had been valued at thirty pieces of silver, he was going to raise up in the land a worthless shepherd, which is the Roman Church of Emperor Constantine. Unless you know of some other shepherd of Gods people, who was risen up to guide God's stubborn flock, after he was valued at thirty pieces of silver.

As to the rest of your post, you are entitled to believe any non-biblical rubbish that you choose to. If you are gullible enough to believe that some nameless alien life form who was the co-creator of the entire cosmos with his father who was actually who that nameless alien was, who came down to earth and entered the womb of some supposedly ever virgin and created for itself a human like body that was not of the seed of the original human being and therefore was not a human being, then that is your right.

Was your Jesus 100% human and born of the seed of the original human being?

But if I were you, I would heed the warning of the Lord, concerning the great prostitute who sits upon the seven hills of Rome, she who is called 'Babylon the Great'. Revelation 18: 4.

Come out of her my people do not share her sins
You must not share her punishment, her judgement day has come
Her sins are piled to heaven and God recalls her evil ways,
She says, "I am no widow and I'll never see the grave."
Because of that, in just one day, disease will strike her down
Plaques and famine she'll receive til finally she'll be burned.
You must pay her back twofold for all that she has done
Fill her cup as she filled yours, but make it twice as strong.
For all the glory she has claimed and all her luxury
Must be repaid this very day with pain and misery.

1. this is the issue in your posts. you make it up. No one nor is there any statement that uses the term alien accept maybe the most recent articles about immigrants OR interstellar life. Nothing in regards to Gospel or Jesus include the term nor reference any sort of being that could be described under the term "alien."

your use of this term only indicates ignorance. I dont think God would need false information to guide us to Him. ergo, regardless to intent, presenting false information would not aid in your point of view.

2a. As for the whore remark...Vatican is not built on 7 hills. a geographical map will help with that one.

2b. oh my, the sins she has committed. Well if we were practical gentlemen we'd recognize individuals abused the church whilst going against C.C. teachings which again are straight from Jesus, following OT tradition, flowing into NT tradition and has been elaborated and explained by various minds (theologians and philisophers alike). But imprtant to remark that despite allogations, scandals, etc. - which I agree are not good - the C.C. has been able to maintain in Christ.

3. Jesus is 100% human and 100% God.
 

randomvim

New member
randomvim wrote.........Same can be said for any human group through out history. Anyone can provide the names and years of individuals who acted as they wished - opposite to what they claimed.

S-word.......But we are talking about a group who claim to be the peace loving body of Christ, who live by his commands to love thine enemy.

randomvim wrote........for example, the thousands who murdered blacks, italians, hespanics, native americans, and irish for being of a "lower kind" whilst waiving a bible and a white hoodie.

S-word........ But we are not talking about are the thousands who murdered blacks, Italians, Hespanics, native Americans, and Irish for being of a "lower kind" whilst waiving a bible and a white hoodie: we are talking about a group who claim to be the peace loving body of Christ, who live by his commands to love thine enemy.

randomvim wrote........ What is important is understanding acts of individuals vs. acts of a church. Otherwise I may as well condemn christianity as a whole.

S-word........What did the Lord say through his prophet Zechariah, (see Zechariah 11: 12-17.) concerning the worthless shepherd that he was going to raise up in the land after he was valued at thirty pieces of silver? "And his right eye will I turn blind." The Pope who claims to be the shepherd of God's people, must have turned his head to one side, in order to turn the blind eye to the atrocities that were committed by his church.

Sent from my old run down, near clapped out computer.

Oh sorry. Are we not well knowledged in your own county's history? how about history of all nations? how have they come to be in power?

Otherwise to excuse the actions of other groups - even if we are not "talking about" the christians who killed various peoples because of racism or other prejudices then how might we provide adequate and just views on any group of people?

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk
 

CherubRam

New member
Either, the first 5 books of the OT are not accurate, as you claim. Or you, like the scribes, are lying in your suggested interpretation. I'm going with the latter. There is an agreeable and enlightening comment by Theodore Haak in his translation of the Staten Bible in which he gives Matt 23:13, Luke 11:52 and Romans 2:17,18 as examples of the scribes behaviour.This behaviour in no way resulted in the contamination of the scripture only their interpretation of it.
Example:

[FONT=&quot]A Body You Have Prepared For Me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Psalm 40 commentary.
N.I.V. foot note for [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Psalms 40:6[/FONT][FONT=&quot] reads:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “Hebrew; Septuagint: but a body you have prepared for me. (See also Symmachus and Theodotion)” End of quote. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Symmachus the Ebonite was a late 2nd century author of one of the Greek versions of the Old Testament.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Theodotion 200 A.D.
Theodotion was a Jewish scholar, perhaps working in Ephesus, who translated the Hebrew Bible into Greek. Whether he was revising the Septuagint, or was working from Hebrew manuscripts that represented a parallel tradition that has not survived, and is debated. His finished version, which filled some lacunae in the Septuagint version of the Book of Jeremiah and Book of Job, formed one column in Origen's Hexapla. (The Hexapla presented six Hebrew and Greek texts side-by-side: two Greek versions, by Aquila of Sinope and Symmachus, preceding the Septuagint, and Theodotian's version following it, apparently reflecting a contemporary understanding of their historical sequence.

