ECT History in the Bible

Jacob

Jacob

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The Bible is historically accurate in every detail.

Have you ever been confused by Bible history, like putting things in the wrong order?

For example, where do we place Job? Separate from or related to Israel geographically and in reference to time?

Obviously Abraham came before Moses. Etc....
 
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Jacob

Jacob

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Shalom.

First comes God with creation. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Shalom.

Jacob
 
Nick M

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
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True, not everything is in a chronological order from front to back. And then there is Chronicles.
 
I

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I recently tried to get a member here interested in what the census/taxation of Acts 5:37 was. In a way it is outside history. It is simply the census of Lk 2. But the person considered it irrelevant to understanding the NT and to a backgroud question such as 'why did the zealots revolt in 6 AD under Judas the Galilean?'
 
Jacob

Jacob

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Interplanner said:
I recently tried to get a member here interested in what the census/taxation of Acts 5:37 was. In a way it is outside history. It is simply the census of Lk 2. But the person considered it irrelevant to understanding the NT and to a backgroud question such as 'why did the zealots revolt in 6 AD under Judas the Galilean?'
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Shalom.

Well, what do you think about the matter?

Shalom.

Jacob
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Jacob said:
Shalom.

Well, what do you think about the matter?

Shalom.

Jacob
Click to expand...





In an ordinary sense (most people's political hopes) they had every right to fight back. But all of the tension (which had really been there for most of the IT period--intertestament, Maccabean, Antiochus) still comes down to what kind of expectations had been laid by the 'comfort' of the 2nd half of Isaiah. Did Isaiah start such a movement? I don't think so.

It is poetic and elaborate, but it does not truly support a fiercely independent state willing to fight for freedom at all costs. A Gospel and its mission to the nations appears. Through that the reign of God and the victory of the suffering Servant become clear. It ends with many distinctions between those who truly are following God and those not.

Unlike Isaiah, Daniel 9's answer-vision (the answer to the prayer about the destiny of Israel) is rather blunt. In 490 years the place is ruined but Messiah has succeeded in his redemptive work. The figure leading the rebellion that desolates, in ch 8 is also ruined in that period. I don't think there is any question that the rebellion was the zealot/Judaizer movement in Judea and Galilee.

Those are the 'enemies' that the reverent believers of Luke 1-2 were referring to, from whom the Christians would be delivered. They wouldn't say that about Rome outloud. It would be sedition. and the accounts of Jesus in Luke and Acts show he was not a disruptor of Roman rule. Even the overturning of tables in the temple was so small it did not trigger a dispatch of the Roman guards occupying the Antonio fortress and overlooking the grounds.

The zealots were organizing for uprisings that they believed would be met by supernatural acts of God to overthrow enemies. It was folly, and Christ said so.

Josephus a priest and Caiaphas a high priest also refer to such a rebel force. Josephus does so based on 'lines from ancient prophets' (prob Dan 8-9) and Caiaphas from the usual Jerusalem/temple disdain for Galileans ever since the Judas uprising in 6 AD. From what Josephus says, all priests were taught that, so they disdained the desert sects such as at Qumran and their WAR SCROLL and THE WAR OF THE SONS OF LIGHT AND AGAINST THE SONS OF DARKNESS.

(I translated Josephus' JEWISH WAR for one term at master's level).
 
Jacob

Jacob

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Interplanner said:
In an ordinary sense (most people's political hopes) they had every right to fight back. But all of the tension (which had really been there for most of the IT period--intertestament, Maccabean, Antiochus) still comes down to what kind of expectations had been laid by the 'comfort' of the 2nd half of Isaiah. Did Isaiah start such a movement? I don't think so.

It is poetic and elaborate, but it does not truly support a fiercely independent state willing to fight for freedom at all costs. A Gospel and its mission to the nations appears. Through that the reign of God and the victory of the suffering Servant become clear. It ends with many distinctions between those who truly are following God and those not.

Unlike Isaiah, Daniel 9's answer-vision (the answer to the prayer about the destiny of Israel) is rather blunt. In 490 years the place is ruined but Messiah has succeeded in his redemptive work. The figure leading the rebellion that desolates, in ch 8 is also ruined in that period. I don't think there is any question that the rebellion was the zealot/Judaizer movement in Judea and Galilee.

Those are the 'enemies' that the reverent believers of Luke 1-2 were referring to, from whom the Christians would be delivered. They wouldn't say that about Rome outloud. It would be sedition. and the accounts of Jesus in Luke and Acts show he was not a disruptor of Roman rule. Even the overturning of tables in the temple was so small it did not trigger a dispatch of the Roman guards occupying the Antonio fortress and overlooking the grounds.

The zealots were organizing for uprisings that they believed would be met by supernatural acts of God to overthrow enemies. It was folly, and Christ said so.

Josephus a priest and Caiaphas a high priest also refer to such a rebel force. Josephus does so based on 'lines from ancient prophets' (prob Dan 8-9) and Caiaphas from the usual Jerusalem/temple disdain for Galileans ever since the Judas uprising in 6 AD. From what Josephus says, all priests were taught that, so they disdained the desert sects such as at Qumran and their WAR SCROLL and THE WAR OF THE SONS OF LIGHT AND AGAINST THE SONS OF DARKNESS.

(I translated Josephus' JEWISH WAR for one term at master's level).
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Shalom.

I do not know what to think about your perspective on this.

I am a Jew, and not a Christian. I read, study, observe, and teach Torah.

Shalom.

Jacob
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Jacob said:
Shalom.

I do not know what to think about your perspective on this.

I am a Jew, and not a Christian. I read, study, observe, and teach Torah.

