ECT Disposing of a MAD list

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You are proof-texting. that actually happened during an encounter with a non-Jew who 'had more faith that all of you in Israel.'

This has been treated many times. He got about 220 missionaries ready by the time he finished the seminar between the resurrection and Pentecost (Lk 24). They practiced in Israel, and were all set for 'the ends of the earth' Mt 28:19, Mk 13:15, etc. Indeed, the plan was to make as many people in Israel missionaries to 'the islands and distant shores' as possible, because they had the background in the Scriptures.

The Bible is not chopped up between programs and full of 'switch-over' moments etc as D'ism has been declaring for 150 years, as though we 'needed' it to make sense of the Bible. Someone 'voided and replaced' the promise to all nations, says Gal 3:17, and that still needs to be cleared up and sorted.

I don't even "get" what you're "trying" to say??

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Interplanetary is a wee bit confused. He thinks too highly of himself and his erroneous conclusions.

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus was speaking to the House of Israel. You're utterly confused because you don't know how to "Rightly Divide" the Scriptures. That's a real problem for you.

...and Paul was speaking to Timothy, and Titus, and Corinthians, and Galatians, and Romans, and Hebrews, and Ephesians, etc.

Are you any of those? No, you are not.

 

[God's Truth]

Look closely and you'll see that the resurrection of Christ is not one of the 'tasks' that needed to be done for our justification, but is God's statement (Rom 1:4) that Christ's other work met the standard and believers are (legally) alive in him. This is also found in Rom 4:25 and Acts 13:33, where 'raising' is not the sense of 'appearing in our history' but the same found in the next verse 34, where it is attached to the shifting of promises to David on to Christ in an Isaiah quote which foretold it.

Justification from sins therefore came 'through the Jews' Jn 4 for all nations, and was the promise to Abraham all along, Gal 3.

Please speak more about this to me because I am not sure exactly what you are saying. Are you saying Jesus did not have to die for our sins?

 

[Interplanner]

Please speak more about this to me because I am not sure exactly what you are saying. Are you saying Jesus did not have to die for our sins?

No, I'm referring specifically to the resurrection. It was the "declaration" by the Father that the Son was acceptable as our atonement, Rom 1:4. "He was declared with power...by the resurrection..." Diagram that and you'll see that the declaration of approval and victory was made by resurrection. It's dramatic.

I'm saying the resurrection is a sign of approval of the other things done by Christ. It was not a thing he needed to do to save us; all indications are he was passive in it; the Father took the action of raising him.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

...and Paul was speaking to Timothy, and Titus, and Corinthians, and Galatians, and Romans, and Hebrews, and Ephesians, etc.

Are you any of those? No, you are not.

What you just said makes no logical sense. However, I've grown accustomed to your non-sensical comments.

 

[God's Truth]

No, I'm referring specifically to the resurrection. It was the "declaration" by the Father that the Son was acceptable as our atonement, Rom 1:4. "He was declared with power...by the resurrection..." Diagram that and you'll see that the declaration of approval and victory was made by resurrection. It's dramatic.

I'm saying the resurrection is a sign of approval of the other things done by Christ. It was not a thing he needed to do to save us; all indications are he was passive in it; the Father took the action of raising him.

I still do not know what you are saying. What did I say that you think you are correcting me on?

 

[God's Truth]

What you just said makes no logical sense. However, I've grown accustomed to your non-sensical comments.

It means according to your logic, nothing in the Bible was written to or for any of us.

 

[God's Truth]

No, I'm referring specifically to the resurrection. It was the "declaration" by the Father that the Son was acceptable as our atonement, Rom 1:4. "He was declared with power...by the resurrection..." Diagram that and you'll see that the declaration of approval and victory was made by resurrection. It's dramatic.

I'm saying the resurrection is a sign of approval of the other things done by Christ. It was not a thing he needed to do to save us; all indications are he was passive in it; the Father took the action of raising him.

Jesus had to die for our sins and be raised up to the right hand of the Father. In this, we have a High Priest who lives to intercede for us. Jesus dying for us and ascending to heaven is how we are able to receive the Holy Spirit to live inside us.

As for you saying the Father took action of raising him...Jesus is God the Father in the flesh and Jesus raised himself.

 

[Interplanner]

Jesus had to die for our sins and be raised up to the right hand of the Father. In this, we have a High Priest who lives to intercede for us. Jesus dying for us and ascending to heaven is how we are able to receive the Holy Spirit to live inside us.

As for you saying the Father took action of raising him...Jesus is God the Father in the flesh and Jesus raised himself.

Then send an explanation of Rom 1:4 and 4:25 and Acts 13:33. God raised him because of what he accomplished. Ie, honored him. "You (the Father) will not let your Holy One (the Son) see corruption" says Ps 16 quoted many times by the apostles explaining the Gospel to Israel.

Christ was a God-man mediator. He acted to represent God to man, but also man to God. He accomplished certain things as a man so that we could be justified from our sins.

The NT views the resurrection as the seal or signification that what he did was perfect, propitious, effective, and no one else. So our own first resurrection is "in Him" (Eph 1, Jn 5:23). That means in His. That's how we also know we have no condemnation as those in Christ Jesus. I know you know this, but this is HOW we know.

 

[God's Truth]

Then send an explanation of Rom 1:4 and 4:25 and Acts 13:33. God raised him because of what he accomplished. Ie, honored him. "You (the Father) will not let your Holy One (the Son) see corruption" says Ps 16 quoted many times by the apostles explaining the Gospel to Israel.

Christ was a God-man mediator. He acted to represent God to man, but also man to God. He accomplished certain things as a man so that we could be justified from our sins.

