How We Can Absolutely KNOW Absolutely That We Are Saved.

[marke]

I have to disagree with this a little more. We are saved by faith, not knowledge, so the only way we can "know" we are saved is once again by faith, not knowledge. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

There are many verses in the Bible that give us ways to examine our faith to ensure it is real and not fake (or dead, as is mentioned in James.)

 

[JAG]

Unsaved fake Christians also read the Bible and base their assurance on verses they think apply to them. Jesus warned Christians not to be deceived.

So what?
Not a single syllable of your point refutes the proposition of the Opening Post
even slightly ~~ or refutes the clear solid Biblical statements in the Opening Post.
What fake Christians do, or do not do, has absolutely NOTHING, as in zero, to
do with the proposition of the Opening Post.

ALL this below stands true:

"SO THAT YOU MAY KNOW YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE"

"THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH"

"WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE PASED FROM DEATH TO LIFE"

"SHALL NOT PERISH BUT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE."

"WILL NEVER SEE DEATH"

"WILL NOT BE JUDGED BUT HAS CROSSED OVER FROM DEATH TO
LIFE"

"WILL LIVE, EVEN THOUGH THEY DIE . . . WILL NEVER DIE"

"WILL FORGIVE US OUR SINS"

"NOTHING IN THE UNIVERSE CAN) "SEPARATE US FROM THE LOVE OF
GOD"

Best.

JAG

@ffreeloader

 

[Right Divider]

We read in 1 Corinthians

1 Corinthians 10:11
Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Christian scholars point out that the OT record is written for New Testament Christians for our admonition. Furthermore, the OT records contain types and shadows of things present and future, which go beyond the literal events and people themselves. Jesus is called the Last Adam. Jesus is not Adam, but Adam is a foreshadowing type of Jesus.

The Greek word translated "examples" in 1 Cor. 10 is tupos from which we get our English word type.

• You seem to falsely accuse me of not "believing that the Bible has types". I do.
• I disagree that the "baptism into Moses" is any sort of "type" for the body of Christ.
• You keep going off on "types" in general and have not addressed the singular issue that I brought up.

 

[marke]

• You seem to falsely accuse me of not "believing that the Bible has types". I do.
• I disagree that the "baptism into Moses" is any sort of "type" for the body of Christ.
• You keep going off on "types" in general and have not addressed the singular issue that I brought up.

No, I did not accuse you of anything. You accused me of being disingenuous. I offer my opinions but you seem to think I am trying to avoid your points. I am not trying to avoid anything.

 

[Right Divider]

No, I did not accuse you of anything.

Then your comments are confusing. I'm a fairly intelligent adult and this looked like an accusation:

I admit that not all Christians believe the Bible is full of types and shadows.

You accused me of being disingenuous.

I was trying not to call you dishonest, based on the quote above.

I offer my opinions but you seem to think I am trying to avoid your points.

That's simply because you avoided addressing my point.

I am not trying to avoid anything.

So you say.

 

[marke]

Then your comments are confusing. I'm a fairly intelligent adult and this looked like an accusation:

I believe there are many Christians who do not believe the Bible is full of types and shadows. That is not an accusation of any kind and is certainly not an accusation against you. It is a statement of what I believe without any relation to accusations of any kind.

I was trying not to call you dishonest, based on the quote above.

That's simply because you avoided addressing my point.

So you say.

If you think I did not satisfy your question then why not continue the discussion rather than assuming I am lying or being deliberately evasive? If I was being deliberately evasive then smoke me out by further questioning. It is that simple.

 

[Right Divider]

I believe there are many Christians who do not believe the Bible is full of types and shadows.

Good for you. What does that have to do with your opinion without argument?

That is not an accusation of any kind and is certainly not an accusation against you. It is a statement of what I believe without any relation to accusations of any kind.

So just a random and irrelevant opinion for no reason?

If you think I did not satisfy your question then why not continue the discussion rather than assuming I am lying or being deliberately evasive?

Anytime that you'd like, you can address the initial issue.

If I was being deliberately evasive then smoke me out by further questioning. It is that simple.

I'm still asking the first question that you've avoided all along.

 

[Gary K]

Nevertheless, here is what I read in the Bible:

1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Yeah, you're right. I always think of Jesus as the second Adam because He has recovered what the first Adam gave away. The first lost it, the second bought it back.

 

[marke]

That's a claim... got any argument to support it?

Note that the Jews did NOT get wet. So they were really "baptized" apart from the Red Sea.

The Bible says the Jews were baptized in the cloud and in the sea. I agree that it was not like the water baptism of John, but it was a type of baptism of the Spirit a new believer receives from God when he leaves the Egypt of his old life of sins. Baptism is a type of baptism of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 10:2
And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

 

[Right Divider]

The Bible says the Jews were baptized in the cloud and in the sea. I agree that it was not like the water baptism of John, but it was a type of baptism of the Spirit a new believer receives from God when he leaves the Egypt of his old life of sins. Baptism is a type of baptism of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 10:2
And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

Again, an opinion with no argument to support it.

You do realize that the vast majority of the "Jews that were baptized unto Moses" were unbelievers and remained so even after they were "all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;", right?

1Co 10:6-10 KJV Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. (7) Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. (8) Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. (9) Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. (10) Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

Paul's story is NOT about a type of baptism that would follow for the body of Christ. The body of Christ was a mystery that was NOT being foreshadowed.

