ECT "GLOSSOLALIA" This might help some

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THE SPIRIT BADE ME GO – David du Plessis

GLOSSOLALIA
*
Research on the meaning and effects of “glossolalia”
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"I am a physicist doing research work for a large chemical company. I am also a seminary graduate and an Episcopal priest."

Thus begins the testimony of the Rev. WiIliam O. Swan, published in Trinity Magazine, P.O. Box 2422, Van Nuys, California, at Easter of 1962. He continues his story as follows:

***** "We went into the cathedral for prayers. When I left, I had heard my own lips forming a new language, and I knew they could do it again when I so desired.

"1 decided to make speaking in tongues the object of an introspective study. Where does it really come from, in terms of theology, psychology, common sense? .. How much imagination is required to make the claims I have heard about?

***** "To get the answers, I spoke in tongues occasionally throughout the day. I was looking for patterns, repetitive phrases, clues to use for analysis. But the experiment ran into immediate difficulty.

 That 'before-the-altar' feeling would come upon me within about 45 seconds, and if I persisted for two or three minutes, I would fill with emotion.

"Since then, when I speak in tongues a simple feeling of love will drench my whole person, and appear to leave a perma*nent stain of love which does not evaporate.

"In three short days the experimental study was over, with practically all my questions still unanswered.

 I had discovered most powerfully what everyone else seems to assume: speaking in tongues is prayer!"

The writer of this article was praying with the Rev. Swan when he received the baptism in the Holy Spirit in St. Paul’s *Episcopal Cathedral, Detroit, Mich.

Speaking in Tongues Is Prayer

"For one who speaks in an [unknown] tongue speaks not to men but to God, for no one understands [him] ... because in the [Holy] Spirit he utters secret truths and hidden things [not obvious to the understanding]" (I Cor. 14: 2, Amp. N.T.).

"So too the (Holy) Spirit comes to our aid and bear us up in our weakness; for we do not know what prayer to offer nor how to offer it worthily as we ought, but the Spirit Himself goes to meet our supplication and pleads in our behalf with unspeakable yearnings and groanings too deep for utterance. [Writer’s note: This I believe is just another way of describing praying in tongues.]

And He Who searches the hearts of men knows what is in the mind of the (Holy) Spirit ... because the Spirit intercedes and pleads [before God] in behalf of the saints according to and in harmony with God's will" (Rom. 8: 26, 27, Amp. N.T.)

The Apostle Paul, who spoke with tongues more than all his contemporaries (I Cor. 1: 18), never makes mention of an instance where it would seem that the church or anyone received a message in tongues, or even in tongues and interpretation.

****** He writes: "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful" (I Cor. 14:14). Then he says: "I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also" (I Cor. 14: 15).

****** In verse 16 he says: “Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit [in tongues], how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks [prayer], seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest [in tongues]?"

It seems quite clear to me that

 Paul considered all speaking in tongues as prayer and as always addressed to God, never a "message" to men.

 Prayer can be giving thanks, making intercession, praise, worship, adoration, and confessing our love, admiration, gratitude, and devotion to God. In this we are too often weak, but "the Spirit helpeth our infirmities."

Interpretation of Tongues

Now then, if speaking in tongues is speaking to God, it is always prayer, and the interpretation will always be in the form of prayer man speaking to God, and not God speaking to men.

Even on the day of Pentecost, when unbelievers heard their own languages spoken by those who were speaking in tongues for the first time, they did not hear messages or sermons addressed to them, but they heard them "speak in ... tongues, the wonderful works of God."

Then also in the house of Cornelius: "They heard them talking in [unknown] languages and extolling and magnifying God" (Acts 10: 46, Amp. N.T.) .

Paul says: "I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rath*er that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh in tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying” (l Cor. 14: 5) .

***** "Thus, tongues followed by interpretation edifies the Church, and so also "he that prophesieth edifieth the church" (I Cor. 14: 4) .

Prophecy is edifying to the Church, and tongues plus interpretation edifies the Church. Indeed, both are edifying, but it does not say that tongues plus interpretation is prophecy.

