ECT Faith + Obedience = Salvation?

[Cross Reference]

We need to know the wolves in sheep's clothing. False brethren need to be outed.

How ‘bout the one who is your friend and professes Christ but examples otherwise?

A person is saved or they aren't. We only wait for the redemption of our body.

In presumption no doubt, if there is no desire to seek after Him for rectification in our lives; to be conformed to His image the new birth from above can only enable us to do.

Made up.

You mean Paul made it all up when he wrote this:

“18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? Romans 7:18-24 (KJV) . . And Rom.8:1 was his victory!

Temptations are for testing one's allegiance to God. Jesus demonstrated that to be true. Satan is allowed to tempt us to reveal to us that which he still owns in us God wants overcome. In Jesus, he found nothing to censor, nothing to "rectify", nothing needed for Jesus to repent of.. What does he find in me? . . . in you? if that one understands what the issues are to have cultivated his love TO God sufficient for overcoming the "law" of his flesh, victory will be his.

The results of an active imagination.

Should we suppose that is what Jesus exampled to us when in His wilderness experience dealing with the devil in His time of temptation?

What is needed for the "overcoming"?

Faith in the One who overcame the world.

And then what? Keep on living like the world or "not be a part of it"? That certainly would leave a void in our lives, wouldn't it?

And faith for what, something magical to happen for me to be delivered; released from that specific temptation? You don't mention "overcoming". Why?

Because I rest in the One who overcame.
Our Lord paid the price.

Indeed but, what is He getting for His “money” when He gets us and we aren’t prepared to be with Him in that day? You would do well to Matt 24 again, for the first time, to understand Jesus is speaking to His Disciples when giving His warning/caution.

Question: Who did Jesus set free from the grave except those who were prepared IN Him but their fallen condition/contaminated Adamic blood imprisoned them?

Peter looked at his circumstances instead of trusting the Lord.

YES! He got distracted away from Jesus by the LAW of his flesh Paul warns us of in Rom 7 which quickly became the obstacle Peter could not, of himself, OVERCOME!

Paul "overcame" by Romans 8:1 KJV.

You'd do well to stop doubting what the Lord did for you on the cross and keep your eye fixed on Him.

Doubt??! I rejoice!! I know who and what I am and without Jesus IN my life revealing to me the issues I that I need to repent of, my life would be lived a lie. I don’t assume to be anything IN Him except a new "born" saint learning how to be faithful both in and to Christ Jesus. I know that in the process of learning to be a son, I am “being saved” unto the Father to "know" Him as one consumed by Him per John 17 KJV..

My goodness! The Holy Spirit gives us understanding through the Scripture.

When was the Holy Spirit given as a Tutor? What is needed for Him to be Tutor? When were the scriptures made available as a text book?

OMT: I will assume you know there are only 3 manifestations of the Holy Spirit that are foundational to the one who claims to be a disciple of Christ Jesus; those only who are able to call Him, “Lord”?

I don't recite the Lord's prayer...He was giving an example of how to pray.

I didn’t believe you could recite it without a spiritual conflict.. I asked for that reason that you might recognize your problem with "connecting the dots".

 

[Cross Reference]

April 29th

The graciousness of uncertainty

"It doth not yet appear what we shall be". 1 John 3:2.

Naturally, we are inclined to be so mathematical and calculating that we look upon uncertainty as a bad thing. We imagine that we have to reach some end, but that is not the nature of spiritual life. The nature of spiritual life is that we are certain in our uncertainty, consequently we do not make our nests anywhere. Common sense says—‘Well, supposing I were in that condition …’ We cannot suppose ourselves in any condition we have never been in.

Certainty is the mark of the commonsense life: gracious uncertainty is the mark of the spiritual life. To be certain of God means that we are uncertain in all our ways, we do not know what a day may bring forth. This is generally said with a sigh of sadness; it should be rather an expression of breathless expectation. We are uncertain of the next step, but we are certain of God. Immediately we abandon to God, and do the duty that lies nearest, He packs our life with surprises all the time. When we become advocates of a creed, something dies; we do not believe God, we only believe our belief about Him. Jesus said “Except ye … become as little children.” Spiritual life is the life of a child. We are not uncertain of God, but uncertain of what He is going to do next. If we are only certain in our beliefs, we get dignified and severe and have the ban of finality about our views; but when we are rightly related to God, life is full of spontaneous, joyful uncertainty and expectancy.

“Believe also in Me,” said Jesus, not—‘Believe certain things about Me.’ Leave the whole thing to Him, it is gloriously uncertain how He will come in, but He will come. Remain loyal to Him.