Shalom.

Jacob
Click to expand...





Well, Acts 5:37 indicates things were rather messy in the background of the NT, and this is partly why!
 
I

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That's the text where Rabbi Gamaliel (who taught Paul) explains that the Galilean zealots were organized by Judas the Galilean and attempted to break Roman power. As Acts moves along you can see that allegiance or connection to the zealots was a decisive thing and Paul needed to be cleared of it (see the 3 hearings at the end). He was, partly through the biographical information in Acts itself (both Luke and Acts are for a representative at his hearings called Theophilus).

Several of the called disciples of Jesus were Galileans and at least 2 are directly connected to zealotism; one by his descriptor and the other by his name 'Iscariot' which was a variation of 'sicari' which was the concealed weapon used by zealots to carry out ops against Rome. But Jesus specifically tried to reprogram them. Because he knew what direction the movement was going and knew what it was try do. He wanted followers in his mission and after the Gospel event and the Spirit was poured out they preached his message instead of that of zealots. He hoped he could have saved the country, but the zealots took over and ruined it in a hopeless revolt, known as the Great Revolt in 66 AD to 72 AD. Not that Jesus was around that long! But the work of the apostles in his mission was all through that nearly 40 year generation.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

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Interplanner said:
That's the text where Rabbi Gamaliel (who taught Paul) explains that the Galilean zealots were organized by Judas the Galilean and attempted to break Roman power. As Acts moves along you can see that allegiance or connection to the zealots was a decisive thing and Paul needed to be cleared of it (see the 3 hearings at the end). He was, partly through the biographical information in Acts itself (both Luke and Acts are for a representative at his hearings called Theophilus).

Several of the called disciples of Jesus were Galileans and at least 2 are directly connected to zealotism; one by his descriptor and the other by his name 'Iscariot' which was a variation of 'sicari' which was the concealed weapon used by zealots to carry out ops against Rome. But Jesus specifically tried to reprogram them. Because he knew what direction the movement was going and knew what it was try do. He wanted followers in his mission and after the Gospel event and the Spirit was poured out they preached his message instead of that of zealots. He hoped he could have saved the country, but the zealots took over and ruined it in a hopeless revolt, known as the Great Revolt in 66 AD to 72 AD. Not that Jesus was around that long! But the work of the apostles in his mission was all through that nearly 40 year generation.
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From which commentary did you glean these pearls?
 
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Jacob

Jacob

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Interplanner said:
That's the text where Rabbi Gamaliel (who taught Paul) explains that the Galilean zealots were organized by Judas the Galilean and attempted to break Roman power. As Acts moves along you can see that allegiance or connection to the zealots was a decisive thing and Paul needed to be cleared of it (see the 3 hearings at the end). He was, partly through the biographical information in Acts itself (both Luke and Acts are for a representative at his hearings called Theophilus).

Several of the called disciples of Jesus were Galileans and at least 2 are directly connected to zealotism; one by his descriptor and the other by his name 'Iscariot' which was a variation of 'sicari' which was the concealed weapon used by zealots to carry out ops against Rome. But Jesus specifically tried to reprogram them. Because he knew what direction the movement was going and knew what it was try do. He wanted followers in his mission and after the Gospel event and the Spirit was poured out they preached his message instead of that of zealots. He hoped he could have saved the country, but the zealots took over and ruined it in a hopeless revolt, known as the Great Revolt in 66 AD to 72 AD. Not that Jesus was around that long! But the work of the apostles in his mission was all through that nearly 40 year generation.
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Shalom.

I have no way to verify what you are saying. I do not see things the same way. I do not understand the Bible and the Gospels this way.

Shalom.

Jacob
 
I

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Luke-Acts, more than the others, contains a lot of the background. It will open up things like the 'Galileans' in Lk 13's first paragraph. There is general archeological and historical reading you can find.
 
Jacob

Jacob

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Interplanner said:
Luke-Acts, more than the others, contains a lot of the background. It will open up things like the 'Galileans' in Lk 13's first paragraph. There is general archeological and historical reading you can find.
Click to expand...
Shalom.

If you are putting things together correctly. Facts are hard to come by. If you begin with the Bible, you will do well. I understand that you have done some reading, or studying, in your Master's level work. I have not pursued a Master's Degree. But I have 10 plus years of Post-Secondary education. This does involve a year plus at Bible School. But we did not do the kind of work that it appears (that you have said) that you did (that you have done. Congratulations. Thank you for your contribution here. You are welcome to share more if you feel so inclined. I see the connection to History in the Bible if true.

Shalom.

Jacob
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
Jacob said:
The Bible is historically accurate in every detail.

Have you ever been confused by Bible history, like putting things in the wrong order?

For example, where do we place Job? Separate from or related to Israel geographically and in reference to time?

Obviously Abraham came before Moses. Etc....
Click to expand...

From what I have learned, it is possible that Job was chronologically somewhere in Genesis. One scholar that I read believes that Job is Jobab of Genesis 10:29. Job is attributed by some to Moses as the first book Moses wrote. That would make sense for Job being Jobab

However, the lessons we learn from Job are more useful to our lives
 
Jacob

Jacob

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oatmeal said:
From what I have learned, it is possible that Job was chronologically somewhere in Genesis. One scholar that I read believes that Job is Jobab of Genesis 10:29. Job is attributed by some to Moses as the first book Moses wrote. That would make sense for Job being Jobab

However, the lessons we learn from Job are more useful to our lives
Click to expand...
Shalom.

I do not know who wrote Job, but is as useful as the Torah.

Shalom.

Jacob
 
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