The NT views the resurrection as the seal or signification that what he did was perfect, propitious, effective, and no one else. So our own first resurrection is "in Him" (Eph 1, Jn 5:23). That means in His. That's how we also know we have no condemnation as those in Christ Jesus. I know you know this, but this is HOW we know.

I do not know how you think you have disproved anything that I said. Are you merely elaborating on what I said and agree with me?

 

[God's Truth]

Then send an explanation of Rom 1:4 and 4:25 and Acts 13:33.

Why do you say THEN explain Romans 1:4, and 4:25, and Acts 13:33?

What do you think that I said wrong and how do you think you have disproved me?

 

[Interplanner]

It is powerful concept one it is in hand. The grammar of Rom 4:25 is that Christ was raised because justification had been secured. Not the reverse.

When the believer realizes that the resurrection is not something that NEEDED to be done for him, but GOD'S STATEMENT OF APPROVAL OF WHAT CHRIST DID FOR HIM, there is no telling what that believer will do!

I hope you will see the precision of the grammar only brings out more power and flavor of something you already know about and believe.

 

[God's Truth]

It is powerful concept one it is in hand. The grammar of Rom 4:25 is that Christ was raised because justification had been secured. Not the reverse.

What in the world is the reversed?

When the believer realizes that the resurrection is not something that NEEDED to be done for him, but GOD'S STATEMENT OF APPROVAL OF WHAT CHRIST DID FOR HIM, there is no telling what that believer will do!

Of course the resurrection needed to be done!

We all have to go through Jesus to be with God the Father.

I hope you will see the precision of the grammar only brings out more power and flavor of something you already know about and believe.

The resurrection needed to be done. You would not be able to receive the Holy Spirit if Jesus had not returned to the Father.

 

[Interplanner]

Justification does not prove the resurrection happened. The resurrection proves that there is justification for us.

I don't know if it is grammar or not, but do you see how two completely different beliefs could start if we don't have cause and effect in the right sequence?

 

[God's Truth]

Justification does not prove the resurrection happened. The resurrection proves that there is justification for us.

I don't know if it is grammar or not, but do you see how two completely different beliefs could start if we don't have cause and effect in the right sequence?

Why don't you answer my questions?

Please answer my questions.

 

[Interplanner]

What in the world is the reversed?

Of course the resurrection needed to be done!

We all have to go through Jesus to be with God the Father.






Your Q:
what is reversed (by confusing 'he was raised because we were now justified')?

I answered that: his resurrection proves justification was secured. The reverse would say that our/my justification proves that Christ was resurrected, which is weak and subjective.


Q (?): why don't I understand that the resurrection needed to be done?
I do. But it was not the package of things Christ needed to do to accomplish justification; it was his reward. He was honored by being raised up above all the principalities who try to harm the human race. He was raised because of the perfection of his life and sacrifice. The resurrection didn't 'need' to be done in the same sense that he needed to suffer brutally. It needed to be done because God honors righteousness. Justification had been purchased by Christ's suffering and God awarded him the seat of honor at the right hand.

I think it may help you to see a bit more difference within the trinity--different roles in the Gospel. As you find in the gospel of John, for example.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

It means according to your logic, nothing in the Bible was written to or for any of us.

Now that's an absurd conclusion, even coming from you?

 

[God's Truth]

What in the world is the reversed?

Of course the resurrection needed to be done!

Didn't you say the resurrection did NOT have to be done?

We all have to go through Jesus to be with God the Father.

That is right.

Your Q:
what is reversed (by confusing 'he was raised because we were now justified')?

I didn't ask that.

I never asked that and I never said that.

No one is justified until they come to God through the blood of Jesus.

Jesus is the High Priest that sits at the right hand of the Father.

A person must be given the Holy Spirit to be cleaned by God.

I answered that: his resurrection proves justification was secured. The reverse would say that our/my justification proves that Christ was resurrected, which is weak and subjective.

I have no idea where you get that.

Q (?): why don't I understand that the resurrection needed to be done?
I do. But it was not the package of things Christ needed to do to accomplish justification;

You see here, you said it again that it was not needed.

it was his reward. He was honored by being raised up above all the principalities who try to harm the human race. He was raised because of the perfection of his life and sacrifice. The resurrection didn't 'need' to be done in the same sense that he needed to suffer brutally. It needed to be done because God honors righteousness. Justification had been purchased by Christ's suffering and God awarded him the seat of honor at the right hand.

I think it may help you to see a bit more difference within the trinity--different roles in the Gospel. As you find in the gospel of John, for example.

Jesus is God the Father come in the flesh as a Son of Man.

Jesus came to earth to show us the way. He taught forgiveness through him, and said that when he sheds his blood, it is the blood of the New Covenant, and we must drink of this blood, and eat of his flesh. That is about believing and obeying Jesus. Jesus said when he is crucified then all could come to him to be saved, not just the Jews who already belonged to God by living faith, but all who will come to him by living faith. Jesus reconciles us to God by giving us the Spirit of God to live in our hearts. The Holy Spirit could not be given to all until Jesus had been glorified.

John 7:39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ. It is the Spirit that sanctifies us, cleans us, justifies us, who reconciles us to God the Father. That does not happen until we RECEIVE the Holy Spirit. Jesus choose to whom he will give his Spirit, and he chooses those who believe and obey him.

 

[Interplanner]

GT wrote:
Jesus reconciles us to God by giving us the Spirit of God to live in our hearts.

That's not what 2 Cor 5 says, is it? This is an important point. We can easily internalize the Christian Gospel and have something very different from what they said.

The resurrection was the reward to Christ by the Father for doing what he did. Acts 2:34, quoting Ps 110, is saying just that.

That puts it in a different category than living a perfectly righteous life for us and suffering for us.

I won't press this fine point any further, but hope you can see the difference and gain power from it.