ECT Heaven is For Real

[intojoy]

Heresay: when only one person says they are truthful.
The parents can say that the child croaked and revived but they can not affirm if their child saw Heaven or the devil.

 

[oatmeal]

Paul is telling these people they are dead with Christ yet are still very much alive.

You will never fully understand the resurrection and our life in Christ as long as you do not understand that "dead in the Bible does not always speak of a person who is not still physically alive.

Read these verses and take them before God

Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances


Colossians 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God

Thanks I do understand that, but the context of being dead with Christ is not referring to the erroneous concept of the dead needing to be raised to live in order to be alive.

We are dead to sin, Romans 6, but that does not mean we have to be dead in the funeral sense in order to be dead to sin.

Being dead to sin is spiritual reality not a reference to life vs. death.

 

[patrick jane]

Thanks I do understand that, but the context of being dead with Christ is not referring to the erroneous concept of the dead needing to be raised to live in order to be alive.

We are dead to sin, Romans 6, but that does not mean we have to be dead in the funeral sense in order to be dead to sin.

Being dead to sin is spiritual reality not a reference to life vs. death.

i know a Christian singer/writer/guitar artist, he wrote a song that goes - "i'm dead and you're dead too !"

 

[Livelystone]

Actually, in Greek the word for "gave up the ghost" is exepneusen (ἐξέπνευσεν) and it literally means "he breathed out".

Amen!

Understanding this helps students of the scriptures to see why meat from sources that were strangled were forbidden by law !!!

........Because the life was still in them (that may have been unclean) not having been breathed out the last of their life as when Jesus did when He died, or when He breathed unto His disciples and said "receive ye the Holy Ghost" because the breath of Jesus was the breath of God.

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

 

[Livelystone]

Thanks I do understand that, but the context of being dead with Christ is not referring to the erroneous concept of the dead needing to be raised to live in order to be alive.

We are dead to sin, Romans 6, but that does not mean we have to be dead in the funeral sense in order to be dead to sin.

Being dead to sin is spiritual reality not a reference to life vs. death.

Which is exactly my point !!!......... you can be dead in the scriptures while still being physically alive

When someone is dead in Christ does not mean that they have physically died, and I have submitted scriptures to you that prove this !!!

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Try reading the verses I just gave to Oatmeal in the post above yours, (post # 97)

Then there is this verse I already posted you have conveniently passed by.

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost

Even the death of Jesus is still just as I say it is....... when the spirit leaves the body the person dies and when the spirit leaves it goes straight back to God

I have many more scriptural witnesses than I need to prove me right and you have none............ just your opinion that is as wrong as sin is wrong (because it is sin to deny the truth when presented with two or more witnesses with none proven false and no scriptural witnesses in your favor )......... not even one !!!!

Doug,

You are not talking about the spirit of man, you are talking about a whole living spiritual being, leaving the body at death.

That is all falsehood.

The same falsehood is behind the idea that a God left Heaven and became a little baby Jesus in Mary's womb.

This why the religions and spiritists draw attention to the Mother and child and worship Mary instead of speaking to their flocks of the resurrection of Christ when God DID take up residence fully and permanently in the man Jesus as the first of many brothers to follow.

All your view has is this imaginary Jesus who came down from Heaven to enter a human and never actually fully die, going back to God in Heaven as a spirit person who then somehow comes back to His resurrected body and then presents Himself alive before the Throne, then comes down to encourage the disciples and then goes back up to Heaven permanently.



LA

 

[Livelystone]

Doug,

You are not talking about the spirit of man, you are talking about a whole living spiritual being, leaving the body at death.

That is all falsehood.

The same falsehood is behind the idea that a God left Heaven and became a little baby Jesus in Mary's womb.

This why the religions and spiritists draw attention to the Mother and child and worship Mary instead of speaking to their flocks of the resurrection of Christ when God DID take up residence fully and permanently in the man Jesus as the first of many brothers to follow.

All your view has is this imaginary Jesus who came down from Heaven to enter a human and never actually fully die, going back to God in Heaven as a spirit person who then somehow comes back to His resurrected body and then presents Himself alive before the Throne, then comes down to encourage the disciples and then goes back up to Heaven permanently.



LA

Not sure what you mean by adding the term "spiritual being" to the discussion....... if you mean the combination of spirit and soul consider this

The spirit is male and the soul is the female that comes from the male the same as Eve came from Adam. Not only is the gender for the word translated as "soul" designate it as feminine, but we see it used in the same manner such as by David who referred to it in such terms as "darling"

When a person dies they never miss a thing as they continue to live because it is the spirit and soul of the person that lives on........ but that person certainly did die and went through all of the drama associated with their type of death as did Jesus....... but as the Bible says into His Father's hands he gave His spirit (that has its own soul) as Jesus "gave up the ghost (died when His spirit left His body)

For an example; consider if you would the difference between a person alive and then seconds later they die without any obvious and apparent physical drama, for example maybe they choked on something. Consequently when you remove this something they choked on from their windpipe you now have a dead body that is physically no different from the live body it was just a few minutes earlier except for the obvious fact that it is now a "lifeless body".

So far so good?

So what is the life missing from the dead body? It is the spirit and soul that are now gone from the body as they were resurrected unto God and judgement at the time of the person's death. This scenario is the same as when God told the rich man who wanted to build bigger barns, "this night your soul will be required of you" where the word(s) translated from the original language describes something being taken back and payment extracted from it........ why is this so? Because when the person dies the spirit and soul that is "their life" goes back to God who is Spirit and is the Father of all life where its future existence as better or worse will be decided by God.

Spirit is life and it is impossible for the spirit to die because it is from originally from God who is without beginning or end. The soul is different as it is the persona of an individual in the same manner as oak branches and leafs coming from the seed (spirit) of an oak tree. (and why people are often referred to in the Bible as trees)

Luke 12:20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?


As far as the birth of Jesus goes, the Holy Spirit from God went into the womb of Mary as the source of life that impregnated the egg within virgin womb of Mary. God still existed as God outside of the body of Jesus while the Spirit from Him provided the source of life in the baby Jesus who as He begin to mature first within Mary and then after His birth throughout His childhood, His mind, will and emotions developed as His soul within Him. There was no sperm from a man in the forming of the body of the baby Jesus.

Anything less or more then what I have shared with you is not the truth about life........ both ours and the life that Jesus gave for us so we could be given the seed of His Spirit (Christ) rather than continue to live on as Jesus. It is the free gift of salvation and when one receives it they entered into the resurrection because as Jesus said they have passed from death unto life because the spirit and soul of man is born under the curse of death.