In the mountain of the LORD it shall be seen - Genesis 22

[chair]

No, its called EGO. "the established archeology" is STUBBORNLY ENTRENCHED (sound familiar?). There are definite clues left by God the Ruach Elohim in the scripture and now (being uncovered), in the earth.
But hey, if you want to bow to a Roman Wall, built by Valerious Gratus in 20 A.D., then by all means continue to worship a pagan wall.

Sometimes, believe it or not, professionals who have dealt with a field for years do actually know something.

I take it you haven't actually been to Jerusalem. You should visit.

 

[marhig]

What does it mean, that Jesus was forced to walk the Via Dolorosa agains his will!



This above does not explain why Paul would think of the Law in his mind only, while serving sin in his flesh. (Romans 7:25) He was doing nothing to subject his sinful passions.



No, he was not! Read the whole chapter 7 of Romans and you will see that he was making of himself a supernatural man with the allowance to be in "Christ" while serving sin in his flesh. The point is that he could not get rid of that thorn in his flesh.



No, he could not confess to follow Jesus while living in sin because, as he said, he could not get rid of it. What authority did he have to say that he had been released from the Law? (Romans 7:6) Really, I don't care how he was living his life as long as he did not try to exercise authority over the lives of others.

I see Romans 7 very differently to you!

Paul was clearly saying that with the flesh he serves sin, but through Christ he serves God.

Man can manipulate the laws to suit their flesh so that they can still live to please their flesh. But you can't manipulate the spirit who teaches you directly your heart. Teaching you what's right and wrong before God.

For example, natural circumcision doesn't cleanse the heart, but spiritual circumsision does. God wants our hearts clean, and the law is good to do this if we abide by it. But many don't and they live by a law that suits them, a bit of obedience and still live by the flesh. But through the spirit, those who truly love God live to suit him and not themselves, living by his will and listening to the spirit.

Jesus came and showed us the way, being full of the holy spirit, he came and lived it out, fulfilling the laws and obeying God. Leaving us a perfect example to follow. And those of the spirit will follow his example as Paul did. He was denying his flesh and that is what he was explaining, and living to please God by the spirit, through Christ. And he suffered, as you can see.

It says in the Bible that those who belong to Jesus, are to partake in the sufferings of Christ, and those who truly love God do this, they deny their flesh and bare their cross, and suffer it, and show love, kindness and forgiveness, even when they are persecuted. And I can see that Paul had the spirit of God in his heart, I have experienced some of what what Paul is going through, when my eyes were opened, and i realised that what I was living like was wrong before God, and I started to deny those things firstly by seeing it written in the Bible and hearing from others, but then being taught of the spirit within my own heart, every day being corrected and showing me what I should and shouldn't live like.

My conscience is now very strong, and the things I would do in the flesh, I can't do anymore before God, my flesh wars against the spirit, but God is giving me the strength, through Christ by the spirit to overcome. I now live by Gods law written in my heart and mind and my heart is being cleansed the spirit from the filth of the flesh. Which for me, would be impossible without God and Christ to do so, i thank God that he chose me and gave me a chance to hear his word and to be reconciled to him, I'm truly blessed and I am forever grateful for our lord Jesus his holy son, for bringing me the way, the truth and the life to follow, coming and preaching the gospel and living it so that i have no excuse, I now know the way to live to please God.

I know exactly what Paul means, and until people live it, they won't understand him.

 

[beameup]

Sometimes, believe it or not, professionals who have dealt with a field for years do actually know something.

I know, the whereabouts of the Temple have been known for a couple of decades now.
You might want to check-out the excavations going on in the City of David...
of course, you may purposely not want to...

 

[chair]

I know, the whereabouts of the Temple have been known for a couple of decades now.
You might want to check-out the excavations going on in the City of David...
of course, you may purposely not want to...

Idiot. I have been there. My son-in-law is an archaeologist and has dug there.
get some knowledge and stop spewing nonsense.

