Can you tell me the number of the post please?
Anytime you say that Jesus' death and resurrection were not like ours, you run great risk of spouting false doctrine. He was the "firstborn from the dead" (Col 1:18) and the "firstfruits of them that slept" (1Cor 15:20), meaning that we will follow in His resurrection footsteps.
I agree Jesus was the first born from the dead ... I believe he provided the WAY h
aving the power, the authority to judge and the method for total healing by which his followers could/would follow him into his kingdom.
Afterall, Jesus was God providing the sacrifice and thus establishing The WAY for us to follow him into his kingdom. I don't think that means that our Lord could not have done more works after he was slain to procure the WAY for us to be 'saved.' During the time before the tomb was opened Jesus experienced a few things because though physically dead he was spiritually alive.
There is something called the "The lamb." The Lamb was not the future glorified Savior, but was the mortal sacrificial promised one who was God.
- I don't believe that Jesus, being the spiritual God, whom we know as The Word of God, ceased to exist when he suffered a physical death. I figure the one and only eternal God the Spirit may have "tasted physical death" with its pain and suffering through the death of the mortal body of Jesus. I believe scripture informs us that our risen Lord Jesus took that sacrificed mortal Lamb to at least two places during the days between his death and before the stone was rolled away.
- He may have gone first to the Father to present the body himself as the sacrificed lamb unto the heavenly enthroned Father LORD God. Rev. 5:9 Rev 15 EX 15 Rev 15.Heb 9:12
The book of
Revelation 1-3 begins with messages to the seven churches, and
then in chapter 4 the writer describes a period of time of heavenly worship witnessed by John the writer when he was granted spiritual passage into a heavenly throne room.
There he saw 24 elders seated in chairs with crowns upon their heads along with a number of other sentient individuals as well. All worshiping the LORD God Almighty. On the throne
is THE ONE GOD, who was able to appear to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses to name a few. He sat enthroned as the LORD God Almighty.
Chapter 5 begins to talk about The LAMB -also referred to as
The LION of Judah and the Root of David. Of course believers should know that the Lamb was Jesus, the son of God, who was also the son of man who definitely died ... physically.
Revelation 5:6 begins to describe the identity of the Lamb.
My comments inserted like this.
6 And I beheld, and , lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood
a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he
being the sacrificed Lamb came and took the book out of the right hand of him
who was the LORD God Almighty that sat upon the throne.
8 And when he
the Lamb had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours
fragrances, which are the prayers of saints.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou
oh Lamb art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for
thou wast slain, and hast
redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.
- Now, from the Book of Revelation some might suggest that The Lamb which was sacrificed seems to not have shown up in heaven until the times of the Book of Revelation when he began opening the seals ... for Rev. 6 begins to talk about his doing just that ...
- But somehow I believe Jesus said what he meant in John 20:17 when he told Mary, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father." I believe Jesus was headed from earth to a heavenly realm to present himself/his body to the LORD God Almighty as the Lamb ... and victorious God and Savior. Psalm 82:8 prophesies of Him ... when the Father said: "Arise O God and inherit the nations."
- Now, did Jesus go to hell before he went to the throne room or did he go there afterwards? I'm not sure, but he went there. He went into hell to do this:
I Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ
who becane the sacrificed Lamb also hath once suffered for
man's sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God,
being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19
The Spirit By which also
he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.
20
The still living self-aware spirits which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
- Now, what ever visible body Jesus had in heaven or in hell is not the end of his transformation. There was a third body. Jesus came back to earth for 40 days appearing to many and doing many things. This body looked like a regular human body and it bore the scars of the crucifixion and the plunge of the sword. Except it could walk through walls and doors and appear and disappear. These verses are listed as places to read about those experiences ... I haven't check them at the moment: Acts 1:1-3; Luke 24:13-35,39; John 21:12-13; John 20:27
- But things are not over at this point for our Lord Jesus. He has another body awaiting him. Jesus prayed a prayer when he made a requestion of The LORD God Almighty/the Father. And I believe the LORD Father will or has honored that request.
John 17:4-5 I
as the Lamb to be sacrificed have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And
now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self
with the GLORY which I had which I shared with thee before the world was.
- Well, just wow! You need to go back to the OT to see accounts of those having dreams and visions to know what God's GLORY looked like.
- The Father LORD and the Word shared that image of Glory before the world was. I happen to believe that when all is said and done, the saints will see the Father LORD and our Lord Jesus equally glorified visually. Revelation gives us clues of how their glorious presence will be.
Rev. 21:9-11 having the glory of God
the new Jerusalem will be like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; Rev. 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for
the glory of God did lighten it, AND the Lamb is also the light thereof. Rev. 22:3-5 And in the new Jerusalem you will find
the throne of God and the throne of the Lamb ... but
the throne of God AND of the Lamb shall be in it ... they
the servants of God shall see his face ... there shall be no night for the LORD God giveth them light; and
they LORD God and his glorified Lord Son shall reign for ever and ever.
Now, here is where our Lord Jesus introduces us to the glorious Father:
I Tim 6:14,15,16 Read it for yourself. We, as saints, will be able to behold the glorious presence of the LORD Father in all his glory and see our Lord with him. I happen to believe they will look alike and be equally glorified because: 1.) the Father has loved his Son and given all things unto Him. 2.) God created only one image to represent Him as the ONE God and He is not limited as is mankind. He can use his bodily form repeatedly and even in multiples.