Interpretation must be prayer, for

 speaking in tongues is speaking to God, and

 prophesying is speaking "to men for their upbuilding and constructive spiritual progress and encouragement and consolation" (I Cor. 14: 3, Amp. N.T.).

All too often we hear of a "message in tongues."

***** There is no such term, or suggestion in the New Testament. It should rather be "a prayer in tongues" or perhaps "an utterance in tongues."

"He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself" (vs. 4). Naturally, because speaking to God in prayer, no matter where or when or how, will always edify, comfort or encourage the one who prays. The more edified anyone is the more hope there is of being used of the Spirit to edify others in the Church.

Since speaking in tongues is prayer, it does not mean that what follows "an utterance in tongues" must be interpretation.

**** It could very well be an answer to the prayer just uttered by the Spirit, for prayer, real prayer, should be a dialogue between Father and child, and our Father speaks to His children in prophecy.

Some Questions on Interpretation

I have prayed with multitudes who came to seek the baptism in the Holy Spirit from the mighty Baptizer, the Lord Jesus Christ.

**** He said: "Those who believe ... will speak in new languages" (Mark 16: 17, Amp. N.T.).

Even after forty years of experience I never cease to thrill* when I pray with those who encounter Christ as their Baptizer (John 1: 33, 34) and hear them begin to speak "new tongues," "other tongues," "unknown tongues," or "divers kinds of tongues," as the Spirit gives utterance.

**** Yes indeed, they speak, but it is the Spirit who gives utterance. He forms the words on their lips as they speak by faith in Him, to magnify God.

Then someone will ask: "While I was speaking in tongues, it seemed I received a strange understanding of what I was saying to God in tongues. Was that interpretation?"

**** Yes, the Holy Spirit quickened your understanding to know what He was saying to God in an unknown tongue through your tongue.

Someone else asks: "As I was speaking in tongues it seemed as if I received through my understanding some new revelations and some answers to my problems. Was that interpretation?"

**** No, that was not interpretation. That was answer to your prayer. That was the dialogue between you and the Father. You speak to Him in tongues and He speaks to you through your understanding.

**** Any revelation that comes to you personally through your understanding is never interpretation, for speaking in tongues is speaking to God.

The Father does not speak to you in tongues; you speak to Him in tongues.

Then again comes another question: "While I was speaking in tongues, I received a message for the Church (or for someone) ; was that interpretation?"

**** No, that was not interpretation. That was prophecy, and you should learn to speak out such revela*tions, very .calmly, reverently, and confidently.

**** It may be the answer to the prayer in the Spirit that you have prayed for oth*ers, or for the Church. Do not get excited and shout or scream out the words.

Lately 1 have often been asked: "How can I know what is in*terpretation and what is prophecy?"

**** Interpretation of tongues is always addressed to God and ends in Him. Prophecy is addressed to the people, for edification, exhortation, and comfort.

Some Common Misunderstanding

Recently a minister said to me: "I have some real problems in regard to interpretation of tongues in my church.

**** Someone will speak in a tongue and it sounds like a prayer repeated two or three times. Then another will begin to interpret, but there is no repetition in the interpretation.

In fact the interpretation usually lasts much longer than the tongues. Those who listen carefully feel that they cannot accept this as true interpretation."

I think they are right. Why should everything that follows an utterance in tongues necessarily be interpretation?

**** Suppose you heard someone pray in your own language: "Lord, bless Thy people; they need edification. O Lord, Thy people need exhortation today. Dear Lord, speak a word of comfort to Thy people."

**** Would you be surprised if this prayer is followed by a rather lengthy word of prophecy that is truly edifying and comforting? No, not at all.

Then why not accept for your guidance the Scriptural principle that speaking in tongues is prayer and what follows may often be the answer to the prayer and not the interpretation of the prayer.

**** Then my friend asked further: "How is it that sometimes a person will commence to speak with tongues, just a few sentences,
-********* and then he proceeds to interpret himself, but he gives a long message and does not revert back to tongues again. Was that interpretation?"