Theodotion's translation was so widely copied in the Early Christian church, that it superseded the Septuagint Book of Daniel. Jerome, in his preface to Daniel records the rejection of the Septuagint version in Christian usage, asserting that its translation was very faulty.

Although Theodotion was Anti-Christ, it may not have occurred to him to change the Hebrew Psalm script from reading: “But a body you have prepared for me.” In [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Hebrews 10:5[/FONT][FONT=&quot] the verse is also repeated. “Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;”…

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]1 Peter 3:18[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit.

Orthodox Jews claim that He (God) would not father a child upon a human woman. So, the idea of Christ being a human, fathered by the Holy Spirit is not 'impossible', it would just prove God to be a liar. If the lineage goes through Mary, it does not count because tribal lineage only goes through the father, while national lineage only goes through the mother. If it goes through Joseph, it does not count, because Joseph was not his father.


I would like to state that Christians never claimed that God procreated through Mary, but that He (God) created a body in the linage of David. I do not think that that linage ruling was in effect at the time of Christ birth.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]2 John 1:7[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Yahshua Messiah as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]1 John 2:22[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Yahshua is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. 23. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24. See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25. And this is what he even promised us—eternal life.
26. I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Masoretes Version[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Psalms 40:6[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but my ears you have pierced;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
burnt offerings and sin offerings
you did not require.
7. Then I said, "Here I am, I have come—
it is written about me in the scroll.


If those who are the Anti-Christ deny that the Messiah would come in bodily form, then it is very likely for them to have changed the Hebrew text of [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Psalms 40:6[/FONT][FONT=&quot] to read:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “but my ears you have pierced”…[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Long before the Christian era the scripture read: "a body you have prepared for me." The Masoretes Version is a late entry into the bible.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
 

randomvim

New member
Example:

[FONT=&quot]A Body You Have Prepared For Me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Psalm 40 commentary.
N.I.V. foot note for [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Psalms 40:6[/FONT][FONT=&quot] reads:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “Hebrew; Septuagint: but a body you have prepared for me. (See also Symmachus and Theodotion)” End of quote. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Symmachus the Ebonite was a late 2nd century author of one of the Greek versions of the Old Testament.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Theodotion 200 A.D.
Theodotion was a Jewish scholar, perhaps working in Ephesus, who translated the Hebrew Bible into Greek. Whether he was revising the Septuagint, or was working from Hebrew manuscripts that represented a parallel tradition that has not survived, and is debated. His finished version, which filled some lacunae in the Septuagint version of the Book of Jeremiah and Book of Job, formed one column in Origen's Hexapla. (The Hexapla presented six Hebrew and Greek texts side-by-side: two Greek versions, by Aquila of Sinope and Symmachus, preceding the Septuagint, and Theodotian's version following it, apparently reflecting a contemporary understanding of their historical sequence.

Theodotion's translation was so widely copied in the Early Christian church, that it superseded the Septuagint Book of Daniel. Jerome, in his preface to Daniel records the rejection of the Septuagint version in Christian usage, asserting that its translation was very faulty.

Although Theodotion was Anti-Christ, it may not have occurred to him to change the Hebrew Psalm script from reading: “But a body you have prepared for me.” In [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Hebrews 10:5[/FONT][FONT=&quot] the verse is also repeated. “Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;”…

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]1 Peter 3:18[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit.

Orthodox Jews claim that He (God) would not father a child upon a human woman. So, the idea of Christ being a human, fathered by the Holy Spirit is not 'impossible', it would just prove God to be a liar. If the lineage goes through Mary, it does not count because tribal lineage only goes through the father, while national lineage only goes through the mother. If it goes through Joseph, it does not count, because Joseph was not his father.


I would like to state that Christians never claimed that God procreated through Mary, but that He (God) created a body in the linage of David. I do not think that that linage ruling was in effect at the time of Christ birth.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]2 John 1:7[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Yahshua Messiah as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]1 John 2:22[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Yahshua is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. 23. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24. See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25. And this is what he even promised us—eternal life.
26. I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Masoretes Version[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Psalms 40:6[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but my ears you have pierced;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
burnt offerings and sin offerings
you did not require.
7. Then I said, "Here I am, I have come—
it is written about me in the scroll.


