Correct Interpretation of Romans 8:29, 30.

[Robert Pate]

Scripture does not contradict scripture. Nor does scripture contradict the Gospel. The Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ interprets the whole Bible. It is because of that we should interpret everything in the light of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the first born among many brethern" Romans 8:29.

"Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called, and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified" Romans 8:30.

The Calvinist interpretation of these scriptures is not according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:29, "For whom he did foreknow" does not mean that they are individuals. God foreknew that many would believe on his Son Jesus Christ. God foreknew that there would be a church of believing Christians. It was God's plan that these believing Christians would be indwelt with the Holy Spirit and would be conformed to the image of his Son. Calvinist are guilty of individualizing everything in the Bible. In Matthew 22:2-14. The king tells his servants to go out and gather anyone, everyone, whether they be good or bad and invite them to his Son's wedding. So it is with the Gospel. All are invited to hear and believe. Not just some certain persons.

Romans 8:30, "whom he did predestinate". again, it does not mean individuals. Those that heard the Gospel and believed the Gospel were predestinated to be saved. Just like the 8,000 Jews that heard Peter's Gospel on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4. They heard, they believed and they were saved. Paul wrote, "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17. Which is the Gospel. There is no salvation for anyone outside of the Gospel, Calvinist want us to believe that predestination overrides the Gospel. Nothing overrides the Gospel. We are all called to hear and believe what Christ has done to save us.

 

[fishrovmen]

Scripture does not contradict scripture. Nor does scripture contradict the Gospel. The Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ interprets the whole Bible. It is because of that we should interpret everything in the light of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the first born among many brethern" Romans 8:29.

"Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called, and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified" Romans 8:30.

The Calvinist interpretation of these scriptures is not according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:29, "For whom he did foreknow" does not mean that they are individuals. God foreknew that many would believe on his Son Jesus Christ. God foreknew that there would be a church of believing Christians. It was God's plan that these believing Christians would be indwelt with the Holy Spirit and would be conformed to the image of his Son. Calvinist are guilty of individualizing everything in the Bible. In Matthew 22:2-14. The king tells his servants to go out and gather anyone, everyone, whether they be good or bad and invite them to his Son's wedding. So it is with the Gospel. All are invited to hear and believe. Not just some certain persons.

Romans 8:30, "whom he did predestinate". again, it does not mean individuals. Those that heard the Gospel and believed the Gospel were predestinated to be saved. Just like the 8,000 Jews that heard Peter's Gospel on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4. They heard, they believed and they were saved. Paul wrote, "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17. Which is the Gospel. There is no salvation for anyone outside of the Gospel, Calvinist want us to believe that predestination overrides the Gospel. Nothing overrides the Gospel. We are all called to hear and believe what Christ has done to save us.

So to summarize:
The Holy Spirit only indwells groups of people, not individuals. And when you proclaim the Gospel, if there are any individuals around, ask them to temporarily join a nearby group of people, or maybe have them wait for others to show up, even if it takes awhile, because the Gospel isn't for individuals, only groups.
Those must have been some very large sized wedding garments in Matthew 22, that they could cover several people! No wonder the King could spot the individual who didn't have one on.

 

[Robert Pate]

So to summarize:
The Holy Spirit only indwells groups of people, not individuals. And when you proclaim the Gospel, if there are any individuals around, ask them to temporarily join a nearby group of people, or maybe have them wait for others to show up, even if it takes awhile, because the Gospel isn't for individuals, only groups.
Those must have been some very large sized wedding garments in Matthew 22, that they could cover several people! No wonder the King could spot the individual who didn't have one on.

Everything that God does he does corporately. He is no respector of persons. This is how he provides salvation for everyone, Hebrews 2:9 and not for for just some.

Unless you as an individual call on Christ to save you from your sins, you will perish.

By the way, you are without a wedding garment, which is the righteousness of Christ.

 

[fishrovmen]

Everything that God does he does corporately. He is no respector of persons. This is how he provides salvation for everyone, Hebrews 2:9 and not for for just some.

Unless you as an individual call on Christ to save you from your sins, you will perish.

By the way, you are without a wedding garment, which is the righteousness of Christ.

Did He save you corporately when you were watching Billy Graham in that hotel room?

 

[Robert Pate]

Did He save you corporately when you were watching Billy Graham in that hotel room?

Salvation was provided for me from the foundation of the world, Revelation 13:8.

I heard, I believed, and I was born again by the word of God, 1 Peter 1:23.

 

[fishrovmen]

Salvation was provided for me from the foundation of the world, Revelation 13:8.

I heard, I believed, and I was born again by the word of God, 1 Peter 1:23.

