His Elect !

[beloved57]

Matt 24:31

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Does God have a elect people ? There is one scripture that says God's own elect. Lk 18:7

7And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

Is the fact that God has an election a theory of a man name calvin, or is it a scriptural truth ? I believe those who in unbelief and disdain, that shrug off election and other similar truth's of scripture as that of being the mere opinion of a man, will have much to answer for in the day of Judgment, which is not far away.

I will by God's Grace provide scriptural proof that election is the word of God, in that God, before the world began, made a distinction, a election among His creature man, choosing who would be objects of His special and peculiar Love and Favor. To begin lets look at a few verses of scripture.

Deut 7:6; Ps 135:4; Isa 41:8-9

Deut 7:6

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

What is truly amazing, is that most adversaries of the blessed Truth of election, have no problem receiving this Truth here in Deut, however they accept it as being applied to a carnal, natural people, Natural Israel, ethnic jews, but they reject the ideal of it applying to a Spiritual People, of all different ethnicities, having been Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

I have news for you, the Chosen in Deut 7:6 are the same exact Chosen in Eph 1:4.

The Love God Loved them with in Deut 7:7

7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

This is the same Love spoken of in Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

God does not have different Love, its always grounded in His elective purpose in Christ Jesus per Rom 8:39

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Now what makes us believe that this Love in Rom 8:39 is any different from the Love of God spoken of in Deut 7:7 ?

There is no difference, its the same Love, for the same People, just that in Rom the Love is found out to be of a wider dimension than first revealed in Deut 7:6-7. For God so loved the World in that same manner Nicodemus. Jn 3:16. Thats Jesus point in Jn 3:16, that God had a Chosen, special, peculiar, people unto Himself, above all other People upon the Face of the earth.

James describe them here Acts 15:

13And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:

14Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

This is part of the same People God spoke to in Deut 7:6-7, but it was not known then, but they too are of the Seed of Abraham Gen 17:5

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

The Seed of Abraham, no matter what race or geographical location, are the Chosen or Elect of God.

 

[bling]

can you help me, I have been discussing this on another board:
1. Was there a time when Jewish Christians (elect) taught that a good Christian also had to be a good Jew (following especially the dietary requirements, Sabbath and circumcision)?
2. Was there at the same time these Jewish Christians teaching you a good Jew, Christians (elect) teaching you did not have to follow the old Jewish Laws (esp. Sabbath, circumcision, and food)?
3. Was this a significant issue in the first century church, did Paul address this problem in his letters, and when did this problem cease to be a problem?
4. Could there have been and were there Jewish Christians (elect) in Rome at the time of Romans teaching other Gentile Christians (elect) they had to (be circumcised, obey the Sabbath, and/or fool the Old Jewish dietary requirements)?
5. Was Roman written to non-Christians or to some non-Christians (non-elect)?

 

[beloved57]

His Elect !

There is absolutely no question, the meaning of Election is that God Almighty has made a clear Choice, for the very word signifies a selection and appointment. God has exercised His own Sovereign prerogative and picked out from among His creatures of mankind, those whom He purposed to save by His Grace. Ps 135:4

4For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.

Notice unto Himself ! Now compare that statement with this one Titus 2:14

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Same People are they not ? Remember Paul addressed this epistle as unto the Faith of God's Elect Titus 1:2

1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect [Chosen], and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Now it should be understood, there is no election or selection or choice, without a deliberate singling out, and no singling out without passing by or rejection of the rest as per Rom 11:7

7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

The rest ! The word rest is the greek word loipos:

with a certain distinction and contrast, the rest, who are not of a specific class or number

The rest here means those jews who are not of a specific class or number, which would be the Election of Grace, God's Chosen People. You see, just being an ethnic jew born in the Nation of Israel, did not make one Chosen of God, one of His elect.

 

[bling]

Could you just answer the questions: yes, no, or maybe?

 

[coulter4president]

Matt 24:31

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Does God have a elect people ? There is one scripture that says God's own elect. Lk 18:7

od.

the elect are tjhose who do what God wants... which probably means that some nonChristians may be getting to Heaven sooner than so called Christians...

I have been most abused by "Christians" than nonChristians... but maybe thats mor due to numbers... I mean, virtually everyone thinks he is a Christain... even says so... i guess what i mean is i have most been abused by those who SAY so....

talk is cheap

 

[beloved57]

Could you just answer the questions: yes, no, or maybe?

If you cannot perceive an answer to your inquiry from what has thus been posted, then no !

 

[coulter4president]

If you cannot perceive an answer to your inquiry from what has thus been posted, then no !

i KNOW the feeling!!!!

(see thread "Y or N... hero or murderer"):dizzy:

 

[beloved57]

Lets look at this principle of Divine Election within the writings of the NT. Matt 24:22,24, and 31

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And no, these scriptures do not pertain to all earthly jews, but people of every tribe and tongue.