 

[DAN P]

The Bible says the Jews were baptized in the cloud and in the sea. I agree that it was not like the water baptism of John, but it was a type of baptism of the Spirit a new believer receives from God when he leaves the Egypt of his old life of sins. Baptism is a type of baptism of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 10:2
And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

And here is what many do see in 1 Cor 10:1 and ALL / PAS is in the NOMINATIVE CASE and is the subject , of ALL ,

#1 The word OUR / HEMEN , is a PERSONAL POSSESSIVE PRONOUN which to means that they possessed the protection of God bring them out of bondage .

#2 And the word FATHERS / PATER is also in the NOMINATIVE CASE and also the subject .

#3 The word WERE / EN is in the IMPERFECT TENSE and were under the protection of God until the book of the Revelation .
At my last count there at least 7 different types of PRONOUN , like the PERSONAL POSSESSIVE PRONOUN .

#4 The words UNDER THE CLOUD / NEPHELE is in the ACCUSATIVE CASE and means , they were under the direction or action of God ..

#5 And all PASSED /DIERCHOMA is in the AORIST TENSE and means they passed from one side to the other side , safety .

#6 The next word THE SEA /THALASSA is in the GENITIVE CASE , means a description of passage .

SO what does BAPTIZO in 1 Cor 1:2 means that ALL were under Gods care and guiding Moses and the Greek word BAPTIZO has NOTING to do with WATER and the word BAPTIZO can also be translation by the English words PLACED or by IDENIFICATION .

dan p

 

[marke]

And here is what many do see in 1 Cor 10:1 and ALL / PAS is in the NOMINATIVE CASE and is the subject , of ALL ,

#1 The word OUR / HEMEN , is a PERSONAL POSSESSIVE PRONOUN which to means that they possessed the protection of God bring them out of bondage .

#2 And the word FATHERS / PATER is also in the NOMINATIVE CASE and also the subject .

#3 The word WERE / EN is in the IMPERFECT TENSE and were under the protection of God until the book of the Revelation .
At my last count there at least 7 different types of PRONOUN , like the PERSONAL POSSESSIVE PRONOUN .

#4 The words UNDER THE CLOUD / NEPHELE is in the ACCUSATIVE CASE and means , they were under the direction or action of God ..

#5 And all PASSED /DIERCHOMA is in the AORIST TENSE and means they passed from one side to the other side , safety .

#6 The next word THE SEA /THALASSA is in the GENITIVE CASE , means a description of passage .

SO what does BAPTIZO in 1 Cor 1:2 means that ALL were under Gods care and guiding Moses and the Greek word BAPTIZO has NOTING to do with WATER and the word BAPTIZO can also be translation by the English words PLACED or by IDENIFICATION .

dan p

The type is not the same exact thing as the anti-type. Baptism was typified in the cloud and in the sea but was not actual water baptism.

 

[Gary K]

Again, an opinion with no argument to support it.

You do realize that the vast majority of the "Jews that were baptized unto Moses" were unbelievers and remained so even after they were "all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;", right?

Paul's story is NOT about a type of baptism that would follow for the body of Christ. The body of Christ was a mystery that was NOT being foreshadowed.

The idea that the Jews did not believe in baptism is not Biblical. The story of John the Baptist proves this.

John 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
4 And the same John had his raiment of camel’s hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.
5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

 

[Right Divider]

The idea that the Jews did not believe in baptism is not Biblical.

I never said any such thing.

The story of John the Baptist proves this.

Israel had many baptisms.

Heb 6:2 KJV Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

 

[DAN P]

The type is not the same exact thing as the anti-type. Baptism was typified in the cloud and in the sea but was not actual water baptism.

And the Greek words for BAPTISM are many .

#1 In Heb 9:10 is the word WASHING / BAPTISMOS .

#2 In Eph 4:5 ONE BAPTISM is ONE / BAPTISMA which means ONE BAP[TIZER , is the HOLY SPIRIT .

#3 In Rom 6:4 we are BAPTISMA INTO THE DEATH .

#4 In 1 Cor 10:2 refers to IDENTIFICATION unto Moses in the Cloud and the SEA .

#5 And in Heb 6:3 are the doctrines of BAPTISMS / BAPTISMOS were used for PURIFICATIONS of Pots and Pans , beds , and there hands before eating .

#6 And a big ONE , the death BAPTISMA in 1 Cor 15:29 of BAPTISM / BAPTISMA for the DEAD .

#7 And the BAPTIZO / PLACED into the BODY OF CHRIST .

dan p

 

[marke]

And the Greek words for BAPTISM are many .

#1 In Heb 9:10 is the word WASHING / BAPTISMOS .

#2 In Eph 4:5 ONE BAPTISM is ONE / BAPTISMA which means ONE BAP[TIZER , is the HOLY SPIRIT .

#3 In Rom 6:4 we are BAPTISMA INTO THE DEATH .

#4 In 1 Cor 10:2 refers to IDENTIFICATION unto Moses in the Cloud and the SEA .

#5 And in Heb 6:3 are the doctrines of BAPTISMS / BAPTISMOS were used for PURIFICATIONS of Pots and Pans , beds , and there hands before eating .

#6 And a big ONE , the death BAPTISMA in 1 Cor 15:29 of BAPTISM / BAPTISMA for the DEAD .

#7 And the BAPTIZO / PLACED into the BODY OF CHRIST .

dan p

My advice to up-and-coming Bible scholars is to learn all that can be learned about ancient languages, Bible versions and translations, doctrine and theology, but always remember God only gives wisdom to the lowly.