**** No, that was prayer in tongues, followed by prophecy.

**** Prayer can lead to the most wonderful answers and experiences. No matter who speaks in tongues, or how long or short the utterance, I always accept it all as prayer.

****If the speaker in tongues or someone else follows with words like: "O Lord our God, how great Thou art," and then continues in that strain, speaking to God, I know that is pure interpretation.

May We Speak With Tongues Any Time?

Surely, we can pray any time and anywhere. So why not pray in tongues any time?

**** The Holy Spirit has become resident within us and He is there twenty-four hours a day, every day, all the year round. Paul writes to Timothy:

"Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands."

(Writer's note: I believe Paul prayed for Timothy when he received the baptism in the Holy Spirit, just like he prayed for the Ephesians in Acts 19: 6.)

Paul further reminds Timothy: "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind" (Il Tim. 1: 6, 7).

 How we need this power, this love and a sound mind. Stir Him up and pray in His power, His love, and His sound mind, at all times and anywhere.

The power of praying in the Spirit

I do not think anyone has ever fathomed the depth and the grace that comes from praying with the Spirit.

**** No wonder Pau1 thanked God that he prayed with tongues more than all. Look at the grace, the wisdom, the power, and the ministry that Paul enjoyed on earth.

**** He found it wise to speak but five words with the understanding in the church, after he had prayed ten thousand words in a tongue at home.

Then comes the question: "Why can we speak in tongues any time and yet we cannot interpret or prophesy any time?"

**** Be*cause speaking in tongues is speaking to God and it edifies the speaker, but interpretation and prophecy are speaking to men; therefore men shou1d be present to hear in order to re*ceive edification.

****The "speaker in tongues" a1ways needs edification and can receive it anywhere, any time, by praying in tongues. However, let all our speaking or praying in tongues always be very reverent, for we are speaking to our heaven1y Father.

Is Speaking in Tongue a Gift?

The ability to speak with tongues is not a gift. It is a "mani*festation of the Spirit" (I Cor. 12: 7).

**** New tongues, Mark 16:.1!; other tongues, Acts 2: 4; tongues, Acts 10.46 and 19: 6; diversities of tongues, I Cor. 12: 10, 28; unknown tongues 1 Cor. 14: 2, 4, 5, 6, 13, 14, 18, 22, 26, 27, and 39 are ALL simply manifestations of the Spirit (I Cor. 12: 7), and are spoken by believers (Mark 16: 17), with the Spirit (I Cor. 14: 14, 15), which means "yielding to" or "co-operating with" the Holy Spirit.
The term "gift of tongues" was coined by those who did not have the experience.

The gifts of the Spirit are simply “manifestations”

***All gifts of the Spirit (I Cor. 12: 4) are actual1y and simply manifestations of the Spirit (I Cor. 12: 7), and they are not enablements in the sense that anyone may possess the ability to "use the gift."

To write this article I am using a typewriter. This machine can write letters, words, and sentences, but never unless someone uses it. Of itself it can do nothing, but I can cause it to write what I want.

 The Holy Spirit causes us to do what He wants if only we will be as cooperative as the typewriter.

Even Jesus never claimed any ability as a gift He possessed. He says: "I assure you . . . the Son is able to do nothing from Himself - of His own accord; but He is able to do only what He sees the Father doing" (John 5: 19, Amp. N.T.).

He teaches His disciples that when they meet any challenge in councils or courts, they should "say whatever is given you in that hour and at that moment, for it is not you who will be speaking but the Holy Spirit" (Mark 13: 11, Amp. N.T.).

***This is the principle or basis on which the Holy Spirit manifests His gifts through believers.

Personally I have learned not to claim to possess any gift of the Spirit, but I do possess the Gift of God (and He possesses me) which is the Spirit of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. He will manifest himself through me, or anyone else, as He will (I Cor. 12: 11) .

Like Paul the Apostle, I have discovered that the Holy Spirit who seeks to build up the Church will always most certainly first build up or edify the one He uses to edify the Church.