Lk 18:7

7And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

Rom 8:33

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Rom 9:11

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

Paul preached the purpose of God according to election in His Gospel.

2 Tim 2:10

10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

This points to Eternal Salvation in Christ is for the elect's sake ! Christ must have died only for the elect !

 

[bling]

If you cannot perceive an answer to your inquiry from what has thus been posted, then no !

So if Calvins cannot answer these simple questions, how can they expect to address the really hard questions?

 

[beloved57]

The Angels serve as an Example of Divine Election !

Paul writes of the Elect Angels 1 Tim 5:21

21I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

If there are elect Angels, this presupposes there were non elect ones as well. It appears with these creatures as well God made a Sovereign Choice of them who would be vessels of Honor and those who would be vessels of dishonor. The elect Angels who maintained there integrity were made vessels of Honor to serve His Holy Purposes, but the non elect angels He made to rebel with their leader and apostatize to also serve His Purpose. Rev 12:4

4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

In regards to these apostate creatures we read 2 Pet 2:4

4For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

But these were different from those of the Elect Angels, the Election of Grace among them, for because of their Election they were confirmed in their Holiness. Their election was before their Holiness, hence securing it, just as some men are by election, Chosen unto Holiness Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

And note, the none elect angels that rebelled, God had no mercy on them. This is vital because many religionists appeal to God as being too merciful and too loving to punish sinners everlastingly, but this account refutes that heresy, for are not angels His creatures ? Was God not still Love, even though He obviously did not Love these rebellious creatures to be merciful unto them for their sin ? The Chosen among Men partake of His Great Love and Mercy in spite of their Sin Eph 2:4-5

4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

But, God chose not to show this rich mercy and great Love to the sinning angels. Could He if He so willed ? Yes He could have, but He chose not to. Was He still a God of Love as Per 1 John 4:8

He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

But that fact did not obligate God to Love and be merciful to those angels, as well as it does not obligate God to be Love and be merciful to non elect men and women who have sinned also. So it is, we have an biblical example of Election with the Angels, and so it is with men.

 

[beloved57]

Things to Know about the Elect, the Chosen of God !

Things to know about all those God hath Chosen to Salvation !

2 Thess 2:13

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

That they were Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4 ! Thats why Paul says they were bound to give Thanks to God for them. Not their freewill choice or decision as the antichrist followers would have us believe.

That they are redeemed by the precious blood of Christ because they are Elect 1 Pet 1:2,18,19

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Lets look at the word redeemed here. It is the greek word lutroo and means:

to release on receipt of ransom
to redeem, liberate by payment of ransom
to liberate
to cause to be released to one's self by payment of a ransom
to redeem
to deliver: from evils of every kind, internal and external

Because the ransom price has been paid, the blood of Christ, they must be delivered from evil of every kind. One of the Evils they all are delivered from is unbelief. Yes Unbelief is a evil Heb 3:12

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

If one Christ died for, gave His life a ransom for, never becomes a believer or dies in unbelief, then that means Christ blood was defective.

That word unbelief is also used for paul here 1 Tim 1:13

13Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

But because Christ gave Himself for Paul , God delivered Him from unbelief .

So those Chosen before the world began are in time redeemed from evil or delivered from evil, especially that of unbelief, thats the power of the ransom blood of Christ.

 

[beloved57]

By Nature the Children of wrath even as others !

Paul writing to those Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4 writes thusly

Eph 2:1-4

1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Even though by Nature the Elect, the Chosen are Children of wrath [deserving God's wrath] as others, they are nevertheless preserved under the Covenant of Grace, by that Grace given them in their Covenant Head Christ Jesus their Mediator before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

This Grace Given before the world began regards that Everlasting Covenant of Grace that Christ became the Surety of before the world began, and all them He represented, were given Grace in Him as He was their Head, and they His Spiritual Seed.

The elect of God , though by nature are prisoners and captives to satan, yet because of their Covenant Relationship in Christ, they are captives or prisoners of Hope Zech 9:12 ! God's elect are prisoners but their condition as such, though not known to them, is much different from others in the same condition. They are Covenant Prisoners, in a Covenant with God through their Mediator, the Lord Jesus Christ.

The rest have no hope ! Eph 2:12

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

 

[beloved57]

Election !

Election, it is God's Sovereign work, so God must be Thanked for it, since He did it. 2 Thess 2:13

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

The cause of Election is God's discriminating Love to them from Everlasting, all who were Beloved of God, were chosen to salvation in Christ, for Jacob have I Loved !

Election took place in Eternity, for God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation.

Not as how the Antichrist ministers teach, that God from the beginning merely chose a plan ! See Eph 1:3-6

Election is unto Salvation [ Conversion]

Chosen to be saved through sanctification of the Spirit [ which is new birth] and Chosen to be saved through belief of the Truth !

 

[beloved57]

What to know about God's Election !

