ECT If We Would Judge Ourselves We Should Not Be Judged (1 Cor.11:31).

[Jerry Shugart]

In what respect are Christians judged by the Lord if it is not for their sins?:

"For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world" (1 Cor.11:31-32).

So is it not necessary to judge ourselves in regard to our sins so that we will not be chastened by the Lord. Is it not necessary to judge ourselves in regard to our sins in order to have those sins forgiven?

 

[DAN P]

In what respect are Christians judged by the Lord if it is not for their sins?:

"For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world" (1 Cor.11:31-32).

So is it not necessary to judge ourselves in regard to our sins so that we will not be chastened by the Lord. Is it not necessary to judge ourselves in regard to our sins in order to have those sins forgiven?

Hi and there are many who will disagree with you and they quote Matthew and they are wrong as Matthew iin it's context is speaking to His people !!

Here is a translation that reads , For IF we were DISCERNING OF ourselves , we should not be judged !!

There are just 2 verbs in verse 31 , and both are in the IMPERFECT TENSE !!

The IMPERFECT tense just means that IF we correct our behavior , then we can not be judged !!

It is also in the ACTIVE VOICE and means that you are the subject that are the ONLY ONE who can correct your behavior amd the INDICATIVE MOLOD just what is written is a FACT !!

Discern has many meaning , like , JUDGE , DISCERN , JUDGE , and DOUBT !!

So any one eating and drinking in an UNWORTHY manner can die or be sick and it seems to me that UN-worthy manner is that they became GLUTTONS as verse 11:21 !!

dan p

 

[DAN P]

In what respect are Christians judged by the Lord if it is not for their sins?:

"For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world" (1 Cor.11:31-32).

So is it not necessary to judge ourselves in regard to our sins so that we will not be chastened by the Lord. Is it not necessary to judge ourselves in regard to our sins in order to have those sins forgiven?

Hi and this passage is VERY important BECAUSE this passage is for the Body of Christ and Matt26:26-29 is for Israel !!

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The IMPERFECT tense just means that IF we correct our behavior , then we can not be judged !!

That is the same meaning in the following verse. If we confess our sin and cease from repeating that sin then that sin will be forgiven:

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 Jn.1:9).

Both 1 Corinthians 11:31 and 1 John 1:9 are in regard to the Christian being in fellowship with the Lord and have nothing to do with salvation. Both verses are addressed to Christians who have already had their sins forgiven in regard to salvation.

 

[DAN P]

That is the same meaning in the following verse. If we confess our sin and cease from repeating that sin then that sin will be forgiven:

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 Jn.1:9).

Both 1 Corinthians 11:31 and 1 John 1:9 are in regard to the Christian being in fellowship with the Lord and have nothing to do with salvation. Both verses are addressed to Christians who have already had their sins forgiven in regard to salvation.

Hi and I see 1 John 1:9 differenty , because the IMPERFECT TENSE is not used in 1 John 1:9 !!

The Greek word for SIN is in the Greek PERFECT TENSE because we are SINNERS from the beginning of birth and is in the ACTIVE VOICE , because our bodies the subject are producing the SIN !!

And the Indicative mood SAYS THAT is a FACT !!

I say that this verse is way different than 1 Cor 11:31 !!

The DISCERNMENT has to do with the Lord's supper and fellowship and 1John 1:9 has to do with SIN !!

If I misread your post , let me know !!

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The DISCERNMENT has to do with the Lord's supper and fellowship and 1John 1:9 has to do with SIN !!

The way that some Christians were partaking of the Lord's Supper was a sin. Soin both instances the subject under discussion was in regard to sin.

 

[DAN P]

The way that some Christians were partaking of the Lord's Supper was a sin. Soin both instances the subject under discussion was in regard to sin.

Hi and I say what you mean BUT in 1 Cor 11 , many die and get sick , because they eat and drink un-worthly and this action of UNWORTHLY is and can be corrected and we see that many DIED and are still believers !!

This is BEHAVIOR that can be corrected and these Corinthians were still BABES in Christ 1 Cor 3:1-4 and verse 32 says that God will chasten !

1 John 1:9 speaks to those who say that they have no sin and some say that are SINLESS !! 1 John 3:9 !!!!!!!!!

I believe that these are 2 separate issues where Paul is speaking to the Body of Christ and John is speaking the Jews and then how are we BORN OF God in 1 John 3:9 ??

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I believe that these are 2 separate issues where Paul is speaking to the Body of Christ and John is speaking the Jews and then how are we BORN OF God in 1 John 3:9 ??

You are wrong when you assert that John is not writing to members of the Body of Christ. That is a common error among all those in MAD on this forum. Let us look at this verse:

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ and here is what Paul tells them all:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2:

"There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).

 

[DAN P]

You are wrong when you assert that John is not writing to members of the Body of Christ. That is a common error among all those in MAD on this forum. Let us look at this verse:

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ and here is what Paul tells them all:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2:

"There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).

Hi and lets take one at a time !

Where is a verse in 1,2,3,John that speaks to the Body of Christ ??

dan p

 

[DAN P]

You are wrong when you assert that John is not writing to members of the Body of Christ. That is a common error among all those in MAD on this forum. Let us look at this verse:

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ and here is what Paul tells them all:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2:

"There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).

 

[DAN P]

Hi and there are NO Jews or Greeks in the Body of Christ and Gal 3:28 says SO !!

That is C R Stam's view BUT not the bible view , is IT !!