**** I have learned to pray with tongues any time, anywhere, to receive assur*ance, power, and wisdom or whatever is needed for my edification.

**** In such cases the ability to speak with tongues is not the gift I have, but rather the effect of praying with tongues is the gift of the Spirit to me.

I consider that any manifestation of the Spirit that may come through me, such as the word of wisdom, word of knowledge, prophecy, healing, and so forth, are gifts of the Spirit to my listeners -not to me, but through me to the others.

When Are Tongues a Sign?

Jesus said: "These signs shall follow them that believe ... they shall speak with new tongues" (Mark 16: 17).

***** Paul says: "Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not" (l Cor. 14: 22).

On the day of Pentecost the believers "were filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance" (Acts 2: 4).

***** The unbelievers, out of every nation under heaven, "were confounded, because that every man heard them speak his own language ... the wonderful works of God" (Acts 2: 6 and Il). This surely was a sign to those that believed not, that God was in them of a truth (I Cor. 14: 25).

During the past forty years I know of many instances where total unbelievers and severe critics heard someone speak in what to the speaker was an "unknown" tongue, but to the listener it was his own mother-tongue.
***** In such cases it may be unknown tongues to the one who speaks, but it sounds like prophecy to the one who understands that language. I think this is where we get confused with Paul's statement in I Corinthians 14: 22-25.

***** It seems that he speaks of tongues as being prophecy, understandable to the unbeliever, and yet not understandable to the speaker. Only when one has witnessed such cases can one really grasp the meaning of "tongues are for a sign."

It is a great pity that many have interpreted tongues to be a sign of the baptism in the Holy Spirit, and so they are satisfied with speaking just a few words :n tongues.

***** People in Pentecostal movements are very fond of the expression, "Tongues is the initial evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit." This is not found in Scripture, but it is nevertheless the truth according to the record in the Acts, from the day of Pentecost onward.

***** No other sign could have given greater assurance, for they had cast out devils, healed the sick, done miracles, spoken the word of wisdom and of knowledge, and prophesied before the day* of Pentecost.

All the manifestations of the Holy Spirit are found in the Old Testament, except speaking with tongues.

In the case of Samaria (Acts 8: 8-17) there is no mention of tongues. But how did they know that they had not received the Holy Ghost (vs. 16), and how did they know that they did when they had laid hands upon them? (vs. 17). How did Simon recognize that anything had happened to them? (vs. 18).

Well, how did they know that they had received in the house of Cornelius? (Acts 10: 44-46). There was no time to see whether they could heal the sick or do miracles or prophesy, but they knew at once, "for they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God" (vs. 46). By the same token Paul knew when he prayed for the Ephesians. "They spake with tongues, and prophesied" (Acts 19: 6).
However, let us remember that tongues is more than a sign, more than an initial evidence, more than a strange phenomenon.
***** To pray with the Spirit in tongues is the most edifying experience that any child of God can have.

-********* The practice of praying in tongues should continue and increase in the lives of those who are baptized in the Spirit, otherwise they may find that the other manifestations of the Spirit come seldom or stop altogether.

-********* If you wish to edify your brethren in the church, then keep on edifying yourself by the constant practice of praying with the Spirit in your private devotions.

 Tongues are not for public ministry but for private devotions, at home and in the church.
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When to Pray for Interpretation
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"So it is with yourselves; since you are so eager ... to possess . .. manifestations of the (Holy) Spirit, [concentrate on] striving to excel and to abound [in them] in ways which will build up the church. Therefore, the person who speaks in an [unknown] tongue [in the church] should pray [for the power] to interpret" (I Cor. 14: 12, 13, Amp. N.T.).*

There is nowhere any suggestion that anyone should pray for "the gift of interpretation." The speaker in tongues is told to pray that he may interpret by the Spirit; then that interpretation becomes the gift of the Spirit to the Church for edification.

***** I strongly hold to the position that neither the Church nor anyone in the church should ever lay hands on any person that he may receive any gifts of the Spirit,

 but only that he may receive the gift of God, which is the Holy Spirit.

