Well, as I've said I'm agnostic about whether there was an actual historic Jesus since the only evidence is in the Bible, written by anonymous authors decades after the period. But many take it on faith and I suppose the same could be said for the shroud. The evidence just isn't good enough so I, like many, am sceptical. Most likely a hoax.
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Dear Hedshaker,
Darwin was written about decades after he lived, wasn't he? Same with Jesus! Also, don't dismiss the Shroud just yet. I did watch the video. All of it, I already knew. The flash of energy or light happened when God put His Spirit back into the dead body of Jesus. As far as inconsistencies with dating, like I said earlier, I think we need more reliable methods to test things. Just like you saying the Earth was old, but the Universe was older, etc. The guy in the video you posted (How Old Is The Earth/Fraser Cain) said that the Universe AND the Earth were
BOTH dated at 4.54 Billion Years Old. So the Earth is not older than the Universe, unless someone in Science is making a mistake again. I know we all make mistakes, so I'm quite easily able to dismiss that.
Science doesn't profess to be perfect. It's open to abuse and error like anything else. It can be messy and get things wrong. But the beauty of it is its willingness to admit its error and fraud given that it's science itself that bends over backward to correct itself. That's what peer review is all about. When a fraudulent claim in science is made it is always the science community that exposes it, not creationists and religionists. But even in view of all that it's still, by far, the most successful endeavour in human history at searching for truth.
You see Hedshaker, I see the creationists and religious admitting when they are wrong. Just like those who thought the Shroud was in Jesus' time, and the scientists said the Shroud was not old enough, the religious did not disagree with the scientists altogether. It could be a fake. We also saw that Jim Jones and Dave Koresh were misleading Christians and they ended up killing the Christians they were misleading. Religious people did not side with either of them, but instead sided with the law.
All the evidence points to a very old Earth of Billions of years, and what's more, the universe is many billions of years older than that and started from a, so called, Big Bang. All genuine scientists and cosmologists accept that as the clearest explanation that best fits the evidence. But if you don't like that then you should be looking for an alternative method for discovering how it did happen. Ancient creation myths from holy books are never going to be taken seriously any more than a flat Earth will.
You are of course free to believe what ever you like. Question is, do you want to know or get close to the truth? We may never know the exact truth but I reckon the closest we can come is through science. Beginning your search from an immovable cherished belief is to be close minded.
Like I said, the guy's video that you posted here said the Earth and the Universe were the same age. But you are saying the Universe is older than the Earth. Two opposing positions. It happens. I've been there too.
You would gain much respect from me (and others I'm sure) if you would at least take an open minded look into it. You don't have to give up your Christian beliefs and you might just learn something interesting.
You have absolutely no evidence for any of that so it can be safely dismissed without evidence. There is no point in making claim after claim without presenting hard evidence to back up those claims.
Your internet is there because of the hard work, dedication and innovation of all those pioneers that have developed the digital revolution we are all enjoying today. If you think your God had anything at all to do with it then show me the evidence because, as you should know by now, I am not susceptible to Jedi mind tricks.
There would be no ability or power of man to make certain dynamic luxuries, like the internet and computers, and radios, telephones, electric or neon lights, etc. without God speaking how to accomplish it into their minds, helping them muddle through mistake after mistake, until they got it right. Of course, I give kudos to those persons who 'made' the 'inventions', but they didn't happen except from ability and power given them up above.
Give credit where it's due Michael. All of the most outstanding innovations we enjoy today have originated from those among us willing to go that extra mile to achieve something special and there is no evidence to suggest otherwise. Give them the credit, they deserve it .
Science is not something one believes or disbelieves in. It is a time honoured process and a highly efficient and successful one. Anyone can examine evidence and test scientific theories if they are prepared to do the study and the work first. The method takes nothing on faith and it dismisses anything that cannot be falsified, like supernatural claims. That's exactly how it is and it works better than any other to date. Mysticism, faith, religion, revelation etc etc have had their day and have failed massively.
Faith is believing in something you can't see or something that has not happened yet. I believe and many with me also, indeed. Almost as many as the years old of the Universe as the believers in the Christian Bible. In other words, you still must give faith a bit more time to blossom, for it's when you decide to toss it out, that's when it happens. Faith and revelation have hardly 'massively failed.' Though it has been tainted, just like Science has. Well, Buddy, I believe that you believe in what you trust. On the other hand, though 150 years is something, the Bible has been shown to be true in many excavations. Also, the Dead Sea is saturated with salt, just like Lot's wife was turned to salt because she turned and looked as the city was being bombarded by brimstone, etc. That was the end of Sodom and Gomorrah. Also, I do consider our sparring as a debate instead of anything more, I have to tell you that I'm with you if you don't believe in Him yet. But what's there to lose if you believe in Jesus? Not one dang thing. But what happens when you don't. You don't want me to say.
Well, holy books and religion has had thousands of years to come up with answers and they remain wanting. Progress and advancements in all sorts of fields through science, on the other hand, in just the past 150 years speaks for it self.
I know what I trust :up:
Hey, Hedshaker, I got a smokin' deal on a 12-string guitar capo for $24. It is the best one I've ever had. It's really nice. It took man some thinking (from the Lord) to form this capo into one that is a better achiever than it's predecessors. Cool eh?? Love You Much, Bro'!!
Michael