Oswald Chambers

 

[Cross Reference]

Tell us CR... what does Salvation cost a man?

[MENTION=13491]Cross Reference[/MENTION]

Editing in...

Let's see what Oswald chambers has to say on the matter...

​

Quoted from here... Link to Utmost.Org

Yup

Editing in more quotation from Mr. Chambers

"When I turn to God and by belief accept what God reveals, the miraculous atonement by the Cross of Christ instantly places me into a right relationship with God. And as a result of the supernatural miracle of God’s grace I stand justified, not because I am sorry for my sin, or because I have repented, but because of what Jesus has done. "

From the first sentence we can understand Chambers is speaking of the "revealed actuality" of redemption and then begins to link man's salvation to it.

Legally speaking it is as you believe. However, there is a very prime importance that nothing of a Spiritual Nature can happen for God and man until the legal issue is resolved.

Question: Do you/can you believe for such a "Spiritual" issue as something you long for?

 

[Interplanner]

From the first sentence we can understand Chambers is speaking of the "revealed actuality" of redemption to then begins to link man's salvation to it.

Legally speaking it is as you believe. However, there is a very prime importance that nothing of a Spiritual Nature can happen for God and man until the legal issue is resolved.

Question: Do you/can you believe for such a "Spiritual" issue as something you long for?

It is a good treatment until the last line, the question. I have no idea what you are asking nor why.

 

[dodge]

Jerry Shugart;5000152]We receive the revelation of God through His supernatural gospel which comes in power, in assurance, and in the Holy Spirit (1 Thess.1:5). For those who do not resist that Spirit the Lord gives us an understanding of these things (1 Jn.5:20) and by this understanding we receive the evidence of things not seen. However, as you can see in many places the Apostle Paul goes into detail about these things, giving us even more evidence that these things are true.

Jerry, the point is a person does not have to have a high IQ to be saved.

Believe it not we have to use our brains in order to understand what Paul and the other writers of the Bible say. We have to "think" about what is revealed in the Bible. That is why Paul "reasoned" out of the Scriptures when he preached.

I believe spiritual belief goes past intellect IT TAKES FAITH not brains.

However, there are some people who are so lazy they let other people do their thinking for them. These people end up putting more faith in what some men say about the Scriptures than they do in what the Scriptures actually say.

Bingo ! That is exactly how MAD was born.

 

[Interplanner]

Not to change the topic too much from 'faith + obedience' but I have come to the conclusion that Paul's 'reasoning from the scriptures' at synagogues was to show them that a passage would be fulfilled in Christ, not in its normal sense.

You find this in Acts 13, and in the general description in 18 that he was reasoning that Jesus was the Christ from a tanakh passage. That is interesting that he would try to do so, but then also say that if it stays hidden from them, it is due to the veil.

(to Jerry: btw, why would Paul reason that Jesus was the Christ here (this far into his ministry years) if a 2nd gospel had now come, ie, that Christ was our righteous and atoning sacrifice? Hmmm. Not to much to that 'gospel of Jesus as Christ' theory. )

 

[Cross Reference]

Tell us CR... what does Salvation cost a man?

As God, as Father, purposed it:

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; . . . . . . " John 17:21-23 (KJV)


Let's see what Oswald chambers has to say on the matter...

Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Chambers:

"The salvation that comes from God is not based on human logic, but on the sacrificial death of Jesus. We can be born again solely because of the atonement of our Lord. Sinful men and women can be changed into new creations, not through their repentance or their belief, but through the wonderful work of God in Christ Jesus which preceded all of our experience (see 2 Corinthians 5:17-19). The unconquerable safety of justification and sanctification is God Himself. We do not have to accomplish these things ourselves— they have been accomplished through the atonement of the Cross of Christ. The supernatural becomes natural to us through the miracle of God, and there is the realization of what Jesus Christ has already done— “It is finished!”" (John 19:30).

Chambers is speaking of 3 three effects of the cross in this writing. Salvation, legal justification, which based upon the sacrificial death of Jesus which procured for mankind by redemption, the new foundation for a new creation. "Believe and thou shalt be saved" and begin to build. Beyond that is God providinng the "uncoquerable safety" of His Life by the new birth which seals one's 'DNA' to Him. The supernatural becomes natural through the miracle of God by Jesus Christ which produces the "It is Finished" in us though we are still babes. In this there no room for "nominalism". John 17:3 must become a way of life to that one sincere in faith in Christ Jesus tha His faith become an "actuality" for our lives..

 

[Interplanner]

Tell us CR... what does Salvation cost a man?

