ECT Examine yourself whether you are in the Faith. 2 Corinthians 13:5

[Lon]

I observed another imature, rude, childish response on TOL. "Imature" and "childish" are synonymous, but I'm trying to
ensure that the perpetrator of this immaturity understands the Biblical term and rightly hones in on self-introspection from a scripture perspective
(should they happen to read it).
Is he/she a Christian? Not for me to determine.

He/she needs to self-examine. 2 Corinthians 13:5

Let's look at scriptures (this will be a long post, necessarily):

1 Corinthians deals primarily with 'friction in the body.' It is thus, nearly specific and addressed to churches and websites with
contention. It can be seen to address the "smack" of truth. "Faithful" aren't wounds, but the wounds "of a friend." Proverbs 27:6

1 Corinthians 13 talks about love specifically because it had to. The Corinthians were petty, arrogant, rude, and immaturely inappropriate.
How do we know? Because Paul is explaining to them in detail how to love and calling out this behavior in this book.

After explaining what "love" is, given as if every believer should know it is a virtue to be esteemed and emulated without
controversy, it goes on to say:
1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.
11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
Verses 9&12 address a misconception about logic and knowledge: It is partial at best, not complete in logic or conception and as such, "it will pass."
Romans 12:3

2 Corinthians 13:5 calls for self-examination, specifically "to see if you are in the faith."
2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!
2Co 13:6 I hope you will find out that we have not failed the test.
2Co 13:7 But we pray to God that you may not do wrong—not that we may appear to have met the test, but that you may do what is right, though we may seem to have failed.
2Co 13:8 For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth.
2Co 13:9 For we are glad when we are weak and you are strong. Your restoration is what we pray for.
2Co 13:10 For this reason I write these things while I am away from you, that when I come I may not have to be severe in my use of the authority that the Lord has given me for building up and not for tearing down.
2Co 13:11 Finally, brothers, rejoice. Aim for restoration, comfort one another, agree with one another, live in peace; and the God of love and peace will be with you.
2Co 13:12 Greet one another with a holy kiss.

It isn't about works, it is about what Christ is doing in you, 'if' He is in you/me.
Paul lays out the clarity in Ephesians 2:8-10. Grace, not works BUT verse 10 says we are "His workmanship." That means, if you are a Christian, you 'should' be
maturing in Christ. A fruitful life, not for others inspection, but self-inspection, godliness should be occuring in your life.

If you are full of spite and malice, you might well reflect on the above passage where Paul calls for godly greeting and interaction during debate and conversation.
Paul also calls for rebuke, but it is inordinate among his other calls and only after a history with a person to establish their
obstinancy and false religion in my estimation. In that, others in the body should agree with you, remember Paul is writing to 'churches' not as much individuals.
We are a body. A concerted action/effort should exemplify the direction. This post and thread is not about 'how' to correct another so much
as examining one'self in Christ, which Paul calls us to do in obedience and self-reflection. If you are in Christ, there should be a mark of
maturity and your words 'should' be becoming, at least, seasoned with salt if you are not there already.

I am not a fruit inspector BUT I know when I don't want to converse with the childish one who is stubbornly clinging to his/her childish ways. It is not a call on his/her
salvation, but is certainly a call for him/her to self examine motivations and own poor behavior.

As a Christian, we long for perfection thus desire godliness in our thoughts, actions, and speech. As believers we 'want' to be like Christ, not imaturely self-willed.

Colossians 4:3 At the same time, pray also for us, that God may open to us a door for the word, to declare the mystery of Christ, on account of which I am in prison—
Colossians that I may make it clear, which is how I ought to speak.
Colossians Walk in wisdom toward outsiders, making the best use of the time.
Colossians Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person.

 

[Nick M]

If they are Christian is for you to determine. How are you to defend from the wolves in sheep's clothing as you are told to do, if you don't judge who is a wolf?

 

[Lon]

If they are Christian is for you to determine. How are you to defend from the wolves in sheep's clothing as you are told to do, if you don't judge who is a wolf?

Several things: first, you are correct . It is more of a body ministry than an individual one but I do recognize it is often up to individuals to determine that. Paul certainly opposed Peter to his face, and called wolves out in the open for scriptural posterity. I am not meaning that kind of judgment, but rather I'm saying salvation is a personal inspection because you or I can't save them:
Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

It is a truth that fits both Jew and gentile then and now when there is neither. I 'think' Paul calling for self-examination must have carried the idea that the godless were incapable, but it was a warning that it might save some perhaps, to allow them to come to terms with themselves not being Christ Jesus our Lord's workmanship.

Thanks for the clarifying question, Nick. You are correct with that particular judgment and I appreciate your making that that sure and understood.


With some, their walk is vague and difficult because of their Christian immaturity or difficult hurdle. With others, they are clearly as you say. 1 Corinthians 5:5
In Him,

-Lon

 

[Omniskeptical]

Several things: first, you are correct . It is more of a body ministry than an individual one but I do recognize it is often up to individuals to determine that. Paul certainly opposed Peter to his face, and called wolves out in the open for scriptural posterity. I am not meaning that kind of judgment, but rather I'm saying salvation is a personal inspection because you or I can't save them:
Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Clearly they were lying about the nature and goodness of their deeds. Lon, they were rejected because of bad karma, not good karma.

 

[Danoh]

When you think on it, Lon; in Paul's words there to the Corinthians, he is dealing with the exact same nonsense not only on their part with their own, but also against Paul.

Two thousand years later, and here Believers are, claiming this or that liberty, all the while clearly straightened in their own selves when dealing with their own.

Just goes to show why Christ had to die.

Because we as some supposed higher species can be just as bad off as all the other species; just as determined to repeat the same old definition of insanity - repeating what is clearly not going to lead to a solution.

In this, we each kind of not only crucify the Lord all over again, but each time we deny His victory's power to solve for our nonsense with one another but for our believing our flesh's lie and its' purported solutions each time we meet with difference and or conflict with and or from, one another.

That being the reality, we are left with the only solution left during such moments - reminding ourselves "so and so stands by faith" - by what Another did in their stead. That will have to suffice.

It can be a bitter pill to swallow. But its bitter taste is only seemingly so. The flesh once more vomiting up its bile.

This is exactly why handling differences must not be allowed to be based on life experiences, nor on personal feelings, for or against, and all the rest of those "conformed unto this world" supposed "answers."

Rather, why they must; they have to be based on faith: on 'this is what the Book says about what I am to allow to determine how I am to look at this or that problem, conflict, slight, perceived, or otherwise, or what have you...'

Because faith alone is ever the victory that overcomes; even should one end up alone; as the Apostle Paul often found himself.

In this, I suspect he wrote those words not only well aware of the stubbornly deaf ears in their duplicity he was writing to, but aware throughout that his was but to put it out there, that it find its fertile soil amongst the Corinthians wherever that might be.

Thus, his earlier "Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand." 2 Cor. 1:24.