ECT God does NOT grant eternal life

Rosenritter

New member
Baloney! Get off on the right foot in your thinking. God CANNOT be tempted . . Period! Satan would never try. Start from there for the correct perspective in understandng all else Jesus Christ.

Deu 6:16 KJV
(16) Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.

Technically God can be tempted. At least that is what Deuteronomy said, which Jesus quoted in the wilderness against Satan. Do I understand from your reaction correctly that you do not accept Jesus as your God? I can't think why else you would claim that God cannot be tempted and Satan would never try.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
God is not successfully tempted by sin. Jesus was not successfully tempted by sin. Hypothetically, if you said "God, I'll give you five dollars if you will sin right now" you are "tempting" him to sin. It won't be a successful attempt, mind you. But neither was it successful when Satan tempted Jesus.

Hebrews 2:14-18: "Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted."

As a human Jesus was like us in all things. He overcame sin and asks us to do the same if we want to be part of his family.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Why don't you answer? Give your version and open yourself up to criticism?

I'll give the scriptural version.

Hebrews 9:14: "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God."

It was through the eternal Spirit that Jesus was able to resist sin, he had a Helper.

All we need to do is to be guided by our Helper.

John 15:26: "But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me."

The Helper doesn't sin and he will not lead us into the valley of the shadow of death.

2 Timothy 1:6-7: "Therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands. For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind."

The Helper is a Spirit of power.
 

Rosenritter

New member
Hebrews 2:14-18: "Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted."

As a human Jesus was like us in all things. He overcame sin and asks us to do the same if we want to be part of his family.

"All things" obviously must be understood in context. Jesus beheld Satan fall from heaven, for example. Were either of us there for that? Jesus had the power to heal the sick and make the blind to walk. Can we do that? Jesus said that he prayed so that other people could hear, for their benefit, but that God heard him always. Is that us?

As a human Jesus was like us in all things, but as God he lowered himself to walk a mile in our shoes so that we might be able to relate to him, that he might draw all men to him when he was lifted up. He ultimately could not sin any more than God in heaven above could sin.
 

Cross Reference

New member
I'll give the scriptural version.

Not hardly do you do that here:

Hebrews 9:14: "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God."

Irrelevant

It was through the eternal Spirit that Jesus was able to resist sin, he had a Helper.

He had no helper. Jesus was left with only the written word He learned from childhood.

"Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. . . . ." Isaiah 7:14-16 (KJV)

All we need to do is to be guided by our Helper.

Who's "we" when I can't recognize yours as truth?

Read the account of His wilderness temptation-testing-proving from both Matt 4 and Luke 4 to see if your understanding holds up. BUT read both versions!
 

jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
As a human Jesus was like us in all things, but as God he lowered himself to walk a mile in our shoes so that we might be able to relate to him, that he might draw all men to him when he was lifted up. He ultimately could not sin any more than God in heaven above could sin.

I'll simplify, Jesus had a Helper and it was through the power of his Helper that he was able to resist sin.

That same Helper who helped Jesus will help us to the extent we allow him to do so.

John 16:7: "Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away the Helper will not come to you, but if I depart I will send Him to you."

Do you have a Helper? What more do you need?
 

Cross Reference

New member
"All things" obviously must be understood in context. Jesus beheld Satan fall from heaven, for example. Were either of us there for that? Jesus had the power to heal the sick and make the blind to walk. Can we do that? Jesus said that he prayed so that other people could hear, for their benefit, but that God heard him always. Is that us?

As a human Jesus was like us in all things, but as God he lowered himself to walk a mile in our shoes so that we might be able to relate to him, that he might draw all men to him when he was lifted up. He ultimately could not sin any more than God in heaven above could sin.

Jesus said a lot of things you speak against by ignoring both standalone passages and the context needed for others, and, more importantly there is no Pentecostal experience in you from which all understanding can only proceed.
 

Cross Reference

New member
I'll simplify, Jesus had a Helper and it was through the power of his Helper that he was able to resist sin.

That same Helper who helped Jesus will help us to the extent we allow him to do so.

John 16:7: "Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away the Helper will not come to you, but if I depart I will send Him to you."

Do you have a Helper? What more do you need?

Temptations/testings/provings are the same and are standalone experiences. We have many examples of this being the way God works to select His own. Look them up.
 

TweetyBird

New member
Deu 6:16 KJV
(16) Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.

