ECT Dispelling Mysticism.

[Lazy afternoon]

HI,

Many teach that man is a spirit which has a soul and lives in a body.

That is the core teaching of mysticism (spiritualism)

The truth is that man is a soul, which has a spirit, and lives in a body.

The word soul means life.

Even animals have soul (life)

When people die, the absence of life and therefore consciousness, means the soul (life) is extinguished, they are dead.

Consider this--

When God breathed into Adam and he became a living soul, did God breathe a conscious person into him?

No. The soul (life) of Adam began through the spirit of life coming into the body.

Before that Adam did not consciously exist.

Men say their spirit goes to God in Heaven when they die and thus be present with the Lord, for the Bible says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Why would believers have to go to Heaven for them or their spirit to be present with the Lord??

Never mind that 2 Cor.ch 5 makes it plain that to be present with the Lord requires one to be in the new body,

and also that Jesus in John 14 said He would return so that his disciples would then be with Him where He is.

This error of saying that a man is a spirit, is not only contradicted by Jesus who said He is not a spirit, but leads to all sorts of spirualist doctrines which hide the truth from mankind, and makes children afraid of ghosts and the dark.



LA

 

[Truster]

Animals do have a soul, but when animals die there is no continuance of that soul. They do not leave time and enter eternity. A dead animal is a truly a dead animal.


In relation to what you have said about the soul of man. Revelation 6:9 and Revelation 20:4 need to be taken into consideration.

 

[musterion]

Such a mystical post from one decrying mysticism.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Animals do have a soul, but when animals die there is no continuance of that soul. They do not leave time and enter eternity. A dead animal is a truly a dead animal.


In relation to what you have said about the soul of man. Revelation 6:9 and Revelation 20:4 need to be taken into consideration.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

One can be alive in the eyes of God while still being dead before being resurrected to life.


As all the saints are until the return of Christ--

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


These souls are people who have been raised from the dead in the first resurrection.

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.




LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Such a mystical post from one decrying mysticism.

One can be dead while still breathing.

LA

 

[Word based mystic]

dispelling misunderstanding of definition of mysticism

dispelling misunderstanding of definition of mysticism

HI,

Many teach that man is a spirit which has a soul and lives in a body.

That is the core teaching of mysticism (spiritualism)

The truth is that man is a soul, which has a spirit, and lives in a body.

The word soul means life.

Even animals have soul (life)

When people die, the absence of life and therefore consciousness, means the soul (life) is extinguished, they are dead.

Consider this--

When God breathed into Adam and he became a living soul, did God breathe a conscious person into him?

No. The soul (life) of Adam began through the spirit of life coming into the body.

Before that Adam did not consciously exist.

Men say their spirit goes to God in Heaven when they die and thus be present with the Lord, for the Bible says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Why would believers have to go to Heaven for them or their spirit to be present with the Lord??

Never mind that 2 Cor.ch 5 makes it plain that to be present with the Lord requires one to be in the new body,

and also that Jesus in John 14 said He would return so that his disciples would then be with Him where He is.

This error of saying that a man is a spirit, is not only contradicted by Jesus who said He is not a spirit, but leads to all sorts of spirualist doctrines which hide the truth from mankind, and makes children afraid of ghosts and the dark.



LA

please redefine your word mysticism
The definition is not whether one defines the soul and spirit in a particular manner.

maybe some spiritualist/occult movements may define mysticism as you define it But let us stick to the definition/word.

mystic/spirit led comprehension has nothing to do with whether one believes the status of a soul in death before resurrection.

rather it is (one who believes in the spiritual apprehension of truths that are beyond the intellect).

One begins in spiritual life through being born again.
The Spirit gives birth to spiritual life.
Thus begins the seeing and entering into the kingdom of God.
Walking in the Spirit is a key
not mental understanding of spiritual principles.

galatians 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another,

this next scripture is what I base as a definer of mystic.

ephesians 3:16-19 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

Vs 18 the word comprehend is defined as experience not (knowledge)
vs 19 shows the limitation of mental (knowledge)
vs 19 also dealing with the word (know) is a relational communion definition not a mental understanding.

pursuing relational communion through walking in the Spirit, which the Spirit has and is empowering the believer to experience.

mental and carnal disciplines of understanding the scripture is not a Spirit led activity.
Rather perception through the empowerment and inspiration of the Holy Spirit bringing our being to comprehend/experience Gods love. Through putting on the mind of Christ we understand scripture.

mystic/spirit led comprehension has nothing to do with whether one believes the status of a soul in death before resurrection.

Spirit led comprehension is relational love understanding of Gods love (not carnal) knowledge

 

[musterion]

One can be dead while still breathing.

LA

Agreed. You are proof, God slanderer.

