Is believing/faith a work ?

marke

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It is based on scripture. The greek word for work used in scripture is ergon, which means:

  1. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

What can be more plainer than that ?
Believing God is not a work. That is what the Bible teaches. The Bible does not teach that God rejects human belief and acceptance of His word as if it is some sort of despicable human work. That is nonsense.

Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
 

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Believing God is not a work. That is what the Bible teaches. The Bible does not teach that God rejects human belief and acceptance of His word as if it is some sort of despicable human work. That is nonsense.

Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
The clear contrast in that verse between work and believing cannot be missed. But some still miss it.
 

marke

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The clear contrast in that verse between work and believing cannot be missed. But some still miss it.
Exactly. What do 5-Pointers imagine God thinks about Paul's answer to the question, "What must I do to be saved?" Should Paul have responded, "You are cursed if you think there is anything you can do to be saved." ??

Acts 16:30
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
 

JudgeRightly

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It is based on scripture. The greek word for work used in scripture is ergon, which means:

  1. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

What can be more plainer than that ?

It's not based on scripture. Just because you're using a word from scripture doesn't mean your interpretation of it is from scripture.

Again:

Scripturally, a "work" is something done in order to achieve salvation, or to get to heaven.

Faith/believing is NOT done in order to obtain those things, therefore it CANNOT, by definition, be a work.
 

beloved57

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It's not based on scripture. Just because you're using a word from scripture doesn't mean your interpretation of it is from scripture.

Again:

Scripturally, a "work" is something done in order to achieve salvation, or to get to heaven.

Faith/believing is NOT done in order to obtain those things, therefore it CANNOT, by definition, be a work.
It is based on scripture, the greek word ergon !
 

JudgeRightly

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It is based on scripture, the greek word ergon !

No, that's just a word. You're not only missing the forest for the trees, YOU'RE COMPLETELY IGNORING THE FOREST!

Scripturally, a "work" is something done in order to achieve salvation, or to get to heaven.

Faith/believing is NOT done in order to obtain those things, therefore it CANNOT, by definition, be a work.
 

benben

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Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
 

beloved57

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No, that's just a word. You're not only missing the forest for the trees, YOU'RE COMPLETELY IGNORING THE FOREST!

Scripturally, a "work" is something done in order to achieve salvation, or to get to heaven.

Faith/believing is NOT done in order to obtain those things, therefore it CANNOT, by definition, be a work.
Its just a word ? Its the word of God inspired.
 

JudgeRightly

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Its just a word?

Yes, b57, ergon is just a word.

Its the word of God inspired.

Now you're equivocating. I'm talking about scripture. You're referring to a single word that is used in scripture. A single word can be used in different ways, and the meaning can change based on the context. And, based on the context of the entire Bible...:

Scripturally, a "work" is something done in order to achieve salvation, or to get to heaven.

Faith/believing is NOT done in order to obtain those things, therefore it CANNOT, by definition, be a work.
 

beloved57

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When the Jailer in Acts 16:30 asked what must I do to be saved,

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

He wasnt asking about what qualifying action he do to get himself saved, for he never used the word get as in get saved, but he used the word be, as be saved. The words be saved here are in the passive voice wherein the subject is the recipient of the action, for he was speaking from a frame of helplessness, hopelessness. Pauls response was not that he should do, act, or perform but to believe, that's promoting Faith and not works. Paul knew that believing was the Gift of God, that is, to believe in Christ savingly wasn't a natural inherent quality of the natural man, believing is having been given the Gift of Faith Eph 2:8. Paul testified to the fact that believing on Christ was something God gives here Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

That word given is basically the same word for grace charizomai derived from and the middle voice of charis translated 130 times in the NT as Grace.

So people believe because of Grace Acts 18:27.

So now even though technically believing is a doing, which technically is a work, nobody has the ability to believe until God by Grace, by Grace doing, its Gods Grace and Spirit working in the Spirit sanctified sinner causing the sinner to believe. No man by nature can truly believe in Christ as Saviour without first being saved by Grace and given the gift of Faith, so it is written 1 Pet 1:21

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Phil 2:13

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

The do the Jailer needed to do to be saved, God needed to first worketh in him to do.

So thats how Salvation by works and Faith can be scripturally contrasted, when credit is given to Grace for a person doing the believing, and believing wasn't a natural freewill ability they had of themselves prior to regeneration.

But if we insist that believing was a condition we met prior to being saved by grace, and we did it as natural men, and as a result, God saved us, that's making believing, faith a work we do for salvation.
 

beloved57

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Yes, b57, ergon is just a word.



Now you're equivocating. I'm talking about scripture. You're referring to a single word that is used in scripture. A single word can be used in different ways, and the meaning can change based on the context. And, based on the context of the entire Bible...:

Scripturally, a "work" is something done in order to achieve salvation, or to get to heaven.