 The Apostles never laid hands on anyone to receive gifts of the Spirit.

 Paul simply admonishes the Church to "covet earnestly the best gifts" (I Col. 12: 31), and warns them that "forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts [writer's note: I prefer the word "manifestations" to that of "gifts" used by the King James trans*lators], seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church" (I Cor. 14: 12).

 Here the golden rule is, "All for the edifying of the Church."
Now, what are the best gifts? Only the Holy Spirit will know this. He alone will know in every gathering just which of the manifestations will bring the greatest blessing or the most edifi*cation to the believers and unbelievers. Whatever is needed most will always be the best. He knows our every need and the will of God.

***** There is great danger (and no Scripture) to lay hands on those who have just received the baptism in the Spirit and begin to speak with tongues that they might interpret what they say.
Let them speak to God and not to man, and let them speak mysteries.

The wisest thing we can do is to advise novices in the things of the Spirit to learn to yield to Him that they may soon
 be used by Him to manifest himself through them, bringing forth any of the "gifts" that may be needed by others.

 First let the Spirit edify or build them into channels that He can use. Since the most edifying manifestation is prophecy, one should expect that the Spirit will manifest prophetic gifts rather than interpretation.
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Regulate but Do Not Forbid Tongues
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Now comes the question of how much tongues and interpretation or prophecy there should be in any gathering or in the church.
Paul writes: "If some speak in a [strange] tongue, let the number be limited to two or at the most three, and each one [taking his] turn, and let one interpret and explain …*

***** But if there is no one [writer's note: among the three] to do the interpreting, let each of them keep still in the church and talk to himself and lo God" (I Cor. 14: 27, 28, Amp. N.T.).

- Here is good advice. If you feel moved by the Spirit, then "whisper" in tongues but do not stop speaking.

However, note that the question of interpretation is only imperative when there is a loud and clear speaking in tongues in the church.

***** It seems quite dear that the Apostle did not expect interpretation to follow after the first utterance in tongues. Only after two or three such utterances must there be interpretation. Otherwise, it would seem that the Holy Spirit did not deem that interpretation is needed for the edification of that gathering.
I believe that inasmuch as the next verse dearly states that there should be no more than two or three prophets who speak, it is always wise to limit interpretations to two or three in any meeting.

***** From personal experience and observation, I would say that we have far too many interpretations and not nearly enough prophecies in most gatherings. Paul urges that all should seek lo prophesy (I Cor. 14: l) .

"Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order" (I Cor. 14: 39, 40) .*

Note: Those texts followed by (Amp. N.T.) are quoted from the Amplified New Testament. All others are from the King James Version.
 
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CJLind

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Musterion, who is he?
Who am I? Just someone born in sin, with zero righteousness before a holy God except that which, by His grace, I have been given in Christ. His death was mine, His life is mine, and I am His. God says that is all I need so there's nothing to fear, ever.

It´s quite interesting that you use the indefinite article "a" to describe God, my "Friend". How comes? You see, I am ironic, of course I know you, and you know me....
 

Cross Reference

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I think that is the best breakdown i have seen.

thank you for all the work.

Thank you. That has guided my thinking for many years even before that paper was written.

I have come believe that regardless of opinions/enlightenments or even our experiences, we should always be open for spiritual adjustment simply because we can never put God in a box and dispense Him according to some particular pattern. Realizing that does not lessen our responsibility in putting everything up against His written word.
 
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CJLind

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Thank you. That has guided my thinking for many years even before that paper was written.

I have come believe that regardless of opinions/enlightenments or even our experiences, we should always be open for spiritual adjustment simply because we can never put God in a box and dispense Him according to some particular pattern. Realizing that does not lessen our responsibility in putting everything up against His written word.