As God, as Father, purposed it:

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; . . . . . . " John 17:21-23 (KJV)


Let's see what Oswald chambers has to say on the matter...

Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Chambers:

"The salvation that comes from God is not based on human logic, but on the sacrificial death of Jesus. We can be born again solely because of the atonement of our Lord. Sinful men and women can be changed into new creations, not through their repentance or their belief, but through the wonderful work of God in Christ Jesus which preceded all of our experience (see 2 Corinthians 5:17-19). The unconquerable safety of justification and sanctification is God Himself. We do not have to accomplish these things ourselves— they have been accomplished through the atonement of the Cross of Christ. The supernatural becomes natural to us through the miracle of God, and there is the realization of what Jesus Christ has already done— “It is finished!”" (John 19:30).

Chambers is speaking of 3 three effects of the cross in this writing. Salvation, legal justification, which based upon the sacrificial death of Jesus which procured for mankind by redemption, the new foundation for a new creation. "Believe and thou shalt be saved" and begin to build. Beyond that is God providinng the "uncoquerable safety" of His Life by the new birth which seals one's 'DNA' to Him. The supernatural becomes natural through the miracle of God by Jesus Christ which produces the "It is Finished" in us though we are still babes. In this there no room for "nominalism". John 17:3 must become a way of life to that one sincere in faith in Christ Jesus tha His faith become an "actuality" for our lives..

What is the 'it is finished' in us? 'It is finished' = the atonement was accomplished. We are not even trying to do that again.

There is a supernatural side to our sanctification, but we also have to work on it, work it out in reverence for God, Phil 2.

 

[Nanja]

what religionist dont realize is the Faith/Faithfulness and Obedience of Jesus Christ effects the Salvation of the many !

Exactly! Salvation is by the Faith/Faithfulness and Obedience of Christ alone!

John 17:2
As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

All of the Many that the Father has given to His Son Eph. 1:4-11, to be Covenant Head and Surety for from everlasting Is. 42:6; Heb. 7:22, they are altogether declared Righteous in God's sight by His Perfect Obedience in His Life and Death on their behalf! So for all these Election of Grace, the Righteousness of the Law that God demanded of man, was fulfilled perfectly in Christ!

Rom. 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Rom. 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Gal. 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[Danoh]

What scriptures??

Acts 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

 

[Interplanner]

Exactly! Salvation is by the Faith/Faithfulness and Obedience of Christ alone!

John 17:2
As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

All of the Many that the Father has given to His Son Eph. 1:4-11, to be Covenant Head and Surety for from everlasting Is. 42:6; Heb. 7:22, they are altogether declared Righteous in God's sight by His Perfect Obedience in His Life and Death on their behalf! So for all these Election of Grace, the Righteousness of the Law that God demanded of man, was fulfilled perfectly in Christ!

Rom. 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Rom. 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Gal. 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

'Pistis' in those Galatian verses are Christ's faithful obedience to God, his loyalty to God in all things. It is not human faith in Christ. Grammar matters again.

 

[Danoh]

'Pistis' in those Galatian verses are Christ's faithful obedience to God, his loyalty to God in all things. It is not human faith in Christ. Grammar matters again.

Yep :thumb:

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

 

[Nanja]

'Pistis' in those Galatian verses are Christ's faithful obedience to God, his loyalty to God in all things. It is not human faith in Christ. Grammar matters again.

Explain your understanding of Rom. 5:19.

 

[Interplanner]

Both Adam and Christ were representatives for us. Christ's actions in that position 'make many righteous.' Btw, 'make' in this case is not meant to break the sense of 'credit/account' them righteous, which is all through Romans. They are not perfect in all actions from the moment of being saved on. It means that the debt of sin has been covered.

 

[Cross Reference]

Exactly! Salvation is by the Faith/Faithfulness and Obedience of Christ alone!

Do you go to church? Why?

 

[Danoh]

Explain your understanding of Rom. 5:19.

Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry, the point is a person does not have to have a high IQ to be saved.

I never said that! In order to reason out of the Scriptures all a person needs is common sense, not a high IQ.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

What is needed for the "overcoming"?

"For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith" (1 Jn.5:4).​

 

[dodge]

I never said that! In order to reason out of the Scriptures all a person needs is common sense, not a high IQ.

Again wrong ! Common sense tells me no one can walk on water or heal the diseased, Jerry it takes the word of God and faith i.e. belief.

 

[Cross Reference]

"For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith" (1 Jn.5:4).​

More words. What does all that mean given it is you/I who needs to overcome?