Is there a risk of death from the covid vaccine?

expos4ever

Well-known member
Masks are as effective as screen doors on a submarine, or putting up a chain link fence to keep mosquitos out.
Nice thought-stopping slogan. Here is what the science says - from the proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences:

The preponderance of evidence indicates that mask wearing reduces transmissibility per contact by reducing transmission of infected respiratory particles in both laboratory and clinical contexts.
 

expos4ever

Well-known member
More than 150 people have died and nearly 600 have been hospitalized in Illinois due to COVID-19 in "breakthrough" cases after they were fully vaccinated, according to state health officials.
According to data updated Wednesday by the Illinois Department of Public Health, 159 people in Illinois have died due to COVID-19 or complications after being fully vaccinated.
Yes, and.....?

How many unvaccinated people have gotten very sick and / or died in the same time period

Answer: over 6,700.

You twit.
 

marke

Well-known member
Yes, and.....?

How many unvaccinated people have gotten very sick and / or died in the same time period

Answer: over 6,700.

You twit.
How many of the unvaccinated people could have been saved by a vaccine which has been proven to be incapable of preventing covid in the vaccinated? How many additional doses of the vaccine are government officials now claiming will have to be administered in hopes of successfully immunizing people against covid? It appears that government-endorsed professionals don't know but are willing to make suggestions that they hope people will accept without scientific proof.
 

marke

Well-known member
Nice thought-stopping slogan. Here is what the science says - from the proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences:

The preponderance of evidence indicates that mask wearing reduces transmissibility per contact by reducing transmission of infected respiratory particles in both laboratory and clinical contexts.
It should surprise nobody that scientists dependent upon government money will propagate the government lie even if it means parsing words to make it appear they support the government narrative when in reality only the blind or ignorant actually do.
 

marke

Well-known member
Welcome to the echo chamber that is the internet. People whose ideas would not stand up to scrutiny in the broader society can find little safe spaces where their fringe thinking is allowed to metastasize.

Let me illustrate by just one example: We have at least one poster here who systematically mixes up correlation with causation. If a student in a university classroom claimed that the 5,000 deaths in the VAERS database (which registers adverse events that follow a vaccination) demonstrates that the vaccine caused these deaths, he would be laughed out of the classroom. And rightly so.

But here, of course, this error is applauded and promoted.
Poor students of science think that now that vaccines have been introduced only those who have been vaccinated will be immunized against covid, which is not even remotely true. Just as millions of people did not get covid before the vaccine came out, now millions of people still have not gotten covid without being vaccinated, proving their health is not due to the vaccine. Not only that but thousands of those who have been vaccinated have still contracted covid, proving the vaccine does not prevent covid infections.
 

marke

Well-known member
I understand mistrust of the government but this is nonsense about the vaccine not effecting much and the death rate being the same between vaccinated and unvaccinated groups is simply delusional! You don't have to look anywhere else than in your very own state, indeed likely your own county, perhaps even you own city (certainly the nearest major city) to know for an absolute undeniable FACT that the vaccine affects a very great deal! The only people at any appreciable risk of dying of COVID are people who have not already had the virus and have not been vaccinated.

Look, this is stupidity. The whole conversation is stupid and I'm stupid for participating in it. You guys are going to believe whatever stupid nonsense that suits your fancy no matter what anyone says anyway so just go do so.

I am well and truly finished with this thread. I'm unsubscribing to it and won't post a single additional syllable in it. You guys feel free to turn it into whatever sort of echo chamber you like..

Clete
How can supporters prove the vaccine is responsible for falling covid death rates since so many people have not yet been vaccinated, so many of those who have been vaccinated have still contracted covid, and death rates were already falling before the vaccine came out?
 

expos4ever

Well-known member
The Incompetent in Chief: We do not trust facts - just narratives.
Are you asking me to provide readers with evidence of your many, many lies? More than happy to do so, although it will be a daunting task inasmuch the target environment is so rich.
 

expos4ever

Well-known member
How many of the unvaccinated people could have been saved by a vaccine which has been proven to be incapable of preventing covid in the vaccinated?
What in the world does this word salad mean? It almost seems as if you are suggesting that because the vaccine is not 100 % effective, it is not worth taking.

That would, of course, be incredibly dumb.
 

expos4ever

Well-known member
It should surprise nobody that scientists dependent upon government money will propagate the government lie even if it means parsing words to make it appear they support the government narrative when in reality only the blind or ignorant actually do.
What utter nonsense. If certain facts do not align with your world view, you simply pull out the conspiracy theories.
 

marke

Well-known member
What in the world does this word salad mean? It almost seems as if you are suggesting that because the vaccine is not 100 % effective, it is not worth taking.

That would, of course, be incredibly dumb.
No, I am saying that since so many vaccinated individuals have contracted covid after being vaccinated the conclusion must be that the vaccination is not all that its proponents say it is.

