Definitely not southeast

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ThePhy

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One of the earlier archived Bob Enyart shows was from Nov 16, 2001, Titled “North by Northeast”. Starting at about 10 minutes into the show, he spends some time ridiculing and laughing at the direction that a prayer rug is pointed in a small Mosque near Denver. This is in the period not long after 9-11, during which he focused much of his satire on the Moslems.

In the show, he makes a big joke of the fact that worshippers on the rug would be praying towards Iceland, not Mecca. He even calls up the place where the mosque is (it was associated with a small travel agency in Aurora), but only gets their answering machine. He leaves a message asking them to call him, and shortly thereafter the show drifts to other subjects.

I did not hear him refer to that mosque again in later shows, or make any mention of whether or not they returned his call. I wonder why? Since that show was a couple of years ago, there is no discussion of it that I have seen at TOL.

I am not a student of the Moslem faith, but I am familiar with spheres and geography. Bob claims to have traveled internationally, so I was surprised to hear his comments about the direction the prayer rug is pointed. Specifically, most people that take long flights in the Northern Hemisphere are aware that the flights often swing north a bit, and then curl back south before landing. Simple reason – look at a globe of the earth. Ignore the lines of latitude and longitude, and concentrate on the shape itself. Now take a piece of string and find the shortest distance between Denver and Mecca by stretching the string tightly. An equivalent effect can be gained by plotting a direct flight from Denver to Mecca using Microsoft Flight Simulator, or use Microsoft Atlas or any of several other earth-mapping tools. You will find that Bob was (inadvertently) right, the path goes right over Iceland. The closest path on the surface of the earth from Denver to Mecca is to start to the Northeast.

Sorry Bob, but neither your study of science nor your international travel nor your inspiration seems to have taught you that the directions we associate with short trips – based on latitude and longitude, are not well suited to long distances. Bob would do well to become a true and faithful Moslem for a few years to learn of what he speaks before he embarrasses himself, (or becomes even a mediocre scientist).
 

Dann

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Heres the problem.
Given that the shortest distance between any two points is in fact a straight line, one must dig under the curvature of the sphere of the earth with his "string" to accomplish this line. Planes, I believe, are limited to flying though air and not the earths crust. They are subject to then the negotiating of the curvature of the earth by traveling closer to where the globe narrows to find the shortest flight distance though the atmosphere. The globe still to this day narrows at the poles. This is why the shortest atmospheric distance is always going to be greater than the straight line, making whatever your point was, dismally irrelevant.
Dann
 

ThePhy

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Silly directions in Christianity and Moslems

Silly directions in Christianity and Moslems

From Dann:
Heres the problem.
Given that the shortest distance between any two points is in fact a straight line, one must dig under the curvature of the sphere of the earth with his "string" to accomplish this line. Planes, I believe, are limited to flying though air and not the earths crust. They are subject to then the negotiating of the curvature of the earth by traveling closer to where the globe narrows to find the shortest flight distance though the atmosphere. The globe still to this day narrows at the poles. This is why the shortest atmospheric distance is always going to be greater than the straight line, making whatever your point was, dismally irrelevant.
I am well aware that it seems silly to think that prayers must give some obeisance to the curvature of the earth. I presume that is a holdover from ancient times when the earth was considered flat. My point was that if we admit any relevance to the idea of shortest distance (on the earth’s surface) between the Moslem and Mecca, then the prayer rug was correctly pointed. Mr. Enyart in his comments made no reference to burrowing through the surface of the earth. Enyarts comments about directions in this case are pure nonsense unless someone feels that there is some sort of requirement that one must determine directions by the use of a flat map. Mr. Enyart is still out of gas.

This silliness about directions has a historical counterpart in the Christian notion that heaven is “UP” and hell is “DOWN”. From the viewpoint of someone in the northern hemisphere, if someone were carried “UP” (a la Elijah) to heaven in Australia, they would be going to Hell.
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
The Muslims appear not to have adopted the belief in a flat earth held by some European Christians. Maps used to identify the "qibla" or "sacred direction" have survived from the sixteenth century that take into account the curvature of the earth. They appear to be based on earlier mathematics done in the 9th century by Muslim astronomers.

For an interesting article, see A Sine on the Road to Mecca from American Scientist Online, May-June 2001 issue.

Now whether every mosque in the world is accurate; who knows? It's probably as likely as every Christian church in the world maintaining exact replicas of the original scriptures... :think:
 

ThePhy

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Does Bob know where Mecca is?

Does Bob know where Mecca is?

From Zakath:
The Muslims appear not to have adopted the belief in a flat earth held by some European Christians. Maps used to identify the "qibla" or "sacred direction" have survived from the sixteenth century that take into account the curvature of the earth. They appear to be based on earlier mathematics done in the 9th century by Muslim astronomers.