David! Can I ask you a question? I had some very spiritual experiences in church while worshipping and praying, but it was always just temporary, and it was even scary, like i could not really surrender because the feelings were just sooo intense...However, somehow I am now in this constant awareness of His presence and it is just beyond anything that i could really explain to you. I still have some challenges due to the HIS unbelievable majesty and greatness and my immeasurable debt with HIM. Don´t know How to describe, but I could basically just be on my knees all the time. However, He is so gentle and soft, it is just crazy, ...does that make any sense to you? I owe Him so so much, you wouldn´t believe, but what He basically says, there is no debt at all.....
words are just a very insufficient way of communication when it comes to expressing the gratitude i feel and the awe grasping a hint of the majesty of HIS work for me/us....
 
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To be clear Fellows, I am NOT David Du plessis. He was a much revered man.

Mr. Pentecost, as he is best known, a South African, died decades ago but not before I had a chance to sit under his gifted teaching re all things Pentecostal. He was not of any particular denomination and witnessed great outpourings of the Holy Spirit in all sects from RCC to Pentecostal to which he was invited __ many sought him out including the Pope. I believe he was the evidence of this passage and helped in the fruit bearing of many he mentored: "In the last days , I will pour out My Spirit upon all flesh". I hasten to add that at the same time ['50's, 60's and 70's] was the enemy at work planting his tares which we witness today. I was there. I witnessed much.

The Holy Spirit leaped right over all the protestant denominations to witness to the RCC. Look magazine did a big writeup of it all in 1965 with it starting at Notre Dame University and the "sprinkling of the Spirit" in His wake over many other Christians sects. Miracles happened! Again, with the enemy always poised to discredit, I was there. I saw it. I was part of it in San Fransisco 1969. The Catholics were hungry at the University..

I hope you all will copy those papers and refer to them when the questions/doubts arise __ as i know they will because that is the way of the enemy.
 
C

CJLind

Guest
To be clear Fellows, I am NOT David Du plessis. He was a much revered man.

Mr. Pentecost, as he is best known, a South African, died decades ago but not before I had a chance to sit under his gifted teaching re all things Pentecostal. He was not of any particular denomination and witnessed great outpourings of the Holy Spirit in all sects from RCC to Pentecostal to which he was invited __ many sought him out including the Pope. I believe he was the evidence of this passage and helped in the fruit bearing of many he mentored: "In the last days , I will pour out My Spirit upon all flesh". I hasten to add that at the same time ['50's, 60's and 70's] was the enemy at work planting his tares which we witness today. I was there. I witnessed much.

The Holy Spirit leaped right over all the protestant denominations to witness to the RCC. Look magazine did a big writeup of it all in 1965 with it starting at Notre Dame University and the "sprinkling of the Spirit" in His wake over many other Christians sects. Miracles happened! Again, with the enemy always poised to discredit, I was there. I saw it. I was part of it in San Fransisco 1969. The Catholics were hungry at the University..

I hope you all will copy those papers and refer to them when the questions/doubts arise __ as i know they will because that is the way of the enemy.

Wow, ok, learning something here, thanks! I am definitely going to check the papers. Even if you are not David, i appreciate it. In Zambia there are so many different denominations, it´s just ridiculous, and most of the churches preach a false or at least a weak gospel. Am fortunate that the Holy Spirit guided me to a Spirit filled church. This whole division of believers is probably one of the most effective tactics the enemy uses....the most successful is however, that he convinced the majority of the people, if of Christians, that he doesn't exist at all...
 

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Wow, ok, learning something here, thanks! I am definitely going to check the papers. Even if you are not David, i appreciate it. In Zambia there are so many different denominations, it´s just ridiculous, and most of the churches preach a false or at least a weak gospel. Am fortunate that the Holy Spirit guided me to a Spirit filled church. This whole division of believers is probably one of the most effective tactics the enemy uses....the most successful is however, that he convinced the majority of the people, if of Christians, that he doesn't exist at all...