Why do you think "His dead body was resurrected", but "he" wasn't?
Because J
esus was The WORD, who was with God and was God. It was
God who resurrected the mortal body of the Son ... now
if God died when the body of the promised Christ died ... then
how could a dead God raise a dead body?
God IS LIFE eternal. Can eternal LIFE die? Jesus was God in flesh as his own begotten Son. Maybe this will help you to see how
they are ONE while working as God but known to us as two individuals:
Isaiah 43:11
I God the Spirit, even
I, Am,
the LORD who appeared in the OT; beside
me who is God and Lord there is no Savior -
our Lord Jesus.
Why do you put the word "spiritual" before "WORD"? Was He not "the WORD" who became flesh and dwelt among us?
Love your questions.
Because the WORD existed from the beginning ... before The Son was manifested in flesh. When ever you read in Gen. 1, "And God SAID" ...
that was The audible WORD of God. HE existed even before there was a visible image for God's personal use. However, when an image was created, then the
Spiritual God spoke his WORD through the mouth of the LORD Father. When Jesus was manifested as the begotten mortal Son,
John 1:18, then God spoke His words through the mouth of our Savior. Jesus once said something like this: I only speak what I hear from the Father. The words that came out of Jesus's mouth were the WORD of God and since I consider God to be a Spirit then I consider them to be spiritual.
If He really was human, then His death was really like human death. It wasn't just a body, but He took on human form...FOREVER.
A form is a body ... but not a spirit. God took on a human form/body to be our Savior.
Isaiah 43:11
God's Spirit? Do you mean the Holy Spirit? Nobody said the Holy Spirit died.
Correct ... certainly not me. There is God the Spirit ... I perceive the Holy Spirit to be Jesus in us or God in us... but I also know that God can impart things from his spiritual essence in measures. Jesus was the only one having the Spirit without measure... for he was God after all.
But Jesus, in dying became a life-giving spirit. If He didn't die, then He didn't rise from the dead. You can't make some convenient distinction between Jesus and His body once He became human just to fit your proposed theology.
Yes, Jesus became a life giving spirit. That is his, being God, gift to us. It is in us by measure for we are not God nor ever will be equal to God. Only Jesus can claim that.
If God was able to resurrect the mortal body that you say was NOT Jesus, why do we need to have our mortal bodies resurrected? What use is it? Yet that's what the bible says will happen.
The one we know as Jesus the Son of Mary was
spirit and body. Genesis 2 tells us that
Male/Female was not a complete soul until their spiritual essence was associated with a created physical body.
Do you know that God the Spirit became a soul? Who is this God who can be spirit and also be associated with a body as was Adam?
Answer: Read Leviticus 26:11-13 God the Spirit became The LORD God Almighty! Soul is the same word used for the manifestation of Adam and again for the manifestation of the visible LORD God.
It wasn't untouchable. Other translations say "stop clinging to me", indicating that Mary was already touching Him.
I have nothing against the word clinging ... but that body had died and had lain in the tomb for around three days. That is a logical reason for her not to touch or cling to that tortured body. It is obvious that it was of flesh at that point.
Jesus did supernatural things with His body before His Resurrection, like walking on water.
Sure he did. He was God. In fact, I remember some miracles he did which revealed what was done on the 7th day of creation when Adam was manifested. He gave life to created things. He molded physical functioning eyeballs for a man who had none since birth. He wrote on a stone floor in the temple area with his finger ... being the finger of God so to speak.
Scripture doesn't help you here. There's no indication that it will be a different body.
I probably should have said a third body not a fourth body. As I've already described above. Jesus had a mortal body. Then he had a body in which he came back to Earth to appear for 40 days and the third will be the one the Father gives him - like the one he had with the Father before the world was. Did I skip one????
Yes, that tells us He was with the Father before, in glory, and will be with Him again in glory, but now in Human flesh.
Lord Jesus is no longer in human flesh. That part of his work is done. Jesus now has a super natural body. Now, I admit I'm not sure if he has the same one he had which walked through walls with nail prints in his hand ... He said he would return the like manner he ascended into heaven. Does that only mean coming in a cloud ... or could it include bearing the same super-natural presence ????????????? I am speculating that he may not receive the full glory like the Father's until death and hell are destroyed and the Lake of fire finalizes things. ????????????????? But I believe he will get his request from the Father.
Or, there's nothing different about how they behave--same goals, same thoughts, same morality, etc. They can't be the same person, because they communicate with each other. Yet they are the one God.
Yes, they are the ONE God ... spiritually. They are known individually because of their missions, when they worked and how they worked and in what form they appeared. God can do things impossible for us. We can only be one person forever. God is not limited to our bounds. He can be three LORDS if he chooses and each can be allowed freewill to make choices. Even our Christ had that freewill but he chose to obey looking forward to what lay ahead.
But you should suspect and question such insight, rather than take courage from it.
Again, question your speculations and keep questioning them, lest they lead you astray
Thank you for your advice. It is good... but so far I see what I see. If you are confident I am wrong then prove me wrong ... please try. I enjoyed tonight responding ... but, whew, so many questions to answer.
