Faith

Him

New member
In Romans 10:10 is the clause, "For with the heart man believeth unto (INTO in the Greek) righteousness" connected to verse s 6-8 where it states, Faith speaks on this wise, say not in our heart bring Christ down from above or up from the deep. But says, The Word is in our heart and in our mouth. That is the word of faith in which we preach.
And is this the faith that establishes the Law (3:31) and the faith that the Just live by? (1:17)
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
In Romans 10:10 is the clause, "For with the heart man believeth unto (INTO in the Greek) righteousness" connected to verse s 6-8 where it states, Faith speaks on this wise, say not in our heart bring Christ down from above or up from the deep. But says, The Word is in our heart and in our mouth. That is the word of faith in which we preach.
And is this the faith that establishes the Law (3:31) and the faith that the Just live by? (1:17)
Okay, first of all, the translation "UNTO" in Romans 10:10 is accurate. The Greek word "eis" does NOT necessarily mean "INTO," as your post implies. In fact, the KJV translates this word in a variety of ways depending on context.

Strong’s G1519 (EIS) is translated in the KJV as follows:
  • INTO (573 times)
  • TO (281 times)
  • UNTO (207 times)
  • FOR (140 times)
  • IN (138 times)
  • ON (58 times)
  • TOWARD (29 times)
  • AGAINST (26 times)
  • MISCELLANEOUS (322 times)

That last category, "MISCELLANEOUS," refers to 322 cases where the Greek word "eis" isn’t translated into a specific English word. Its meaning is absorbed into the sentence structure due to idiomatic or grammatical differences between Greek and English.

As for "INTO," I’ve only found TWO English Bibles that translate "eis" that way in Romans 10:10. They are the LITV (Literal Translation of the Holy Bible) and the MLV (Modern Literal Version). These are not real translations in the normal sense. They are hyper-literal tools made for direct Greek study, not for reading, teaching, or doctrinal instruction. They are not cited in mainstream commentaries, seminaries, or churches.

ALL other English translations, including the KJV, NKJV, NASB, ESV, NIV, CSB, NET, and even paraphrases like the NLT, translate "eis" in Romans 10:10 as either "UNTO," "RESULTING IN," "LEADING TO," or they absorb its directional force into the verb itself ("IS JUSTIFIED" or "IS SAVED").

So yes, "eis" is correctly and precisely translated as "UNTO" in Romans 10:10.

Romans 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.​



Further, and far more importantly...


ROMANS 10 DOES NOT TEACH LEGALISM!

The entire thrust of Paul's ministry, indeed the whole point of his apostleship, can be summarized in one simple exhortation...

DO NOT PLACE YOURSELF UNDER THE LAW.

Paul makes this point repeatedly and unambiguously:

Romans 4:5 "But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness."​
Romans 6:14 “For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.”​
Romans 6:15 “What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!”​
Romans 7:4 “Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.”​
Romans 7:6 “But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.”​
Romans 10:4 “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.”
Galatians 2:19 “For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.”​
Galatians 2:21 “I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”​
Galatians 3:10–13 “For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse… Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law.”​
Galatians 3:23–25 “But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law… Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ… But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.”​
Galatians 4:4–5 “God sent forth His Son… to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.”​
Galatians 4:21 “Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?”​
Galatians 5:2 "Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing."​
Galatians 5:18 “But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.”​
Philippians 3:9 “And be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.”​
Colossians 2:14 “[Christ] having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”​
I Timothy 1:9 “Knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate…”​
If I were to quote everything Paul says on this, I’d basically have to quote the entire book of Romans, Galatians, Philippians, Colossians, etc.

Paul’s message is consistent from beginning to end...

We are justified by faith, apart from the law.
We are not under the law.
We must not return to the law.

To do so is to hobble your Christian walk and live a life of unnecessary frustration, thinking you can live a life that is impossible to you.




"Things Which Gracious Souls Discover:

"To ‘hope to be better’ [hence acceptable] is to fail to see yourself in Christ only.

"To be disappointed with yourself, is to have believed in yourself.

"To be discouraged is unbelief,—as to God’s purpose and plan of blessing for you.

"To be proud, is to be blind! For we have no standing before God, in ourselves.