Being a praise to God is all you need do with your life.. Make your worship to Him be your life. Forget everything else. His promise is to keep you to Himself regardless of what comes against you. Be sensitive to only that which is impressed upon you that you recognize as being His leading. Learn His ways. He is Faithful. His Promises are true. . . . :)
 
C

CJLind

Guest
Being a praise to God is all you need do with your life.. Make your worship to Him be your life. Forget everything else. His promise is to keep you to Himself regardless of what comes against you. Be sensitive to only that which is impressed upon you that you recognize as being His leading. Learn His ways. He is Faithful. His Promises are true. . . . :)

Thank you, Brother! He really is worthy all of our praise! When one wakes up to this spiritual reality, it becomes almost impossible to understand how one could have been so deceived. I didn´t grow up as a born again Christian, got baptized, but never was introduced to the raised/living Jesus and also not to the Holy Spirit, all they were preaching was the Jesus at the cross. It was a very depressing existence, guess you can imagine...
Anyway, i will take your advise, which seems very reasonable (yeah, having faith in the most Faithful and Most High is really the only really reasonable thing to do.) I think one thing i can give you as well to think about: For me, Faith is nowadays even becoming secondary to love, i just simply love HIM, so much that it hurts sometimes, faith is a great start, but these days i am experiencing His perfect love and his presence first hand, no doubt, hope it will stay that way, guess there is where faith becomes important again. Anyway, I guess you know that I love you as well! Wish you all the best in your ministry, you are doing a very important job, may the Holy Spirit always guide you and provide you with everything required to do what you were called far....
 

Word based mystic

New member
To be clear Fellows, I am NOT David Du plessis. He was a much revered man.

Mr. Pentecost, as he is best known, a South African, died decades ago but not before I had a chance to sit under his gifted teaching re all things Pentecostal. He was not of any particular denomination and witnessed great outpourings of the Holy Spirit in all sects from RCC to Pentecostal to which he was invited __ many sought him out including the Pope. I believe he was the evidence of this passage and helped in the fruit bearing of many he mentored: "In the last days , I will pour out My Spirit upon all flesh". I hasten to add that at the same time ['50's, 60's and 70's] was the enemy at work planting his tares which we witness today. I was there. I witnessed much.

The Holy Spirit leaped right over all the protestant denominations to witness to the RCC. Look magazine did a big writeup of it all in 1965 with it starting at Notre Dame University and the "sprinkling of the Spirit" in His wake over many other Christians sects. Miracles happened! Again, with the enemy always poised to discredit, I was there. I saw it. I was part of it in San Fransisco 1969. The Catholics were hungry at the University..

I hope you all will copy those papers and refer to them when the questions/doubts arise __ as i know they will because that is the way of the enemy.

I believe from what I have noticed in history.
that God desires to bring about great evidences of His glory to (each generation).
Through His Spirit using His Believers in Christ.

I also have noticed that when the gospel is first brought to a new people group or tongue His Glory and the miracles are plentiful and blossom quickly if the missionary believes.
Thus validating to the new people group the power of the gospel.
and destroying the witchcraft/shamans/signs and wonders as false and secondary.

I always enjoy your threads
 

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I believe from what I have noticed in history.
that God desires to bring about great evidences of His glory to (each generation).
Through His Spirit using His Believers in Christ.

I also have noticed that when the gospel is first brought to a new people group or tongue His Glory and the miracles are plentiful and blossom quickly if the missionary believes.
Thus validating to the new people group the power of the gospel.
and destroying the witchcraft/shamans/signs and wonders as false and secondary.

I always enjoy your threads

That was was very kind of you Wbm. Thank you.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
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[BThe Apostle Paul, who spoke with tongues more than all his contemporaries (I Cor. 1: 18), never makes mention of an instance where it would seem that the church or anyone received a message in tongues, or even in tongues and interpretation.


 Paul considered all speaking in tongues as prayer and as always addressed to God, never a "message" to men.


Liar.

22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.

7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,

/end thread
 

Word based mystic

New member
Liar.

22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.

7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,

/end thread

the sign was for unbelievers to hear in their native language the gospel. This type of tongue was and is to unbelievers.

however

1 cor 14:4
One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church. 5Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.

lets bring the fullness of the gospel not just bits and pieces.
 

Cross Reference

New member
Liar.

22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.

7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,

/end thread

When are you going to get it through your thick head that no one gives a hoot for your "unlearned", Satanic opinion? Not only that but __ you are a boor.
 
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