 

[beameup]

Idiot. I have been there. My son-in-law is an archaeologist and has dug there.
get some knowledge and stop spewing nonsense.

hahahahahahaha
Tell me, where is the only natural source of water in the area?
Who is the idiot that claims that the rugged outcropping under
the Dome of the Rock is the location of the Holy of Holies?

Better tell your son-in-law not to quit his regular job.

http://popular-archaeology.com/issue/june-2013/article/wailing-at-the-wrong-wall

 

[chair]

hahahahahahaha
Tell me, where is the only natural source of water in the area?
Who is the idiot that claims that the rugged outcropping under
the Dome of the Rock is the location of the Holy of Holies?

Better tell your son-in-law not to quit his regular job.

How about reading up on the ancient water works in Jerusalem? How about visiting the city instead of being an "expert" through Google Earth.

Ignorance can be cured. But ignorant people who think they are smarter than the rest of the world would rather hang on to that warm cozy superior feeling that actually learn anything.

edit: My son-in-law's regular job is as an archaeologist with the Israeli Antiquities Authority. Get hold of yourself- even your insults are pathetic.

 

[beameup]

How about reading up on the ancient water works in Jerusalem? How about visiting the city instead of being an "expert" through Google Earth.

How about reading up on ancient Roman Fortress architecture? They always took the "high ground"; their Fortress' covered about the space of a football stadium with parking lots.
The Fortress was like a city within itself. Antonia Fortress (named after Mark Anthony) housed 10,000 soldiers and support staff and had brothels, bakeries, butcher shops, barber shops, etc. It also had a large stable of horses and chariots. There were two large aqueducts built by Romans bringing water from Bethlehem about 7 miles away and a series of cisterns to contain the water.

Zion is the City of David... The City of David is Zion - repeat 100 times.

The Gihon Spring is a siphon spring or artesian spring that brought large amounts of pure, clean water from deep into the earth, up to the Temple. Huge amounts of blood needed to be washed away as the Temple was cleansed. The abundance of this pure, clean water was the primary reason for David selecting the Jebusite fortress. Ornan's threshing floor was chosen as the site to build the Temple; it was adjacent to Gihon Spring.

And the inhabitants of Jebus said to David, Thou shalt not come hither. Nevertheless David took the castle of Zion, which is the city of David.

1 Chron 11:5

 

[chair]

... Ornan's threshing floor was chosen as the site to build the Temple; it was adjacent to Gihon Spring.

Let's just take this one statement. What is your source for this? Is there a verse that says this? If so- where?

 

[chair]

Let's just take this one statement. What is your source for this? Is there a verse that says this? If so- where?

reminder...

I'd also like to point out that threshing floors are not known for being next to springs, and altars were often built without adjacent water sources. A good example is the Israelite altar on Mount Ebal. No water there(and yes- I have been there).

The need for large quantities of water at a worship site arose much later, when the Temple became very large and many sacrifices were brought. By that time a water supply system had been built to supply water to the temple area.

The text is quite clear. The City of David was indeed near the spring, as all ancient cities were. The temple was built on a threshing floor. Threshing floors are not in cities, they are in agricultural areas. The text does not say that the temple was built in the city, or adjacent to the spring. If you can show us a verse that specifically says so (not a 'modified' verse or your interpretation), I will stand corrected.

Looking forward to your prompt intellectually honest response.

Chair

 

[Ben Masada]

I see Romans 7 very differently to you!

Obviously! You see through the eyes of Christian preconceived notions. You see that way because you must see that way.

Paul was clearly saying that with the flesh he serves sin, but through Christ he serves God.

This is the same as to serving two masters: The Law in the mind and sin in the flesh.

Man can manipulate the laws to suit their flesh so that they can still live to please their flesh. But you can't manipulate the spirit who teaches you directly your heart. Teaching you what's right and wrong before God.

One does not please the flesh by obeying the Law. What pleases the flesh is one's emotional exploitation of his or her passion. The thorn in Paul's flesh was a sinful condition due to a passionating addiction from youth.

