Gentile converts had the same law.

Elia

Well-known member
Not so. First, the Hebrew:

`almah (al-maw'); Noun Feminine, Strong #: 5959

1. virgin, young woman of marriageable age
2. maid or newly married ++++ There is no instance where it can be proved that this word designates a young woman who is not a virgin. (Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament)

You have no call to say virgin is not scriptural, more certainly nothing was added.

Bs"d



The vast majority of the English translations are hopelessly corrupted in Isaiah 7:14. Here is the footnote of the Contemporary English Version, who says "virgin" there:
Isaiah 7:14 virgin: Or "young woman." In this context the difficult Hebrew word did not imply a virgin birth. However, in the Greek translation made about 200 (B.C. )and used by the early Christians, the word parthenos had a double meaning. While the translator took it to mean "young woman," Matthew understood it to mean "virgin" and quoted the passage (Matthew 1.23) because it was the appropriate description of Mary, the mother of Jesus.

They do admit it doesn't imply a virgin birth, but they still mistranslate it as such.

Revised Standard Version: "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Imman'u-el."

New World Translation: "Therefore J-e-h-o-v-a-h himself will give YOU men a sign: Look! The maiden herself will actually become pregnant, and she is giving birth to a son, and she will certainly call his name Im·man´u·el."

The Hebrew word is "almah", and here you can see what it means:

http://www.milon.co.il/general/general.php?term=עלמה

You can also look here in this Hebrew interlinear and see what it means in the translation right under the Hebrew word: http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/isa7.pdf

Don't look on the side, because that has the corrupted KJV.

Also in google translate you can see what "almah" means:

http://translate.google.com/?hl=en&ie=UTF8#iw|en|עלמה

Here is websters online dictionary for "almah": http://www.websters-online-dictiona...dlq&cof=FORID:9&ie=UTF-8&q=עלמה&sa=Search#922

So now you know what it means: "girl, young woman", and NOT virgin.

Now you also know how you are being lied to by corrupted translations.

Secondly, taken as just "young woman" is stupid. It is not a sign for a young woman to give birth, something that only happens probably every so many seconds in the world, all the time. But it is a sign for a virgin to give birth. Try context some time: you may find it enlightening.

The prophecy of Isaiah 7:

1: In the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, son of Uzzi'ah, king of Judah, Rezin the king of Syria and Pekah the son of Remali'ah the king of Israel came up to Jerusalem to wage war against it, but they could not conquer it. 2: When the house of David was told, "Syria is in league with E'phraim," his heart and the heart of his people shook as the trees of the forest shake before the wind. 3: And the LORD said to Isaiah, "Go forth to meet Ahaz, you and She'ar-jash'ub your son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool on the highway to the Fuller's Field, 4: and say to him, `Take heed, be quiet, do not fear, and do not let your heart be faint because of these two smoldering stumps of firebrands, at the fierce anger of Rezin and Syria and the son of Remali'ah. 5: Because Syria, with E'phraim and the son of Remali'ah, has devised evil against you, saying, 6: "Let us go up against Judah and terrify it, and let us conquer it for ourselves, and set up the son of Ta'be-el as king in the midst of it," 7: thus says the Lord GOD: It shall not stand, and it shall not come to pass.
8: For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin. (Within sixty-five years E'phraim will be broken to pieces so that it will no longer be a people.) 9: And the head of E'phraim is Sama'ria, and the head of Sama'ria is the son of Remali'ah. If you will not believe, surely you shall not be established.'" 10: Again the LORD spoke to Ahaz,
11: "Ask a sign of the LORD your God; let it be deep as Sheol or high as heaven." 12: But Ahaz said, "I will not ask, and I will not put the LORD to the test." 13: And he said, "Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you weary my God also? 14: Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Imman'u-el. 15: He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16: For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted."

We see here in Isaiah 7, that king Achaz, the king of Judah, is afraid of two neighboring kings.
It is important to know that after the death of king Solomo the kingdom of Israel split up into two parts; into the kingdom of Judah, and the kingdom of Israel.
The kingdom om Judah was made up of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and a part of the Levites. The kingdom of Israel was made up of the other ten tribes.
Achaz was king over Judah, and in this prophecy the king of Israel is Pekah, the son of Remaliah.
And Pekah had made a covenant with the king of Syria, called Resin, to attack together the kingdom of Judah.
This news caused king Achaz considerable stress, because he had a dark suspicion that things could very well turn out not so very rosy for him.
Therefore God sent Isaiah to Achaz, in order to tell him that things would work out just fine for him. God tells Achaz that he will give him a sign. Here is the sign: "14: Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman is pregnant and is giving birth to a son, and she called his name Imman'u-el. 15: He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16: For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted."

God says that before the child of the young woman who is pregnant will grow up, the land of the two kings, Resin of Syria, and Pekah of Israel, will be deserted, that is devoid of people. Those two nations will be led into exile.
So this is a sign for king Achaz, who lived about 700 years before JC.

And the Bible tells us that this prophecy came true: "27: In the fifty-second year of Azari'ah king of Judah Pekah the son of Remali'ah began to reign over Israel in Sama'ria, and reigned twenty years. 28: And he did what was evil in the sight of the LORD; he did not depart from the sins of Jerobo'am the son of Nebat, which he made Israel to sin. 29: In the days of Pekah king of Israel Tig'lath-pile'ser king of Assyria came and captured I'jon, A'bel-beth-ma'acah, Jan-o'ah, Kedesh, Hazor, Gilead, and Galilee, all the land of Naph'tali; and he carried the people captive to Assyria. 30: Then Hoshe'a the son of Elah made a conspiracy against Pekah the son of Remali'ah, and struck him down, and slew him, and reigned in his stead, in the twentieth year of Jotham the son of Uzzi'ah."
II Kings 15.

We see here that the population of Israel indeed went into exile, and that the land of king Pekah was deserted.

And here is what happened to Resin, the king of Syria:
"6: At that time the king of Edom recovered Elath for Edom, and drove the men of Judah from Elath; and the E'domites came to Elath, where they dwell to this day. 7: So Ahaz sent messengers to Tig'lath-pile'ser king of Assyria, saying, "I am your servant and your son. Come up, and rescue me from the hand of the king of Syria and from the hand of the king of Israel, who are attacking me." 8: Ahaz also took the silver and gold that was found in the house of the LORD and in the treasures of the king's house, and sent a present to the king of Assyria. 9: And the king of Assyria hearkened to him; the king of Assyria marched up against Damascus, and took it, carrying its people captive to Kir, and he killed Rezin."
II Kings 16.

So here we see that also the inhabitants of the land of King Resin went into exile, and also his land was deserted, in the days of Achaz.

So God gave a sign to Achaz.

In the days of Achaz.

About 700 years before JC.

So this prophecy has no bearing what so ever on the messiah, and NOWHERE in this prophecy is spoken about a virgin.

These are only misconceptions of the NT.

However, the NT brings this prophecy to Achaz as a messianic prophecy, see Matthew 1 "21: she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins." 22: All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: 23: "Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel".

So what the NT does here, is taking a text which does not speak about the messiah, ripping it out of context, mistranslating it, (is says "young woman", and not "virgin") and then presenting it to us as a messianic prophecy.

So one of the foundations of the Christian religion, the virgin birth, is based upon a mistranslated text which is ripped out of context and does NOT speak about the messiah.

Look here for more reasons why nobody should believe in the New Testament: http://mountzion.notlong.com
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Elia

Well-known member
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Secondly, taken as just "young woman" is stupid. It is not a sign for a young woman to give birth, something that only happens probably every so many seconds in the world, all the time. But it is a sign for a virgin to give birth.

Bs"d

What kind of sign would a virgin birth 700 years after Achaz have been for Achaz??

What kind of a sign would a virgin birth have been for the people living in the time of JC?

They see a young woman getting pregnant, and giving birth to a son.
Hardly a world shaking event. Happens all the time.

But she was a virgin!

Well, how was the rest of the world to know??

When people see a young woman getting pregnant, everybody assumes she got pregnant the normal way, just like everybody else.

You can of course claim to still be a virgin, but who will take that claim seriously?

How is that claim to be verified?

When Mary was about to give birth, did the people of her village come to look between her legs, see that the hymen was still intact, and cry out: "A miracle! This virgin is about to give birth!"?

So what kind of sign is a virgin, giving birth??
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achduke

Active member
But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts 15:5 NKJV)

Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law” —to whom we gave no such commandment... (Acts 15:24 NKJV)​

You are missing the beginning of this paragraph.

Acts 15:1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

Circumcision does not save. Neither does following any other law. Circumcision is obedience just like all the other laws. You are not save from following the law but those that are saved are obedient. Once saved the spirit will lead you to obedience. Anything else is just self-righteousness.

Romans 2:25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised.

Romans 10:3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness.
 
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