Faith/believing is NOT done in order to obtain those things, therefore it CANNOT, by definition, be a work.
I dont know about you, but i believe every word is inspired by God 2 Tim 3:16

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Prov 30:5

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

Ps 12:6

The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Now the word works in Eph 2:9 I believe to be the words of the Lord, and should be carefully pondered and derive its fullest meaning.
 

marke

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When the Jailer in Acts 16:30 asked what must I do to be saved,

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

He wasnt asking about what qualifying action he do to get himself saved, for he never used the word get as in get saved, but he used the word be, as be saved.
5-Pointers twist passages into weird contortions in order to preserve the only Bible doctrine they focus on, which is election.

Of course the jailer was asking what he must do to be saved from sins and judgment, to which Paul correctly responded, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."

Acts 16

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
 

marke

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I dont know about you, but i believe every word is inspired by God 2 Tim 3:16

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Prov 30:5

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

Ps 12:6

The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Now the word works in Eph 2:9 I believe to be the words of the Lord, and should be carefully pondered and derive its fullest meaning.
God's word is pure. Men's false interpretations of God's word are not pure.
 

beloved57

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The born again believer was granted God given Faith by Grace, in order to believe in Jesus Christ for his or her Salvation, so believing in this regard is not a work of man but a Gift from God to him by Grace.
 

marke

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The born again believer was granted God given Faith by Grace, in order to believe in Jesus Christ for his or her Salvation, so believing in this regard is not a work of man but a Gift from God to him by Grace.
God does not pervert justice as a crooked judge might. There are fair and just reasons for which God either condemns or forgives a sinner and those reasons are not secret. Those who believe and receive the truth will be given the power to be saved.

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Those who are condemned are not condemned for some secret reason known only to God. The condemned are condemned for willfully rejecting the truth when they know better. They are not bound by design at birth to be unable to believe and receive the truth as some wrongly assume.

John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
 

JudgeRightly

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I dont know about you, but i believe

What you believe is not always what is true. Please keep that in mind.

every word is inspired by God

Well, not quite.

What the verse says is, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God..."

Meaning the authors of the Bible, from Moses to John the Beloved, were inspired by God, and under inspiration, wrote what they wrote.

What it does NOT mean is that the authors wrote exactly what God wanted them to write because he predestined them to write it.

2 Tim 3:16

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

AMEN!

Prov 30:5

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

Amen. But now you're cherry picking, and twisting a verse to suit your argument. Shame on you.

"Every word" in Proverbs 30:5 is not talking about the Bible. It's not talking about Scripture, specifically. It's talking about the words that literally come from God.

Ps 12:6

The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Same as above. Shame on you for twisting scripture to fit your argument.

Now the word works in Eph 2:9 I believe to be the words of the Lord, and should be carefully pondered and derive its fullest meaning.

Then you should agree with the following statement, because it includes ALL of scripture as its foundation:

Scripturally, a "work" is something done in order to achieve salvation, or to get to heaven. Faith/believing is NOT done in order to obtain those things, therefore it CANNOT, by definition, be a work.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
The clear contrast in that verse between work and believing cannot be missed. But some still miss it.
I gave you the reason why Salvation by works and believing are contrasted. Its simple, believing in Christ is something given as a Gift of Gods Grace, its not naturally in man to do, so its believing because of Grace, Acts 18:27 which Grace gets the Credit for a person believing in Christ, whereas if it believing in Christ be a natural ability of man, then its done as a work of the flesh, and disqualifies as being done through Grace, and hence becomes by works. So Salvation is either because of Grace or works, cant be both my friend.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Jr

Scripturally, a "work" is something done in order to achieve salvation, or to get to heaven

Correct, and most people believe their act of believing is what made the difference in achieving Salvation

Faith/believing is NOT done in order to obtain those things, therefore it CANNOT, by definition, be a work.

Dont tell me, I know that, but most people believe they are conditions men do to get saved. Once you make them conditions to get saved, they become works, some act you do to get saved, without you doing those acts, you dont get saved.
 

marke

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I gave you the reason why Salvation by works and believing are contrasted. Its simple, believing in Christ is something given as a Gift of Gods Grace, its not naturally in man to do, so its believing because of Grace, Acts 18:27 which Grace gets the Credit for a person believing in Christ, whereas if it believing in Christ be a natural ability of man, then its done as a work of the flesh, and disqualifies as being done through Grace, and hence becomes by works. So Salvation is either because of Grace or works, cant be both my friend.
I doubt a sinner can be saved who refuses to repent and believe God because he imagines such acts of obedience to God are despised by God as mere works.
 
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