For example, natural circumcision doesn't cleanse the heart, but spiritual circumsision does. God wants our hearts clean, and the law is good to do this if we abide by it. But many don't and they live by a law that suits them, a bit of obedience and still live by the flesh. But through the spirit, those who truly love God live to suit him and not themselves, living by his will and listening to the spirit.

Sorry Marhig, but this verbal juggling of circumcision of the flesh versus circumcision of the spirit doesn't make sense anymore since it has become the best jargon to promote the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology.

Jesus came and showed us the way, being full of the holy spirit, he came and lived it out, fulfilling the laws and obeying God. Leaving us a perfect example to follow. And those of the spirit will follow his example as Paul did. He was denying his flesh and that is what he was explaining, and living to please God by the spirit, through Christ. And he suffered, as you can see.

Paul implied he was free to serve God in his mind while serving sin in his flesh. (Romans 7:25) This is not servitude according to the will of God.

It says in the Bible that those who belong to Jesus, are to partake in the sufferings of Christ, and those who truly love God do this, they deny their flesh and bare their cross, and suffer it, and show love, kindness and forgiveness, even when they are persecuted. And I can see that Paul had the spirit of God in his heart, I have experienced some of what what Paul is going through, when my eyes were opened, and i realised that what I was living like was wrong before God, and I started to deny those things firstly by seeing it written in the Bible and hearing from others, but then being taught of the spirit within my own heart, every day being corrected and showing me what I should and shouldn't live like.

How could Paul have had the Spirit of God in his heart while serving sin in his flesh? Yes, the way Paul used to live was wrong before God and he knew it but, as he said, what can I do if I can't stop doing what I hate to do? I think Paul's struggle was against repressed homosexual feelings which he could not get rid of.

My conscience is now very strong, and the things I would do in the flesh, I can't do anymore before God, my flesh wars against the spirit, but God is giving me the strength, through Christ by the spirit to overcome. I now live by Gods law written in my heart and mind and my heart is being cleansed the spirit from the filth of the flesh. Which for me, would be impossible without God and Christ to do so, i thank God that he chose me and gave me a chance to hear his word and to be reconciled to him, I'm truly blessed and I am forever grateful for our lord Jesus his holy son, for bringing me the way, the truth and the life to follow, coming and preaching the gospel and living it so that i have no excuse, I now know the way to live to please God.

It means absolutely nothing to keep God's Law in ones' mind while serving sin in one's flesh. Jesus was not the only son of God. All Israel was God's Son if you read Exodus 4:22,23. The only way to live to please God was taught by Jesus himself when he said "To listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)

I know exactly what Paul means, and until people live it, they won't understand him.

I also know what Paul meant. He meant that the best way to live a peaceful life was to convince himself that he had been released from the Law with the death of Jesus. (Romans 7:6) And he meant the Law of the Decalogue if you focus on Romans 7:7. Where does it say, "Thou shall not covet" if not in the Decalogue? That's what Paul meant: That the Law was not for him. Dostoevsky must have read that chapter of Romans (7) to think of himself as a supernatural man when he wrote his book "Crime and Punishment" which was not for him even if he served sin in his flesh.

 

[beameup]

You may want to look this info over, to get a perspective of Roman forts or the era:
http://www.centuryone.com/Jerusalem/temple.html

 

[chair]

You may want to look this info over, to get a perspective of Roman forts or the era:
http://www.centuryone.com/Jerusalem/temple.html

..and you may want to read and respond to my posts. Unless they make you too uncomfortable.

 

[beameup]

..and you may want to read and respond to my posts. Unless they make you too uncomfortable.

Yes, it must be painful to look at that Moslem "mount" and realize that it was previously a Roman Fort.
BTW, all the pieces of the Temple were recycled elsewhere in Jerusalem and even up on that "Temple Mount". :rotfl:

Looking southwest at Fort Antonia. Temple is on the far left, past the fort.

 

[chair]

Yes, it must be painful to look at that Moslem "mount" and realize that it was previously a Roman Fort.

Fortunately I do not have the same delusions as you do.