 

[Levolor]

please redefine your word mysticism
The definition is not whether one defines the soul and spirit in a particular manner.

maybe some spiritualist/occult movements may define mysticism as you define it But let us stick to the definition/word.

mystic/spirit led comprehension has nothing to do with whether one believes the status of a soul in death before resurrection.

rather it is (one who believes in the spiritual apprehension of truths that are beyond the intellect).

One begins in spiritual life through being born again.
The Spirit gives birth to spiritual life.
Thus begins the seeing and entering into the kingdom of God.
Walking in the Spirit is a key
not mental understanding of spiritual principles.

galatians 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another,

this next scripture is what I base as a definer of mystic.

ephesians 3:16-19 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

Vs 18 the word comprehend is defined as experience not (knowledge)
vs 19 shows the limitation of mental (knowledge)
vs 19 also dealing with the word (know) is a relational communion definition not a mental understanding.

pursuing relational communion through walking in the Spirit, which the Spirit has and is empowering the believer to experience.

mental and carnal disciplines of understanding the scripture is not a Spirit led activity.
Rather perception through the empowerment and inspiration of the Holy Spirit bringing our being to comprehend/experience Gods love. Through putting on the mind of Christ we understand scripture.

mystic/spirit led comprehension has nothing to do with whether one believes the status of a soul in death before resurrection.

Spirit led comprehension is relational love understanding of Gods love (not carnal) knowledge

Amen. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Excellent post, WBM!

Praise God.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Agreed. You are proof, God slanderer.

When you become a Christian then God will fill your heart with good things.


LA

 

[Levolor]

When you become a Christian then God will fill your heart with good things.


LA

We know them by their fruit.

We all know, I should think, what the positive/beneficial/Spiritual fruits are.

How about the other side? The dark/negative/satanic/devilish side?

Let's take a look:

13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [In red because Christ said this too.]

15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.***

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:13-21

Let's also look in the Amplified to make it easy for those who miss the meanings of what it looks like to walk in the flesh. So, from verse 19-21.

19 Now the doings (practices) of the flesh are clear (obvious): they are immorality, impurity, indecency,

20 Idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger (ill temper), selfishness, divisions (dissensions), party spirit (factions, sects with peculiar opinions, heresies),

21 Envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you beforehand, just as I did previously, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21 (AMP)

I wonder if those who have enmity (hostility), who create strife (where there is strife there is every evil work - James 3:16) with anger and on and on in these defiled behaviors full of iniquity, even realize that St. Paul says that they will not inherit the kingdom of God?

***These behaviors, those of the flesh listed in v19, 20, and 21, are not those who are led of the Spirit.

May all who delight in these behaviors be convicted in their heart and repent and have their minds renewed.

 

[patrick jane]

HI,

Many teach that man is a spirit which has a soul and lives in a body.

That is the core teaching of mysticism (spiritualism)

The truth is that man is a soul, which has a spirit, and lives in a body.

The word soul means life.

Even animals have soul (life)

When people die, the absence of life and therefore consciousness, means the soul (life) is extinguished, they are dead.

Consider this--

When God breathed into Adam and he became a living soul, did God breathe a conscious person into him?

No. The soul (life) of Adam began through the spirit of life coming into the body.

Before that Adam did not consciously exist.

Men say their spirit goes to God in Heaven when they die and thus be present with the Lord, for the Bible says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Why would believers have to go to Heaven for them or their spirit to be present with the Lord??

Never mind that 2 Cor.ch 5 makes it plain that to be present with the Lord requires one to be in the new body,

and also that Jesus in John 14 said He would return so that his disciples would then be with Him where He is.

This error of saying that a man is a spirit, is not only contradicted by Jesus who said He is not a spirit, but leads to all sorts of spirualist doctrines which hide the truth from mankind, and makes children afraid of ghosts and the dark.



LA

parts of that are ok, other parts are like scary bedtime story

 

[Lazy afternoon]

please redefine your word mysticism
The definition is not whether one defines the soul and spirit in a particular manner.

maybe some spiritualist/occult movements may define mysticism as you define it But let us stick to the definition/word.

mystic/spirit led comprehension has nothing to do with whether one believes the status of a soul in death before resurrection.

rather it is (one who believes in the spiritual apprehension of truths that are beyond the intellect).

One begins in spiritual life through being born again.
The Spirit gives birth to spiritual life.
Thus begins the seeing and entering into the kingdom of God.
Walking in the Spirit is a key
not mental understanding of spiritual principles.

galatians 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another,

this next scripture is what I base as a definer of mystic.

ephesians 3:16-19 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

Vs 18 the word comprehend is defined as experience not (knowledge)
vs 19 shows the limitation of mental (knowledge)
vs 19 also dealing with the word (know) is a relational communion definition not a mental understanding.

pursuing relational communion through walking in the Spirit, which the Spirit has and is empowering the believer to experience.

mental and carnal disciplines of understanding the scripture is not a Spirit led activity.
Rather perception through the empowerment and inspiration of the Holy Spirit bringing our being to comprehend/experience Gods love. Through putting on the mind of Christ we understand scripture.

mystic/spirit led comprehension has nothing to do with whether one believes the status of a soul in death before resurrection.