If those who are the Anti-Christ deny that the Messiah would come in bodily form, then it is very likely for them to have changed the Hebrew text of [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Psalms 40:6[/FONT][FONT=&quot] to read:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “but my ears you have pierced”…[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Long before the Christian era the scripture read: "a body you have prepared for me." The Masoretes Version is a late entry into the bible.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

1. it is possible for orthodox jews to make a claim about God that had not been made in scripture or presented by prophets. If they are incorrect as to whether or not God could or would reincarnate through natural law - being birthed by St. Mary - then God is not false or lying. please dont beg fhe question.

2. lineage.
you provide your own exception to how Jesus would be considered within the lineage of David. Those who claim this lineage do so through Mary. Basing information on Jewish traditon vs. any or all tribal traditions which vary from people to people. may you verify and clarify your position?


Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk
 

CherubRam

New member
"Son of David" is a Messianic title in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy.


2 Samuel 7:12-16. NIV
12 When your days are over and you rest with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, your own flesh and blood, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with a rod wielded by men, with floggings inflicted by human hands. 15 But my love will never be taken away from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you. 16 Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me; your throne will be established forever.’”




Luke 2:4
So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to Bethlehem the town of David, because he belonged to the house and line of David.

Matthew 1:1
[ The Genealogy of Jesus the Messiah ] This is the genealogy of Yahshua the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham:

Matthew 1:20
But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 9:27
[ Jesus Heals the Blind and the Mute ] As Jesus went on from there, two blind men followed him, calling out, “Have mercy on us, Son of David!”

Matthew 12:23
All the people were astonished and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”

Matthew 15:22
A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.

Matthew 20:30
Two blind men were sitting by the roadside, and when they heard that Jesus was going by, they shouted, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on us!”

Matthew 20:31
The crowd rebuked them and told them to be quiet, but they shouted all the louder, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on us!”

Matthew 21:9
The crowds that went ahead of him and those that followed shouted, “Hosanna to the Son of David!” “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!” “Hosanna in the highest heaven!”

Matthew 21:15
But when the chief priests and the teachers of the law saw the wonderful things he did and the children shouting in the temple courts, “Hosanna to the Son of David,” they were indignant.

Matthew 22:42
“What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?” “The son of David,” they replied.

Mark 10:47
When he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to shout, “Yahshua, Son of David, have mercy on me!”

Mark 10:48
Many rebuked him and told him to be quiet, but he shouted all the more, “Son of David, have mercy on me!”

Mark 12:35
[ Whose Son Is the Messiah? ] While Jesus was teaching in the temple courts, he asked, “Why do the teachers of the law say that the Messiah is the son of David?

Luke 3:31
the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David,

Luke 18:38
He called out, “Yahshua, Son of David, have mercy on me!”

Luke 18:39
Those who led the way rebuked him and told him to be quiet, but he shouted all the more, “Son of David, have mercy on me!”

Luke 20:41
[ Whose Son Is the Messiah? ] Then Yahshua said to them, “Why is it said that the Messiah is the son of David?

Isaiah 16:5
In love a throne will be established; in faithfulness a man will sit on it— one from the house of David— one who in judging seeks justice and speeds the cause of righteousness.
Isaiah 22:22
I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.

Jeremiah 23:5
“The days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land.

Jeremiah 30:9
Instead, they will serve the LORD their God and David their king, whom I will raise up for them.

Jeremiah 33:17
For this is what the LORD says: ‘David will never fail to have a man to sit on the throne of Israel,

Jeremiah 33:21
then my covenant with David my servant—and my covenant with the Levites who are priests ministering before me—can be broken and David will no longer have a descendant to reign on his throne.

Jeremiah 33:22
I will make the descendants of David my servant and the Levites who minister before me as countless as the stars in the sky and as measureless as the sand on the seashore.’”

Ezekiel 34:23
I will place over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd.

Ezekiel 34:24
I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David will be prince among them. I the LORD have spoken.

Ezekiel 37:24
“‘My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees.

Ezekiel 37:25
They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your ancestors lived. They and their children and their children’s children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever.

Hosea 3:5
Afterward the Israelites will return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They will come trembling to the LORD and to his blessings in the last days.

Zechariah 12:10
[ Mourning for the One They Pierced ] “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

Rom 1:3. Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Rom 1:4. And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Yahshua is David's lord.



The bible says that Christ is a son of David (The King.) Joseph was also a royal descendant of David. I presume that God made Christ body after the lineage of King David.
Jeremiah 33:17
For this is what the Lord says: ‘David will never fail to have a man to sit on the throne of Israel,

Jeremiah 33:18
nor will the Levitical priests ever fail to have a man to stand before me continually to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings and to present sacrifices.’
 
Top