Josephus on the the Antonia Tower:
"The general appearance of the whole was that of a tower with other towers at each of the four corners; three of these turrets were fifty cubits high, while that at the south-east angle rose to seventy cubits and so commanded a view of the whole area of the temple."

This was not a fortress like those the Romans built in open areas.

Admit you are wrong once- it would do you good.

 

[beameup]

Fortunately I do not have the same delusions as you do.

Josephus on the the Antonia Tower:
"The general appearance of the whole was that of a tower with other towers at each of the four corners; three of these turrets were fifty cubits high, while that at the south-east angle rose to seventy cubits and so commanded a view of the whole area of the temple."

Like I've said previously, the Temple was at the southeast corner, and down from the encampment of the Roman legion, at the Ophel/Millo, overlooking the Kidron Valley. A Roman legion was 6,000 troops, and there were thousands of support personnel. Josephus described Fort Antonia as equal to "three small cities".

Zion shall be plowed as a field;
Jerusalem shall become a heap of ruins,
and the mountain of the Temple,
as a bare mountaintop.
Micah 3:12 - Pronouncement of Judgment Micah 3:9-12
Obviously this occurred in 70 AD and again in 135 AD

 

[chair]

Like I've said previously, the Temple was at the southeast corner, and down from the encampment of the Roman legion, at the Ophel/Millo, overlooking the Kidron Valley. A Roman legion was 6,000 troops, and there were thousands of support personnel. Josephus described Fort Antonia as equal to "three small cities".

Zion shall be plowed as a field;
Jerusalem shall become a heap of ruins,
and the mountain of the Temple,
as a bare mountaintop.
Micah 3:12 - Pronouncement of Judgment Micah 3:9-12
Obviously this occurred in 70 AD and again in 135 AD

You have said many many things in this thread, and somehow have managed not to bring any solid evidence of any of it. You have also ignored nearly anything I've mentioned about this topic.

Why do you care about this? It makes no difference theologically, as far as I can tell. The only thing you gain is that (false) feeling that you are smarter than people who actually know what they are talking about. So what's the point of this foolishness?

 

[chair]

.. Ornan's threshing floor was chosen as the site to build the Temple; it was adjacent to Gihon Spring.

Just as a reminder of the type of unsupported statement you have made in this this thread. I have pointed this out repeatedly- and yet you choose to ignore my comments. A sure sign that you have no answer, but are unwilling to admit error.

 

[beameup]

Just as a reminder of the type of unsupported statement you have made in this this thread. I have pointed this out repeatedly- and yet you choose to ignore my comments.

You have to start with the "clues" :sherlock: left by Ruach Ha'Qodesh in the text.
If your "starting point" is a pre-conceived conclusion, then you will not find the "clues". :sherlock:
The same goes for archeology, as the majority don't even have a "faith" or believe in the Bible.
BTW, Most of the texts containing the "clues" have already been posted Sherlock.

Hear this, you heads of the house of Jacob
and rulers of the house of Israel,
who detest justice
and make crooked all that is straight,
who build Zion with blood
and Jerusalem with iniquity.
THIS IS WHAT YESHUA WAS CONFRONTED WITH

Therefore because of you
Zion shall be plowed as a field;
Jerusalem shall become a heap of ruins,
and the mountain of the house [of the LORD]
a [barren] wooded height. - Micah 3:9,10,12
SO, NOT A TRACE OF THE TEMPLE WAS LEFT

 

[chair]

Never mind. You live in a fantasy world. Enjoy.
Try to get over your anti-Jewish bigotry. It is ugly, even for fools.

Have a nice day.

 

[beameup]

Never mind. You live in a fantasy world. Enjoy.
Try to get over your anti-Jewish bigotry. It is ugly, even for fools.

Have a nice day.

Thanks.
When Hezekiah saw the Assyrians coming under Sennacherib, he immediately went to the aqueduct coming from Bethlehem and fortified it to keep the water away from the 185,000-strong Assyrian army and force them to encamp far away from Jerusalem.... right?? :rotfl: