ECT Finding context vs finding fav sound-bytes

Interplanner

New member
In John 13-17 there are three places where you could swoop in, grab a sound-byte and be off in to a fantasy world of prosperity gospel or something. One is 14:14. 'you may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.' By swooping in, most people will miss the 'in my name' part and tell their neighbors and friends about how God does anything you ask.

Just yesterday I ran into two of these by D'ists. D'ism is fraught with sound-byte thinking.

1, 'God is going to bring Israel back to the land (again)' because of Rom 9:4,5. So no matter what Paul says next, nor how little the land is mentioned by the apostles, it is pounding in these readers minds that those two verses mean God will put Israel back in its land in our future, and 'in the land' is not with faith in the Gospel (which is portable, global, and transcultural) but so that the Levitical worship system can operate once again. And this is not a delusion of Judaism to be wary of, it is really 1100 BC all over again, with a temple.

What Paul says next is that even though Israel has that advantage list, God's word has not failed. He had said the same thing, for a different reason, in 3:3. There 'not failed' meant that the soon coming judgement on Israel (the DofJ) was the resolution. Here, it is because not all of the natural children of Israel are those of faith, who are the ones who receive the promises. He shows this several times, and then he comes back to the same judgement theme that is in 3:3+--that some people respond to God and are blessed objects of glory, while others keeping fighting (Israel = to wrestle God) and are objects of wrath. The divide is not RACIAL it is FAITH or obedience. The faith group is therefore both Jew and Gentile 9:24 because it is not RACIAL, it is FAITH-determined).

Then 4 quotes from the OT support this.

Also, backing up a step: the glory of the renewed world--the NHNE-- of ch 8, when the earth itself will burst into joy because the children of God alone are its inhabitants, is no small blessing. Paul anguishes that they (his hard-hearted people) will not see this--without faith.

A restoration to the land is not in sight, not mentioned.

2, the same kind of thing happens in the 2nd half of Rom 9-11, about which D'ism is a total failure in interpretation. I'm referring of course to 'all Israel saved.' In Romans, it never has anything to do with a restored land and worship system for Judaism. Saved is the package of justification, transformation and future glorification of those who believe, whether Jew or Gentile, because it is not based on RACE but on FAITH.

'Saved' is also not RACIALLY divided, in 10:12. The division is FAITH. The idea that God will deal with people in the future on a basis other than Christ is totally foreign to the NT.

From v14 on, the mission of Israel (ideally theirs to complete) is the subject. It is why that string of questions is there. Paul wants all of them to be missionaries for it, but regrets that so few join him. Israel the race consists of the elect vs the hardened. Actually, all races are that way. But he would love it if they all believed and worked in the mission, 11:12.

None of this is about 'a restored land and worship system.'

That's why 'all Israel saved' is not about a restored land and worship system, and why the Isaiah quote at the end of 11 is historic--past tense. The elect are in Christ and there are Gentiles. The hardened are not in Christ and there are Gentiles there too. The true Israel will be saved. The "in this way" (in this manner) has been developed that way since 9:6 by Paul.

Only if you are pounded by popular D'ist eschatology books and look for sound-bytes and don't read at least 3 chapters at a time, would you think that at one future moment 'all Israel would be restored to their land and worship system.' And then there's the word 'all'... All the ones who died in the desert? All the ones who died when the city was captured by Babylon? All who died in the DofJ? What is all?

Sound-bytes often mean the complete opposite of context. Which is why the Bible has none.
 

patrick jane

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Sound-bytes often mean the complete opposite of context. Which is why the Bible has none.
If we look for sound bytes without reading at least 3 chapters at a time 10x, we will see that there are none. This is further proven in 9-6 and 13-2.
There are numerous passages in the OT that blow 2P2P out of the water.
 

SaulToPaul

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If we look for sound bytes without reading at least 3 chapters at a time 10x, we will see that there are none. This is further proven in 9-6 and 13-2.
There are numerous passages in the OT that blow 2P2P out of the water.

PJ the Great, one idea that I cannot escape from is how the old testament temple of God has three basic areas where different types of people "fit". And when I look at eternity I can see three different inheritances where different types of people will "fit".

The people and the Gentiles had an area in the temple- LAND in eternity
The priesthood had an area in the temple- THE CITY in eternity
The High Priest had an area in the temple, beyond the veil- THE HEAVENS in eternity

It would behoove us all to get with the program, God's program, and let him be true and every man a liar.
 

patrick jane

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PJ the Great, one idea that I cannot escape from is how the old testament temple of God has three basic areas where different types of people "fit". And when I look at eternity I can see three different inheritances where different types of people will "fit".

The people and the Gentiles had an area in the temple- LAND in eternity
The priesthood had an area in the temple- THE CITY in eternity
The High Priest had an area in the temple, beyond the veil- THE HEAVENS in eternity

It would behoove us all to get with the program, God's program, and let him be true and every man a liar.
Thanks STP, that clarifies a lot. There is a lot of truth in what you said - especially about the people AND the Gentiles.
 

SaulToPaul

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Thanks STP, that clarifies a lot. There is a lot of truth in what you said - especially about the people AND the Gentiles.

Yes sir.

The People (Israel) were mostly non-priests. It will be the same in eternity.
The Old Testament saints will be resurrected into the land. And the Gentiles will come serve the LORD on the earth. But the priests will be in the CITY from heaven (Peter and his boys).

:e4e:
 

john w

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In John 13-17 there are three places where you could swoop in, grab a sound-byte and be off in to a fantasy world of prosperity gospel or something. One is 14:14. 'you may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.' By swooping in, most people will miss the 'in my name' part and tell their neighbors and friends about how God does anything you ask.

Just yesterday I ran into two of these by D'ists. D'ism is fraught with sound-byte thinking.

1, 'God is going to bring Israel back to the land (again)' because of Rom 9:4,5. So no matter what Paul says next, nor how little the land is mentioned by the apostles, it is pounding in these readers minds that those two verses mean God will put Israel back in its land in our future, and 'in the land' is not with faith in the Gospel (which is portable, global, and transcultural) but so that the Levitical worship system can operate once again. And this is not a delusion of Judaism to be wary of, it is really 1100 BC all over again, with a temple.

What Paul says next is that even though Israel has that advantage list, God's word has not failed. He had said the same thing, for a different reason, in 3:3. There 'not failed' meant that the soon coming judgement on Israel (the DofJ) was the resolution. Here, it is because not all of the natural children of Israel are those of faith, who are the ones who receive the promises. He shows this several times, and then he comes back to the same judgement theme that is in 3:3+--that some people respond to God and are blessed objects of glory, while others keeping fighting (Israel = to wrestle God) and are objects of wrath. The divide is not RACIAL it is FAITH or obedience. The faith group is therefore both Jew and Gentile 9:24 because it is not RACIAL, it is FAITH-determined).

Then 4 quotes from the OT support this.

Also, backing up a step: the glory of the renewed world--the NHNE-- of ch 8, when the earth itself will burst into joy because the children of God alone are its inhabitants, is no small blessing. Paul anguishes that they (his hard-hearted people) will not see this--without faith.

A restoration to the land is not in sight, not mentioned.

2, the same kind of thing happens in the 2nd half of Rom 9-11, about which D'ism is a total failure in interpretation. I'm referring of course to 'all Israel saved.' In Romans, it never has anything to do with a restored land and worship system for Judaism. Saved is the package of justification, transformation and future glorification of those who believe, whether Jew or Gentile, because it is not based on RACE but on FAITH.

'Saved' is also not RACIALLY divided, in 10:12. The division is FAITH. The idea that God will deal with people in the future on a basis other than Christ is totally foreign to the NT.

From v14 on, the mission of Israel (ideally theirs to complete) is the subject. It is why that string of questions is there. Paul wants all of them to be missionaries for it, but regrets that so few join him. Israel the race consists of the elect vs the hardened. Actually, all races are that way. But he would love it if they all believed and worked in the mission, 11:12.

None of this is about 'a restored land and worship system.'

That's why 'all Israel saved' is not about a restored land and worship system, and why the Isaiah quote at the end of 11 is historic--past tense. The elect are in Christ and there are Gentiles. The hardened are not in Christ and there are Gentiles there too. The true Israel will be saved. The "in this way" (in this manner) has been developed that way since 9:6 by Paul.

Only if you are pounded by popular D'ist eschatology books and look for sound-bytes and don't read at least 3 chapters at a time, would you think that at one future moment 'all Israel would be restored to their land and worship system.' And then there's the word 'all'... All the ones who died in the desert? All the ones who died when the city was captured by Babylon? All who died in the DofJ? What is all?

Sound-bytes often mean the complete opposite of context. Which is why the Bible has none.

Knock it off.
1, you just put yourself personally on the same level as Scripture; that's putred.
2. -those people speaking had total and in-person knowledge of what they were talking about. We are on the internet and here to debate propositions. Accept that limitation or quit. Go enjoy your life calling people in person and to their face, fools, idiots, by these ridiculing words," D'ism is fraught with sound-byte thinking"-that's what you deserve.

You taught us that-we learned that from you.
 

Danoh

New member
Knock it off.
1, you just put yourself personally on the same level as Scripture; that's putred.
2. -those people speaking had total and in-person knowledge of what they were talking about. We are on the internet and here to debate propositions. Accept that limitation or quit. Go enjoy your life calling people in person and to their face, fools, idiots, by these ridiculing words," D'ism is fraught with sound-byte thinking"-that's what you deserve.

You taught us that-we learned that from you.

Matthew 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
 

Danoh

New member
Not sure how this cancels out the idea that the Body is far above all heavens.

The Mystery preached by Paul alone, is not typified within and or by OT Prophesied and thus, OT based...analogies.

I'Il this say too you, this brief moment I have your attention before you skirt off...

I welcome the iron sharpening iron of another Mad.

One would expect its great lack within Christendom; is the Mad's very lament.

So many not being Mad...

Problem is you apparantly put away your sword after only a round or two with me.

That neither challenges me further, nor you.

Just as insolent insistence on the part of some Mads also cuts both ways in this same, actually self-defeating way.

Where is the iron sharpenth iron where you run off after a post or two - even as you endlessly pound your head in post after post after post...against the wall of the countless non Mads who not only continually demonstrate they have no clue, but just as consistently demonstrate they have no interest in even getting a clue?

I post to you in both a spirit or heart attitude, as well as in light of...

2 Corinthians 1:24's "Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand."

The best towards you from, and in light of...that.
 

Interplanner

New member
Our inheritance, far above all heavens, can be typified in the OT.



The mystery is simply how the OT becomes true, not whether nor where nor to whom. Through the Gospel, not the Law. The lines by Paul about the mystery are written against Judaism, who mucked up how such promises or prophecy was to be fufilled.
 

Interplanner

New member
Our inheritance, far above all heavens, can be typified in the OT.



That's right. The mystery is simply how the OT becomes true, not whether nor where nor to whom. Through the Gospel, not the Law. The lines by Paul about the mystery are written against Judaism, who mucked up how such promises or prophecy was to.
 
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