"The lack of Divine blessing, therefore, comes from unbelief, and not from failure of devotion…

"To preach devotion first, and blessing second, is to reverse God’s order, and preach law, not grace. The Law made man’s blessing depend on devotion; Grace confers undeserved, unconditional blessing: our devotion may follow, but does not always do so,—in proper measure."

Have we been afraid to really believe God? Have some even been afraid to allow others to really believe Him? We must never forget that "God’s ways are not always man’s ways. To some men, constant peril is the only spur to action, and many religions and psychologies are dependent on fear to keep their disciples in line. Fear, too, has a place in Christianity, but God has higher and more effective motivations than fear, and one of these is love. Often fear after a while produces only numbness, but love thrives on love. To promise a man the certainty of his destiny may seem, on the human level, like playing with fire; but this leaves God out of the picture. Those who have the deepest appreciation of grace do not continue in sin. Moreover, fear produces the obedience of slaves; love engenders the obedience of sons" (J. W. Sanderson, Jr.).​
 

Him

New member
Faith is a gift. If we don't have it, all we can do is ask for it.
Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
 

Him

New member
Okay, first of all, the translation "UNTO" in Romans 10:10 is accurate. The Greek word "eis" does NOT necessarily mean "INTO," as your post implies. In fact, the KJV translates this word in a variety of ways depending on context.

Strong’s G1519 (EIS) is translated in the KJV as follows:
  • INTO (573 times)
  • TO (281 times)
  • UNTO (207 times)
  • FOR (140 times)
  • IN (138 times)
  • ON (58 times)
  • TOWARD (29 times)
  • AGAINST (26 times)
  • MISCELLANEOUS (322 times)
How it translates and what it means is two different things. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned. And if we may, as the Greek reader would see, is what it would be.
As for "INTO," I’ve only found TWO English Bibles that translate "eis" that way in Romans 10:10. They are the LITV (Literal Translation of the Holy Bible) and the MLV (Modern Literal Version). These are not real translations in the normal sense. They are hyper-literal tools made for direct Greek study, not for reading, teaching, or doctrinal instruction. They are not cited in mainstream commentaries, seminaries, or churches.
Not a real translations? That is rather subjective. Many get lost in their many words my friend. In respect to this quote of yours and my own subjectivity. I could care less how it is translated by others.

ALL other English translations, including the KJV, NKJV, NASB, ESV, NIV, CSB, NET, and even paraphrases like the NLT, translate "eis" in Romans 10:10 as either "UNTO," "RESULTING IN," "LEADING TO," or they absorb its directional force into the verb itself ("IS JUSTIFIED" or "IS SAVED").

So yes, "eis" is correctly and precisely translated as "UNTO" in Romans 10:10.

Romans 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


Further, and far more importantly...


ROMANS 10 DOES NOT TEACH LEGALISM!
Rom 9:30 says, "What will we say then? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is OUT OF faith" For the Just shall live out of faith. (1:17) And this faith establishes the Law (3:23) This Faith speaks on this wise. say not in our heart, bring Christ down from above or up from the deep. But say the uttered Word, Christ is in our hearts and in our mouths. THAT IS the Word of Faith in which we are to preach. For God has said, His Law is in our hearts and in our mouths. For with the NEW the heart of the word through Christ a man believeth unto, into, results in, leads to righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (10:6-8,10)

As He said in Deut 29:1 These [are] the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab (before entering into the promised land), beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb. For the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. (Deut 30:6) So Hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, [and] if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it [is] not hidden from thee, neither [is] it far off. It [is] not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither [is] it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word [is] very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. (Deut 30:10-14) This the faith in which we preach. For the life we now live in the flesh we live through the FAITH OF the Son of God who gave Himself for us. Behold, a new creature. All is new and of God. Begotten by the Word of truth. Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of this engrafted word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the engrafted word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. That new creation in Christ Jesus with the engrafted word, the word in His heart and mouth. The Law in His heart and mind. This is the Law that is of Liberty. (Jam 1:18-25) The Word manifested in the flesh, our flesh through Christ Jesus. For we who have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. (Gal 3:27) That He be the first among many brethren. (Rom 8:29) For Christ is the end of the written Law on paper and stone for righteousness for all that believe. Declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but fleshly tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency [is] of God (2 Cor 3:3-5) For it is in Him we Live, move and have our being. It is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. (Phil 2:13)
Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (2Cor 5:17-21)
 
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Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
How it translates and what it means is two different things.
Nope!