Stam also believes that the 12 apostles are in the Body and if you believe that , produce a verse !!

dan p

 

[Nihilo]

Jerry and Dan, do either of you believe that 1st Corinthians 11:29-30 (KJV) and 1st John 5:16 (KJV) are related? Is John's " sin unto death " Paul's " eateth and drinketh unworthily ?"

 

[DAN P]

Jerry and Dan, do either of you believe that 1st Corinthians 11:29-30 (KJV) and 1st John 5:16 (KJV) are related? Is John's " sin unto death " Paul's " eateth and drinketh unworthily ?"

Hi and the first part I say no !!

The second part , 1 Cor 11:32 reads like this , But in being JUDGED by the Lord , we are being DISCIPLINED in order that we should not be condemned with the world !!

The " SIN UNTO DEATH " one verb " HE SHALL ASK " is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE which speaks to the Great Tribulation and it is my opinion that it is the number 666 !!

I do not know Jerry's position as to where he is , Acyts 2 , 9 ,11 , 13 , or 28er , maybe he will tell me where he is ??

dan p

 

[DAN P]

You are wrong when you assert that John is not writing to members of the Body of Christ. That is a common error among all those in MAD on this forum. Let us look at this verse:

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ and here is what Paul tells them all:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2:

"There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).

Hi Jerry , so where do you say the Body of Christ began ??

Should be easy for you !!

I do not want to mis-represent you !!

dan p

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Hi and there are NO Jews or Greeks in the Body of Christ and Gal 3:28 says SO !!

That is C R Stam's view BUT not the bible view , is IT !!

Stam also believes that the 12 apostles are in the Body and if you believe that , produce a verse !!

dan p

Sure--

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

LA

 

[DAN P]

Sure--

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

LA

Hi and here we go again and Gal 3:28 says there is NEITHER Jews or Greeks Bond of Free and neither Male nor Females for all are one in Christ Jesus , do you have it and also Col 3:11 is similar !!

dan p

 

[Danoh]

Hi and there are many who will disagree with you and they quote Matthew and they are wrong as Matthew iin it's context is speaking to His people !!

Here is a translation that reads , For IF we were DISCERNING OF ourselves , we should not be judged !!

There are just 2 verbs in verse 31 , and both are in the IMPERFECT TENSE !!

The IMPERFECT tense just means that IF we correct our behavior , then we can not be judged !!

It is also in the ACTIVE VOICE and means that you are the subject that are the ONLY ONE who can correct your behavior amd the INDICATIVE MOLOD just what is written is a FACT !!

Discern has many meaning , like , JUDGE , DISCERN , JUDGE , and DOUBT !!

...

Some good points in your above.

It is a chapter that has a few within Mid-Acts confused - though, very few.

Even some within Mid-Acts; who end up at a different confusion as a result, but a confusion nevertheless - they end up concluding that "the Lord's Supper" is not for the Body also.

 

[DAN P]

Some good points in your above.

It is a chapter that has a few within Mid-Acts confused - though, very few.

Even some within Mid-Acts; who end up at a different confusion as a result, but a confusion nevertheless - they end up concluding that "the Lord's Supper" is not for the Body also.

Hi and the only one that are confused are the Acts 2 and the 28er and even within Dispensationalist , there are MANY different position as I have seen and to people I know !!

That is one reason that many like the phrase MID-ACTS and use it to hide there views !!

dan p

 

[Danoh]

Hi and the only one that are confused are the Acts 2 and the 28er and even within Dispensationalist , there are hold MANY different position as I have seen and to people I know !!

That is one reason that many like the phrase MID-ACTS and use it to hide there views !!

dan p

Okay One Third Acts, lol

28 chapters, divided by 3, equals Acts 9.

Ya happy now - you Thirder, you :chuckle:

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi Jerry , so where do you say the Body of Christ began ??

Should be easy for you !!

Since in the Body of Christ there is no difference between the Jew other people that means that at some point in time national Israel was temporarily set aside. That is because the Lord cannot act at the same time upon two wholly different and incompatible principles. In other words, He cannot deal with the Jews as a special people at the same time when He declares that there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek.

Therefore we can conclude that before the Lord could begin to build His heavenly Church He must have first temporarily cast aside national Israel. I believe that this happened when Stephen was stoned at Acts 7. In The Berean Searchlight Win Johnson wrote:

"Matthew 12:31,32 states: 'Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world [age], neither in the world to come.'

"These words of warning came from the lips of the Son of God while He walked among men in His earthly ministry. They were addressed to the religious leaders of the nation Israel. Their blasphemy against Him even when He hung on the Cross was forgiven by the Father in answer to the prayer, 'Father forgive them, for they know not what they do' (Luke 23:34).

"But when at Pentecost, Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, announced the return of Messiah on the condition of Israel's national repentance, these leaders instigated a persecution that reached its climax in the stoning of Stephen, a godly man, 'full of the Holy Ghost' (Acts 7:54-60). It was here that the 'unpardonable sin' was committed by Israel's leaders. The Third Person of the Trinity had been blasphemed and His pleadings through the Apostles ignored. This sin will never be forgiven" (Win Johnson, "The Unpardonable Sin," The Berean Searchlight, Feb.2001, p.6).

The "unpardonable sin" was committed at Acts 7, and I believe that at that point in time national Israel was temporarily set aside. I believe that at that time the Holy Spirit baptized all believers into the Church, which is His Body.

After all, what was the Lord to do with the Jewish believers since He had concluded the nation of Israel as a whole in unbelief?:

"For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all" (Ro.11:30-32).