Well I just post and then if you dont agree or do then you post in response if you want or not...and so it goes...
I already posted earlier why I think so...so now it’s your turn...well again after this post...if you want...
Dispensationalism
- Thread starter Jacob
- Start date
Well I just post and then if you dont agree or do then you post in response if you want or not...and so it goes...
I already posted earlier why I think so...so now it’s your turn...well again after this post...if you want...
I observe the Sabbath and I am an ex-Dispensationalist. So I just want to know what you think, so that I can reply. 9 out of 10 is not good enough to cause someone to observe. I do not know if Sabbath observance is necessarily required, but 9 out of 10 may drive someone to observe, or not depending.
oh I aint boasting...I am grateful I am a full citizen of Israel...replacing jews cut off for disobedience...the trunk remains...Israel remains without the jews...who reject that the One Who birthed Israel when human genetics were to old to do so...also had a Son...sent to save Israel...and in Him there is no more jew...or goyim
yes Israel HIS PEOPLE shall be saved...ONE LAW for native and goyim included...whosoever believes and is obedient and faithful...just like the church in the wilderness...ONE PEOPLE of two IN HIM no jew nor gentile but a citizen of Israel...saved Israel not disobedient or disbelieving that their creator had a Son Who came down to save whosoever believed...
I got nothing against semites...or jews waiting for the messiah to establish Israel...and got real love for my enemies and prayers for their conversion before yours provoke 2/3 of their deaths...at least I don’t support that...
And before that even...about 1000 years before...until then dont go into the “holy” desert to find Him or into the inner rooms made by hands...do not believe it...
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At the jerusalem council James concluded the goyim would continue to hear Moses preached in every synagogue they kept crowding in every city on every Sabbath...
Isaiah was clear Sabbath to Sabbath all would worship...Heb 4:9 is clear a sabbatismos remains for His people
He instructed prayers be prayed that the Sabbath be kept in future times of trouble...
And yet most christians reject Sabbath was made for man...but was just for jews...or was abolished...
It was jewish false witness to slander Stephen and Paul that accused that they were teaching Yahushua destroyed the law...
But that jewish witness of them was false...they did not teach that...
“Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah” not some or most or all but one “and the faith OF Yahushua”
Yahushua’s faith includes the Sabbath...as was His custom...
What is it?
A lot of good stuff there, and getting it right.
Something happened with a coming of the new covenant.
The Sabbath was not only for those born Jews. There are converts and Gentiles, and Christians.
Yup...
Think about it...Yahushua taught and lived His last will and testament BEFORE He died...His blood SIGNED it His death SEALED it...
Heb 9:16”In the case of a will, it is necessary to establish the death of the one who made it, 17because a will does not take effect until the one who made it has died; it cannot be executed while he is still alive...”
And after the testator dies that last will and testament can NOT be changed...
so IF the apostles or any follower of Yahushua feels they can eat swine IT MUST BE MADE KNOWN IN THE TESTAMENT WRITTEN WHILE HE WAS STILL ALIVE...since change can NOT occur after the covenant is sealed...by His death...
So if worship on Sunday was to be in the new covenant...HE MUST HAVE PUT THAT INTO THE COVENANT PRIOR HIS DEATH
More than WWJD? it is what DID Jesus do?...do that...
I am not saying to eat anything unkosher. Not sure about your logic. He did observe and teach the commandments. What goes into a person's mouth or what comes out of their mouth. What does declared all foods clean mean?
that is it...that is the new covenant...what He observed and taught...
it’s NOT what goes into a man that makes him unclean...it is the fact that he already IS unclean for even allowing something unclean into his mouth...
Like a tattoo...
You aren’t made unclean when the needle pierces the skin...you are unclean for even thinking to get a tattoo planning what to get, where on your body, and by who to get it from, when, how much,...all of it...by the time the inking starts you are long unclean...
Thus nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him “unclean” where “unclean” means having an unclean heart. Eating unclean bread does not make a man’s heart unclean. Instead, the Master points out that unclean bread “entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats” (Mark 7:19 KJV). That is to say, it passes through the digestive system and goes out the end opposite from whence it came in. This is the plain meaning of the passage.
Yet some translators take the clause “purging all meats” as a narrator’s parenthetical statement and translate “purging” as “Thus He declared all foods clean.” The words “Thus He declared,” however, are not in the Greek text. They are supplied by the translator to make the new construction of the sentence fit. The Greek text literally says, “purging all foods.” Jesus was not setting aside the Law; He was talking about (ahem) “going potty.”
http://www.sabbathreformation.com/a...ean-there-s-more-on-mark-7-1-23-63892046.html
If you were an Ex-Dispensationalist, you would not only know that GO is wrong about all that, but you would not have to ask someone who is wrong about all that (GO) to explain it.
It is repeatedly clear in your every post that you never understood Dispensationalism.
Dispensationalism is a Bible Based Bible Study Principle.
In other words, it is basically a way to study the Bible that the first reply I posted on here - about what God said to Israel when He separated them from all other Nations - shows that the Dispensational Bible Study APPROACH is based on Scripture.
All it is, is noticing and RESPECTING BOTH those KEY things in Scripture that DIFFER from one another, and those that are THE SAME within a TIMELINE.
Another VERY SIMPLE example...
Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Now we know...and...But now...are not the same...they differ from one another.
One was before...the other.
Dispensationalism is this simple.
Here is another example, based on the above, Bible Based Principle...
Luke 22:35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
That is describing AN IMPORTANT DISTINCTION BETWEEN things that NOW DIFFERED from how things had been BEFORE.
Here is another one that that IMPORTANT DISTINCTION in Luke 23:36 was actually about...
Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Now, notice where He stopped in Isaiah itself...
Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
He stopped reading at the first half of Isaiah 61: 2.
Why?
Because the part about "and the day of vengeance of our God" is NOT about His First Advent, but about His Return in vengeance.
The Lord HIMSELF RESPECTED DISTINCTIONS in Scripture BETWEEN KEY things that DIFFER and those that are the SAME within a TIMELINE.
Now, where do you think 22:36's "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one" belongs?
Within Luke 4:21's "this day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears" (His First Advent), OR within that part in Isaiah AFTER where He stopped reading Isaiah in Luke 4 - the part in Isaiah 61: 2 that says "and the day of vengeance of our God" (about His return in vengeance)?
He HIMSELF had told them - just over three years earlier - which part of those two Advents Luke 22:36 is a part of.
He'd told them when He first chose them and sent them out to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. 10:9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 10:10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 10:18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
THIS is BIBLE Based Dispensational Bible Study - the study and RESPECT of, BOTH those KEY things in Scripture that DIFFER from one another, and those that are THE SAME within a TIMELINE.
Til you at least attempt to study the Bible according to the above for a good year, or so - as so obviously practiced by the Lord Himself - you haven't ANY business neither saying you're an Ex-Dispensationalist, nor concluding that Dispensationalism is not a Bible Based Study Approach.
Acts 17: 11, 12 (you might do well to memorize these two verses in Acts 17, and then seek to consistently apply their three-fold principle).
So God's Law still is? What about unclean animals in Peter's vision? What about animal sacrifice?
Good Scripture!
Interesting. I follow what you have said here, having heard some of it before. But I do not accept it. I believe that you have split up the scripture into time periods unnecessary.
yes
Peter explained his vision not once but twice that it was about taking the gospel to goyim formerly considered unclean by jews...still considered unclean by jews today...it was about bringing goyim into Israel...NOT judaism...
Just as it was when the church was in the wilderness...ONE LAW for native and goyim within their gates...goyim were brought into Israel NOT the tribe of Judah...as His house is a house of prayer for ALL nations...no monopoly there...
Israel was a promise from above never about genetic blood lines...His people are of faith and obedience...worshipping in spirit and truth
Yah is satisfied...His wrath passes over until the end...our lips and lives our good works are pleasing sacrifices...sacrifices NEVER saved...were meant to teach Mercy rather than sacrifice...and NOW He teaches us that...
If you say so.
For I never said anything about time periods.
That is what you read into my words, out of your decided blindness, given your obviously willed failure to have at least applied first, that three-fold principle implied in Acts 17: 11, 12, to what I wrote.
More examples of a Timeline running throughout Scripture...
Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
John 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
John 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Even the demons that that land was then so heavily polluted with (due to Israel's wholesale rebellion, etc.), understood this concept that you in your willful ignorance would oppose...
Matthew 8:28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Here are two individuals who got things on Scripture's ever obvious Timeline...wrong.
2 Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
Here is another mention of this concept...
Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
1 - at sundry times, and in diverse manners, in time past;;
2 - Hath in these last days spoken.
Those two divisions of time are not the same.
Here is another mention - of a yet future one...
Hebrews 2:5's "the world to come..."
1 Corinthians 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
Acts 17: 11, 12.
Then what may I ask has been abolished, annulled, made obsolete?
Please excuse my ignorance of the words you would use. You mentioned the days of vengeance, and your Bible Study Method has you believing something. I said time periods.
I do not know what you are trying to tell me now.
Can you name names instead of making broad generalisations? For example, I am a Christian, but I don't deny that the Sabbath was made for man or believe that Jesus overturned the law.
The old covenant with “blood” Israel...which by second temple times was mainly/only consisted of jews...the rest of the tribes were gone...but ONLY AFTER having been a mighty nation a peoples like the sand of the sea...thus His side of the contract was indeed fulfilled THEY WERE A MIGHTY NATION...and yet the jews made NO effort to be a blessing to the other Nations...or allowing goyim into their fellowship...and well finally even killed their husband thus death did them part...and freeing themselves of that covenant...
His “it is finished” at the cross was His teaching and demonstrating the “new covenant” which was now WITH HIM and happily again to WHOSOEVER believeth because Yah so loved the WORLD and not just jews...
What else was abolished was the curse of not being restored to Yah and HIS WAYS...but now THROUGH HIM that restoration was possible...but only through His new agreement He demonstrated and taught and SEALED with His death...NO CHANGES...
Now ALL can through the Son be fully restored to Him the Father and His WAY and to what it would have been like before the detour of sin...
Is why we are to practice being MORE LIKE HIM less like the fallen world...to get ready for eternal life with HIM...
Animal sacrifices and the shedding blood its symbol of DEATH was no longer needed as Yah was finally pleased and satisfied and now His people are covered again by innocent blood that of His only begotten Son...those that believed and obeyed covered themselves in that blood and will be PASSED OVER again...that final judgement...
That of course pleases Him so He of course says “well done good and faithful servent enter in to your reward”
So the debt or bill was paid for {abolished} but the OT prices remain...the Law its ministration of death pointing out sin....we have a NEW HIGH PRIEST a new PAYOR and a way to pay...
So the need for blood, temple, levitical priests, all obsolete...but the temple was just a divine stage an opera of righteousness...a theatre of teaching of holiness...and it has show times...these show times remain as reminders of Him HIS WAYS...that calendar HE MADE remains and we benefit from celebrating these show times of divine appointments...yearly AND WEEKLY...
So the calendar and the Law remains as they are ETERNAL...but the contract with “blood” israel is obsolete...the new Israel is very much like His first wife...His taste in woman doesnt change...ha
hope that helps a bit...