Words mean things! Concepts are given names. Those names are what words are.

"unto" names one concept, "into" names another concept. The two are not synonyms and there is no way that the context of Romans 10:5 supports "into" as a proper English translation. It is "unto" - period.

Spiritual things are spiritually discerned. And if we may, as the Greek reader would see, is what it would be.
This sentence makes no sense.

Did you mean to say that the Greek reader would see "into" rather than "unto"?

If so, my response would be, "Saying it doesn't make it so."

There seems to be no evidence that your desired translation is superior in anyway to the way that practically every bible in existence renders the passage.

Not a real translations? That is rather subjective.
It isn't subjective at all. The producers of those "translations" were making no attempt to translate into English in the way English is normally read or spoken or even understood. They are not translations in the normal sense of the word.

Many get lost in their many words my friend.
Meaning you didn't read what I wrote or that you don't care to address it.

In respect to this quote of yours and my own subjectivity. I could care less how it is translated by others.
That's a BIG problem!

That isn't just a big problem, that is a catastrophic attitude that can only end in disaster, both doctrinally and spiritually.

Your rendering of Romans 10:5 is false - period. NO ONE but you cares at all about YOUR translation of it.
Big claims demand big evidence. You say that dozens of English translations and the hundreds of Greek scholars involved in producing those translations are wrong and that you are right. Well, prove it. You showing up to make the claim does nothing whatsoever to establish it as valid.


Rom 9:30 says, "What will we say then? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is OUT OF faith" For the Just shall live out of faith. (1:17) And this faith establishes the Law (3:23) This Faith speaks on this wise. say not in our heart, bring Christ down from above or up from the deep. But say the uttered Word, Christ is in our hearts and in our mouths. THAT IS the Word of Faith in which we are to preach. For God has said, His Law is in our hearts and in our mouths. For with the NEW the heart of the word through Christ a man believeth unto, into, results in, leads to righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (10:6-8,10)

As He said in Deut 29:1 These [are] the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab (before entering into the promised land), beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb. For the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. (Deut 30:6) So Hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, [and] if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it [is] not hidden from thee, neither [is] it far off. It [is] not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither [is] it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word [is] very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. (Deut 30:10-14) This the faith in which we preach. For the life we now live in the flesh we live through the FAITH OF the Son of God who gave Himself for us. Behold, a new creature. All is new and of God. Begotten by the Word of truth. Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of this engrafted word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the engrafted word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. That new creation in Christ Jesus with the engrafted word, the word in His heart and mouth. The Law in His heart and mind. This is the Law that is of Liberty. (Jam 1:18-25) The Word manifested in the flesh, our flesh through Christ Jesus. For we who have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. (Gal 3:27) That He be the first among many brethren. (Rom 8:29) For Christ is the end of the written Law on paper and stone for righteousness for all that believe. Declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but fleshly tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency [is] of God (2 Cor 3:3-5) For it is in Him we Live, move and have our being. It is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. (Phil 2:13)
Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (2Cor 5:17-21)
Okay, so we're confronted here with a wall of Scripture snippets strung together without a clear argument. I think I get the gist of it...

You're flipping Paul’s entire point in Romans 10 on its head. He cites Deuteronomy not to reintroduce law-keeping, but to show that righteousness is by faith, not by the works of the law. The word is near, not so you can do it to be justified, but so you can believe it. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness. You’re conflating justification and sanctification, fruit and root, cause and effect. Yes, the law is written on the heart of the believer, but that is the result of salvation, not the means of attaining it or keeping it. Romans 10 is not about doing the law by faith; it’s about being made righteous by faith apart from the law. You’re dressing legalism in spiritual language and calling it grace. It’s not.

If this doctrine were correct, there'd have been no need for the Apostle Paul to begin with. Jesus had twelve apostles already that He personally trained sent out into "all the nations,...teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you". If Paul was just out teaching law-keeping for salvation, Peter, James and John wouldn't have needed Paul's help. Paul was raised up to reveal something different, not a reiteration of law through faith, but a gospel of righteousness apart from the law, through faith in Christ alone.

“Yet the law is not of faith” - Galatians 3:12
 
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