For an interesting article, see A Sine on the Road to Mecca from American Scientist Online, May-June 2001 issue.

Now whether every mosque in the world is accurate; who knows? It's probably as likely as every Christian church in the world maintaining exact replicas of the original scriptures...
Thanks for the fascinating link. I would honesty not expect Bob (or most anyone else) to be aware that the Moslems had done the mathematics alluded to in the article so early in history. This idea of the sophistication of parts of math and science arising in non-Christian cultures earlier than in the Christian areas is interesting. It seems that the major advances in science and learning swung into the Western (Christian) world for the last few hundred years, but now science itself is leading an expanding large percentage of scientists to the conclusion that religion itself is fallacious.

From the link:
Turn then thy face towards the Sacred Mosque: wherever ye are, turn your faces towards it...
Using Encarta I found that if Moslems in Denver followed Bob’s claim that they should have been praying towards the Southeast, they would have had to relocate Mecca to South Africa.
 

PureX

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I'm sure Bob Enyart was really only interested in denigrating people of another religion. He wasn't the least bit interested in geography. Enyart is a grotesque caricature of a Christian who puffs himself up at the expense of anyone who doesn't cowtow to his ridiculous psudo-Christian bile.
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Originally posted by PureX
...Enyart is a grotesque caricature of a Christian who puffs himself up at the expense of anyone who doesn't cowtow to his ridiculous psudo-Christian bile.
If I change that to "kowtow" and "pseudo-Christian", may I use the quote (with attribution, of course)? :D
 

Poly

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Originally posted by Zakath

If I change that to "kowtow" and "pseudo-Christian", may I use the quote (with attribution, of course)? :D
You've corrected the spelling but what about the incorrect accusation? :chuckle:
 

Zakath

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Originally posted by Poly

You've corrected the spelling but what about the incorrect accusation? :chuckle:
I'm sure it's all a matter of perspective, Poly. After all, some people still consider Peter Popoff and Jimmy Swaggart great men of god...

There's a reason the founders of Christianity chose the sheep as a symbol to represent their followers. :think:
 

Poly

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Originally posted by Zakath


There's a reason the founders of Christianity chose the sheep as a symbol to represent their followers. :think:
I know. The honesty of it is great isn't it? Now if scriptures were not inspired of God and because man is a little on the heavy side when it comes to the whole pride issue, I'm guessing we'd see man puff himself up like in... oh I don't know, maybe the Koran?
 

Zakath

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Originally posted by Poly
I know. The honesty of it is great isn't it? Now if scriptures were not inspired of God and because man is a little on the heavy side when it comes to the whole pride issue, I'm guessing we'd see man puff himself up like in... oh I don't know, maybe the Koran?
After listening to WOF and CR preachers for years, I think there's plenty of potential for puffery in the Bible. ;)
 

Poly

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Originally posted by Zakath

After listening to WOF and CR preachers for years, I think there's plenty of potential for puffery in the Bible. ;)
WOF preachers might puff themselves up but if they are doing so because they feel they are patterning themselves after men of the bible then they are certainly missing the mark. Puffery in the bible? How puffed up is it to list all of the dumb and stupid mistakes man does such as was the case with Israel?
 

Zakath

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I think the Bible is diverse enough for people to take out of it pretty much what they will. The existenc of 30,000+ Christian sects in the United States alone prove that point. :)
 

One Eyed Jack

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I'd like to see a list of 30,000 different Christian denominations. Actually, I'd settle for a list of 300. I want to see if the people that keep saying this can support just 1% of their claim.
 

Poly

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Originally posted by Zakath

I think the Bible is diverse enough for people to take out of it pretty much what they will.
People distorting it is no excuse for man to throw it all out. Smart ones like you should be able to see past the twisting of it by men to fit their personal gain, right? ;)
 

ThePhy

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Is more than 30,000 OK?

Is more than 30,000 OK?

From One Eyed Jack:
I'd like to see a list of 30,000 different Christian denominations. Actually, I'd settle for a list of 300. I want to see if the people that keep saying this can support just 1% of their claim.
How about 113%? Go to this site where you can order a Christian Encyclopedia detailing 33,800 Christian denominations.
 

One Eyed Jack

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Re: Is more than 30,000 OK?

Re: Is more than 30,000 OK?

Originally posted by ThePhy
How about 113%?

I'll have to see it to believe it. I wouldn't be surprised if it counts Jehova's Witnesses, Mormons, Universalists, and even Moonies as Christian denominations.

Go to this site where you can order a Christian Encyclopedia detailing 33,800 Christian denominations.

I have a better idea. Why don't you order it? Then you can use it to prove your claim.
 
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