Is Obedience a Condition of Salvation?

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
OZOS wrote: "NO ONE has eternal life until AFTER Jesus dies on the cross, is raised from the dead and the Holy Spirit is given to dwell in those who believe or have believe

You continue to deny the plain words of the lord Jesus here:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5;24).

The Greek words translated "believes" and "has" are in the present tense which means that when the Lord Jesus walked the earth those who were believing had eternal life right then and there. The Lord Jesus also said that those believing at that time are "crossed from death unto life."

According to the Lord Jesus believers were receiving eternal life while he still walked the earth. But OZOS denies the Lord's plain words.
 

OZOS

Well-known member
OZOS wrote: "NO ONE has eternal life until AFTER Jesus dies on the cross, is raised from the dead and the Holy Spirit is given to dwell in those who believe or have believe

You continue to deny the plain words of the lord Jesus here:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5;24).

The Greek words translated "believes" and "has" are in the present tense which means that when the Lord Jesus walked the earth those who were believing had eternal life right then and there. The Lord Jesus also said that those believing at that time are "crossed from death unto life."

According to the Lord Jesus believers were receiving eternal life while he still walked the earth. But OZOS denies the Lord's plain words.
Nope, I affirm the words of Jesus, and have every single time you've quoted them.

Whosoever hears the the words of Jesus and believes Him who sent Him, has eternal life, will not be judged, and has crossed over from death to life. That is an absolute promise, from Jesus. Just like the following...

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father."

Once again, Jesus says "He who believes in me" and He affirms what will happen... they will do greater works! When? When He goes to the Father.

So, according to Jerry, Jesus is lying here, because every time Jesus says "He who believes in me" the believer will receive what Jesus said at that very moment.

Here is another example...

"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified."


Just as the verse you quoted affirms what happens when someone believes, so does this verse, but Jesus elaborates here, and not in your verse. I'm sure Jesus thinks your an idiot for thinking that He had to add "But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified." every time He said "He who believes in Me".

Thankfully, Jesus made it easy, for false teachers, like you, to be exposed.

The apostle Paul is perfectly clear that ONLY those who have the Spirit dwelling in them, belong to Him. According to the pervert, Jerry, men have eternal life without having the Spirit of God dwelling in them or that they belong to Jesus.

"But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. " Romans 8:9

Jerry calls Jesus and Paul "liars", and claims that someone can have eternal life without the Holy Spirit. He does this, because he knows that he does not have the Holy Spirit, and he falsely claims that he has eternal life.

Either is Paul is lying in this verse, or Jerry is. Anyone who believes in Jesus, knows it's Jerry.

Jerry contradicts himself, and is too stupid to realize it...

According to the Lord Jesus the Holy Spirit would not be sent until the Lord Jesus departed the earth:

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you" (Jn.16:7).

I have quoted this same verse to Jerry many times, and he still claims that men can have eternal life without the Holy Spirit, which contradicts what Paul said in Romans 8:9

Jerry is a double-minded buffoon.

He repeatedly says that ONLY the CLV is a correct translation of the Bible, which was devised by one man, a cultist by the name of A.E. Knoch.

Jerry is on this site to recruit followers to his ant-Christ cult. Don't be deceived by him.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
OZOS wrote: "He repeatedly says that ONLY the CLV is a correct translation of the Bible, which was devised by one man, a cultist by the name of A.E. Knoch."

I merely pointed out that in the case of John 20;22 the CLV got it right:

It is not possible that the following translation is correct:

"And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit."(John20:22).

The Lord Jesus had not yet gone away to heaven, and He said that the Holy spirit will not come unto the disciples until He departed:


"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you" (Jn.16:7).

So John 20;22 is a mis-translation. here is a correct translation:

"And saying this, He exhales and is saying to them, "Get holy spirit!" (Jn.20:22; CLV).

If there is no definite article ('the') preceding the Greek words translated "holy spirit" then the reference is not the Third Person of the Godhead.
 
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