Election is God's Sovereign work Rom 9:11-13

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

2 Thess 2:13

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Many will contend that this word chosen does not mean election, but it does. It is the greek word haireō:


to take for oneself, to prefer, choose

2) to choose by vote, elect to office

Its used 3 times as the word choose , our present verse, Phil 1:22 and Heb 11:25

Also the word is in the greek in the middle voice meaning He has chosen or preferred them for Himself !

So since it is God's work and His Sovereign choice or preference, Paul writes that God must be Thanked for it !

2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

The cause of Election is God's discriminating Love from Everlasting, all who were beloved of God were chosen to Salvation in Christ, and it was discriminating from Rom 9:13

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Election took place in Eternity, God hath from the beginning Chosen you to Salvation also see Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This is not as the false teachers today teach that God hath only chosen a plan of salvation.

Election is unto Salvation, that is deliverance and conversion in this life. God has chosen to save His preferred people by the means of Sanctification of the Spirit [regeneration] and belief of the Truth [faith]

This mean all for whom God has chosen to salvation, shall be given new birth and Faith. All this is God's Sovereign Work in Election, for each chosen vessel of mercy..

 

[sky.]

Isaiah 59:17

17 For He put on righteousness as a breastplate,
And a helmet of salvation on His head;
He put on the garments of vengeance for clothing,
And was clad with zeal as a cloak.

 

[Bradley D]

Scripture does indicate that God has a chosen elect. The thing is that we do not know who they all are. A sinner who seems to be heading to hell may see the light and be saved. A person who seems to be a perfect Christian may turn to a sinful life for the rest of their lives. Therefore I must not judge. I must live a good Christ-filled life and proclaim the Gospel.

 

[beloved57]

brad

Scripture does indicate that God has a chosen elect.

Sure it does, that is Gospel, if not, there was no reason for Christ to die, no reason for the Gospel to be preached !

The thing is that we do not know who they all are.

So, God does !

A sinner who seems to be heading to hell may see the light and be saved

Thats right, Like the Apostle Paul. His Testimony is this 1 Tim 1:13-15

13Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

The other Apostles before him knew of his past history in persecuting the Church, but when they heard his testimony of the gospel they could perceive the grace of God in him and gave him the right hand of fellowship.

Gal 1:23-24

23But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.

24And they glorified God in me.

Gal 2:7-9

9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

And so it is now, if one has a testimony of the True Grace of God, the True Gospel of God, then out of charitableness we should count them among them who exhibit the Faith of God's Elect Titus 1:1

1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Thats it, if we can perceive that one acknowledges the Truth, more than likely they are of the Elect, if they persevere in that Truth against all opposition !

A person who seems to be a perfect Christian may turn to a sinful life for the rest of their lives.

Thats True, but one should not judge merely by outward appearance. Just because a person has a very religious life style, good morals and all of that, does not mean they are a Christian or were a Christian ! Did they acknowledge the Truth of the Gospel ?

Therefore I must not judge.

We must not Judge who is going to heaven or who is going to hell, but the Christian is to judge who to have fellowship with, to deny that is insanity.. How could we do as Jesus said in Jn 7:24

24Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. or the Apostle John 1 Jn 4:1

1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

How can you try the spirit of a prophet without judging the content of their testimony in order to tell if it is according to the Truth of scripture ? To forbid all judging is foolish and contrary to the scripture.

I must live a good Christ-filled life and proclaim the Gospel.

Oh really ? What is the Gospel to you ? Does it include that Christ died only for His Elect ? You do not have to know who they are to testify to that Truth..

 

[Bradley D]

Thats True, but one should not judge merely by outward appearance. Just because a person has a very religious life style, good morals and all of that, does not mean they are a Christian or were a Christian ! Did they acknowledge the Truth of the Gospel ?

Isaiah 16:7 "But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."

Only God can truly see the inward man. Although I believe one's true intentions will show themselves eventually.

"How can you try the spirit of a prophet without judging the content of their testimony in order to tell if it is according to the Truth of scripture ? To forbid all judging is foolish and contrary to the scripture."

One knows if one is telling the truth by knowing their scripture. When judging another one better make sure their intentions are right.

As for preaching the Gospel. One has to determine whether a listener is ready for "meat" or is still on "milk" (I Corinthians 3:2). I must be careful not to cause anyone to trip up.

 

[beloved57]

brad

Isaiah 16:7 "But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."

Not talking about God right now. Jesus said for Christians to Judge righteous Judgment Jn 7:24 and John wrote that Christians should try the spirits of those teaching Christ 1 Jn 4:1

1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

That takes making a Judgment. Now if it was no possibility at all for a believer to make a distancing as to what is True and False doctrine,this imperative is futile. If you cannot acknowledge something as reasonable as this, then this conversation is over, for you would not be showing reasonableness..and I don't time for that.

 

[Bradley D]

I'm not saying we do not make judgements. But a Christian must be very careful when doing so. We must not make judgements to puff up ourselves. There must always be concern for others, even our enemies. "love your enemies."