Spirit led comprehension is relational love understanding of Gods love (not carnal) knowledge

The Jewish and Christian mystics who wrote theories about being alive in a spirit form when they are dead were all spiritualists.

LA

 

[Levolor]

The Jewish and Christian mystics who wrote theories about being alive in a spirit form when they are dead were all spiritualists.

LA

Jesus said that those who were born of the Spirit move as the wind.

It is true.

Have you not traveled/moved as the wind? I have and know that life in the Spirit is more real/more alive than this world.

I, like Christ Jesus, am not of this world.

St. Paul says we shall not all sleep (I won't), but we will all be changed.

What do you suppose you will change to at death?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Jesus said that those who were born of the Spirit move as the wind.

It is true.

Have you not traveled/moved as the wind? I have and know that life in the Spirit is more real/more alive than this world.

I, like Christ Jesus, am not of this world.

St. Paul says we shall not all sleep (I won't), but we will all be changed.

What do you suppose you will change to at death?

Dead, like the Elisha and David.

2Ki 13:21 And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.


LA

 

[Word based mystic]

redefine

redefine

The Jewish and Christian mystics who wrote theories about being alive in a spirit form when they are dead were all spiritualists.

LA

you just proved my point.

you took a group of people with a label. and because they thought like occultists or spiritists you now change the meaning of (mystic) to be defined as what the previous straying group had believed.

i.e. because we christians are in latter days are we all defined as latter day christians (mormons)

i.e. because someone believes in one point of calvinism does that make him a hyper calvinist?

you have added characteristics of spiritualists/occultists to the definition of a simple word

i.e. because some believe God still answers prayers supernaturally does that make those same believers occultist? because they believe in supernatural activity.

 

[Levolor]

Dead, like the Elisha and David.

2Ki 13:21 And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.


LA

Our God is the God of the living.

And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err. Mark 12:26-27

As evidenced by the transfiguration of Christ on the mount:

2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Matthew 17:2, 3

Moses' and Elias' bodies were dead, but they were not. The saints, just like Jesus Christ, can materialize a body at will. Just like Moses and Elias appeared.

It is true,:

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matthew 7:14

Because they who find it, will not sleep:

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1 Corinthians 15:51

Those who have found the gate, the narrow way, have already been changed. They will not sleep... lol, they do not now even if their body is resting in slumber. This is indeed a mystery to those who have not experienced it.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Our God is the God of the living.

And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err. Mark 12:26-27

Men who live before God are still alive to God when they are dead.

They are dead until they rise from the dead.---

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

1Co 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1Co 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
1Co 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

As evidenced by the transfiguration of Christ on the mount:

2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Matthew 17:2, 3

Moses' and Elias' bodies were dead, but they were not. The saints, just like Jesus Christ, can materialize a body at will. Just like Moses and Elias appeared.

The record of scripture is that both Elijah and Moses went into Heaven in their mortal bodies, as did Enoch.

As was with Lazarus, Moses was made to live again after he was dead.

It is true,:

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matthew 7:14

Because they who find it, will not sleep:

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1 Corinthians 15:51

The only reason for "we shall not all sleep" which means we shall not all die, is because--

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

and for another reason in the Kingdom of God yet to come.

Those who have found the gate, the narrow way, have already been changed. They will not sleep... lol, they do not now even if their body is resting in slumber. This is indeed a mystery to those who have not experienced it.

Jesus said believers would never die AFTER they die the first time and are raised in the resurrection.

Being made alive to God by being united with God in the Spirit is not a resurrection from the dead, because the first resurrection from the dead is from the graves and is the first.

1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

LA

 

[Cross Reference]

The record of scripture is that both Elijah and Moses went into Heaven in their mortal bodies, as did Enoch.

As was with Lazarus, Moses was made to live again after he was dead.
LA

Sin could not enter heaven, so you must be mistaken. Perhaps you are referring to Paradise, Abraham's bosom, the abode of the dead, Samuel came up from to speak to Saul? 1Sam.28:15-19.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Sin could not enter heaven, so you must be mistaken. Perhaps you are referring to Paradise, Abraham's bosom, the abode of the dead, Samuel came up from to speak to Saul? 1Sam.28:15-19.

Wherever Enoch, Elijah , and Moses were taken they were in the Glory of God to some extent.

I could not say they were or are exactly where Jesus is now--

1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.


Samuel did not come up to speak to Saul, but the spirit which dogged Samuel during his lifetime did.

God would not answer by the three things He had ordained to speak to men and there is just no way that God would send His prophet to speak to Saul through a witch.

The spirit came up because it was from below and not from above.

The Paradise of the Bible is never spoken of as being an abode for the dead.



Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Today is not correct. Jesus answered the question correctly. He said the thief would be remembered by Jesus when He came into His Kingdom in that day.



Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

LA