Technically God can be tempted. At least that is what Deuteronomy said, which Jesus quoted in the wilderness against Satan. Do I understand from your reaction correctly that you do not accept Jesus as your God? I can't think why else you would claim that God cannot be tempted and Satan would never try.

Being tempted does not always mean tempted to sin. It can also mean tested. You shouldn't test God. Jesus was tested by satan, Jesus was not tempted to sin by satan.
 

Cross Reference

New member
As a human Jesus was like us in all things. He overcame sin and asks us to do the same if we want to be part of his family.

Never is it asked. It is a requirement enabled by Him for success. Ya there yet? That is what the new birth is all about.
 

Rosenritter

New member
Jesus said a lot of things you speak against by ignoring both standalone passages and the context needed for others, and, more importantly there is no Pentecostal experience in you from which all understanding can only proceed.
No "Pentecostal experience?" and by supposing this you cover scripture coming straight out and speaking against you when you claim God does not give eternal life?
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Lets start here to set this straight before moving on. You might want to do a rewrite in your thinking.

1. I did not mention anywhere of our physical death being a "spiritual" one.

However, when it does die: ". . . the 'dust' returns to the earth from it came with[B ]the spirit returning to God who gave it[/B]. Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV)

. . . a. Man's soul and body are held together by the "Breath of Life" that is of God which we ore commonly call the "spirit of man” or our “human spirit", our human spirit being loan from God for as long as his body remains alive, intact with his “mind, will and emotions”, his soul, that which makes man, eternal:

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul". Genesis 2:7 (KJV)

Mans 'being' consists of body and soul and spirit. Separate them and he stops being a living being.

The source of life in Adam was his obedience to God. When Adam transgressed, God departed his "being" because He could not abide sin in His presence. Notice it was God Who departed Adam and not the other way around. That fact gives us understanding as to why we misunderstand when believing Adam as becoming spiritually dead. This also explains Cain and Abel. He wasn't and they weren't. Their Body, soul, and spirits were left intact and this is what could only be the case until actual physical death could happen. Jesus addresses this by using Himself to explain it."And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost [His human spirit and Holy Spirit, which were in complete union]". Luke 23:46 (KJV) He died. His body went into the grave and His soul descended into hell for three days. His sinless life made that possible: "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." Psalm 16:10 (KJV) Death had no hold on Him as it has no hold on innocence.

To sum up we have these words of Jesus:

". . . . I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believes in me, though he were [physically] dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever lives and believes in me shall never die. .. . . " John 11:25-26 (KJV) His soul, [mind, will and emotions] and spirit are in His keeping: And . . "if the Spirit of him [God’s, "breath of life"] that raised up Jesus from the grave dwells in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwells in you." Romans 8:11 (KJV)

For the new born from above, it is the same Spirit and for which Paul has these words: "Have this mind in yourselves, which is yours by Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped", Philippians 2:5-6 (CRV). This is also why Jesus could say this because of His human spirit being in such complete with union with the Spirit of God: "The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that their [souls] may be one even as we are one " [soul] ,John 17:22 (ESV). No death in that even when the body decays, the departs because the human spirit is in union with the "source of life". It cannot be otherwise.

Hence, the soul, that which a person is, cannot return to God without being reconciled to Him; without the peace made in man’s behalf by Jesus Christ, is “fully” received to his soul.. . . with the stamp of God on it.

[emphasis mine]

This is just a bunch of rambling gibberish!

People are dead in sin unless and until they become believers in Christ and then they are made alive in Him. There can't be anything more "eternal life" than being in Christ. When we become saved, it is eternal death that we are saved from.

Now that's just simple Christianity 101. Every third grade Sunday School student understands that much.

You are, at best, making a distinction without a difference and at worst, intentionally creating needless confusion. The evidence of which is your complete lack of any ability to articulate what in the world you're talking about.

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
He did God's Will

How? By what means? Are we able to do greater works than Jesus?

John 14:12: "Most assuredly I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also and greater works than these he will do because I go to My Father."
 

Bright Raven

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Hall of Fame
Do you think Jesus, who is the Lord of Heaven and Earth, and King of all the earth was tempted to bow down to satan?

Yes, Of course

Matthew 4:1-11 New King James Version (NKJV)

Satan Tempts Jesus
4 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”

4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’”[a]

5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:

‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’
and,

‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’”
7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’”[c]

8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”

10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you,[d] Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”[e]

11 Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him.
 
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