The latest update from the state Department of Public Health comes as coronavirus metrics continue to creep up in the Bay State while the more contagious Delta variant keeps spreading in the U.S.
The so-called breakthrough cases — where fully vaccinated individuals test positive for coronavirus — have so far been rare, but are possible. And should even be expected, per the CDC.
As of July 17, a total of 5,166 breakthrough cases had been reported to the state DPH. Of those, 272 people were hospitalized and survived. Of the 80 people who died, 23 died without being hospitalized; 57 died following a hospital stay.
 

marke

Well-known member
What utter nonsense. If certain facts do not align with your world view, you simply pull out the conspiracy theories.
Unfounded faith in the honesty and integrity of government-paid workers is not wise, especially when the government is promoting lies instead of truth. Articles like these provide reasons not to trust those working under government grants who are under pressure to hide government missteps.

On February 19, 2020, The Lancet, among the most respected and influential medical journals in the world, published a statement that roundly rejected the lab-leak hypothesis, effectively casting it as a xenophobic cousin to climate change denialism and anti-vaxxism. Signed by 27 scientists, the statement expressed “solidarity with all scientists and health professionals in China” and asserted: “We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin.” ...
A months long Vanity Fair investigation, interviews with more than 40 people, and a review of hundreds of pages of U.S. government documents, including internal memos, meeting minutes, and email correspondence, found that conflicts of interest, stemming in part from large government grants supporting controversial virology research, hampered the U.S. investigation into COVID-19’s origin at every step. In one State Department meeting, officials seeking to demand transparency from the Chinese government say they were explicitly told by colleagues not to explore the Wuhan Institute of Virology’s gain-of-function research, because it would bring unwelcome attention to U.S. government funding of it. ...
Then came the revelation that the Lancet statement was not only signed but organized by a zoologist named Peter Daszak, who has repackaged U.S. government grants and allocated them to facilities conducting gain-of-function research—among them the WIV itself. David Asher, now a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute, ran the State Department’s day-to-day COVID-19 origins inquiry. He said it soon became clear that “there is a huge gain-of-function bureaucracy” inside the federal government. ...
As officials at the meeting discussed what they could share with the public, they were advised by Christopher Park, the director of the State Department’s Biological Policy Staff in the Bureau of International Security and Nonproliferation, not to say anything that would point to the U.S. government’s own role in gain-of-function research, according to documentation of the meeting obtained by Vanity Fair.
Only two other labs in the world, in Texas and North Carolina, were doing similar research. “It’s not a dozen cities,” Dr. Richard Ebright said. “It’s three places.”
Some of the attendees were “absolutely floored,” said an official familiar with the proceedings. That someone in the U.S. government could “make an argument that is so nakedly against transparency, in light of the unfolding catastrophe, was…shocking and disturbing.”
 

User Name

Well-known member
High-profile Republicans are switching from a previous vaccine hesitant stance and now urging Americans to get their COVID-19 vaccines, as soon as possible.

Only two weeks ago at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) in Dallas, attendees cheered and clapped that Biden had not been able to"sucker" people and had missed his goal of vaccinating 70% of adults. Vaccine hesitancy on the right had metastasized into outright hostility.

But the mood music has changed again as the Delta variant rips through the red states where low vaccination rates are filling hospital ICU's at an alarming rate.

On Thursday, Gov. Kay Ivey of Alabama, who for much of the coronavirus pandemic resisted public-health measures, criticized her state's unvaccinated population.

"I don't know, you tell me," she said when asked what it would take to get more people vaccinated. "Folks supposed to have common sense. But it's time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks, not the regular folks. It's the unvaccinated folks that are letting us down."

Alabama has the fourth-lowest vaccination rate nationwide, according to a New York Times tracker.

 

User Name

Well-known member
Sen. Ron Johnson: Data from Israel Shows 84% of New COVID Cases are with Vaccinated Individuals

The Delta variant, according to data from Israel (where 80 percent of adults are fully vaccinated), has proven a more challenging immunization target. While the Pfizer vaccine protected 93 percent of immunized Israelis from hospitalization and death, nearly 40 percent were still vulnerable to infection. The British government reported that for symptomatic infection, that rate was about 12 percent. And a recently published study, conducted through May and June in Guangzhou, China, begins to illustrate why.

The study gathered viral samples from 62 Covid-19 patients who were infected during the first Delta outbreak in mainland China and cross-analyzed them with those of 63 individuals infected in 2020 with a prior strain. It focused on two epidemiological parameters that, when it comes to determining infectivity, are particularly telling. The first is viral load, or the amount of virus particles replicating in the respiratory tract. The second is the amount of time that elapses between the moment of exposure to the moment of detection via PCR or antigen test.

On both fronts the findings were startling. The viral load of patients infected with the Delta variant was about 1,000 times as high. And on average, it took four days for viral titers in these patients to replicate to detectable levels—a full 48 hours sooner than last year’s strain.

 
Top