Who else was saved with you in that hotel room?
You said in a previous post that everything God does, He does corporately.

 

[Robert Pate]

Who else was saved with you in that hotel room?
You said in a previous post that everything God does, He does corporately.

Salvation has been provided for EVERYONE, Hebrews 2:9.

It is offered to everyone as a free gift from God, Romans 5:15-18.

All that one has to do is call on Christ to save them, Romans 10:13.

Chances are you don't want to do that, instead you want to be predestinated.

 

[fishrovmen]

Salvation has been provided for EVERYONE, Hebrews 2:9.

It is offered to everyone as a free gift from God, Romans 5:15-18.

All that one has to do is call on Christ to save them, Romans 10:13.

Chances are you don't want to do that, instead you want to be predestinated.

I didnt ask if salvation was provided for everyone, I didnt ask ifsalvation is a free gift, I didnt ask if people need to call on Christ to save them and I already called on Christ to save me years ago.
Now, are you going to answer the question that I DID ask?

 

[Bright Raven]

Salvation has been provided for EVERYONE, Hebrews 2:9.

It is offered to everyone as a free gift from God, Romans 5:15-18.

All that one has to do is call on Christ to save them, Romans 10:13.

Chances are you don't want to do that, instead you want to be predestinated.

Gotquestions.org

Question: "Calvinism vs. Arminianism - which view is correct?"

Answer: Calvinism and Arminianism are two systems of theology that attempt to explain the relationship between God's sovereignty and man's responsibility in the matter of salvation. Calvinism is named for John Calvin, a French theologian who lived from 1509-1564. Arminianism is named for Jacobus Arminius, a Dutch theologian who lived from 1560-1609.

Both systems can be summarized with five points. Calvinism holds to the total depravity of man while Arminianism holds to partial depravity. Calvinism’s doctrine of total depravity states that every aspect of humanity is corrupted by sin; therefore, human beings are unable to come to God on their own accord. Partial depravity states that every aspect of humanity is tainted by sin, but not to the extent that human beings are unable to place faith in God of their own accord. Note: classical Arminianism rejects “partial depravity” and holds a view very close to Calvinistic “total depravity” (although the extent and meaning of that depravity are debated in Arminian circles). In general, Arminians believe there is an “intermediate” state between total depravity and salvation. In this state, made possible by prevenient grace, the sinner is being drawn to Christ and has the God-given ability to choose salvation.

Calvinism includes the belief that election is unconditional, while Arminianism believes in conditional election. Unconditional election is the view that God elects individuals to salvation based entirely on His will, not on anything inherently worthy in the individual. Conditional election states that God elects individuals to salvation based on His foreknowledge of who will believe in Christ unto salvation, thereby on the condition that the individual chooses God.

Calvinism sees the atonement as limited, while Arminianism sees it as unlimited. This is the most controversial of the five points. Limited atonement is the belief that Jesus only died for the elect. Unlimited atonement is the belief that Jesus died for all, but that His death is not effectual until a person receives Him by faith.

Calvinism includes the belief that God’s grace is irresistible, while Arminianism says that an individual can resist the grace of God. Irresistible grace argues that when God calls a person to salvation, that person will inevitably come to salvation. Resistible grace states that God calls all to salvation, but that many people resist and reject this call.

Calvinism holds to perseverance of the saints while Arminianism holds to conditional salvation. Perseverance of the saints refers to the concept that a person who is elected by God will persevere in faith and will not permanently deny Christ or turn away from Him. Conditional salvation is the view that a believer in Christ can, of his/her own free will, turn away from Christ and thereby lose salvation. Note - many Arminians deny "conditional salvation" and instead hold to "eternal security."

So, in the Calvinism vs. Arminianism debate, who is correct? It is interesting to note that in the diversity of the body of Christ, there are all sorts of mixtures of Calvinism and Arminianism. There are five-point Calvinists and five-point Arminians, and at the same time three-point Calvinists and two-point Arminians. Many believers arrive at some sort of mixture of the two views. Ultimately, it is our view that both systems fail in that they attempt to explain the unexplainable. Human beings are incapable of fully grasping a concept such as this. Yes, God is absolutely sovereign and knows all. Yes, human beings are called to make a genuine decision to place faith in Christ unto salvation. These two facts seem contradictory to us, but in the mind of God they make perfect sense.

 

[Robert Pate]

Gotquestions.org

Question: "Calvinism vs. Arminianism - which view is correct?"

Answer: Calvinism and Arminianism are two systems of theology that attempt to explain the relationship between God's sovereignty and man's responsibility in the matter of salvation. Calvinism is named for John Calvin, a French theologian who lived from 1509-1564. Arminianism is named for Jacobus Arminius, a Dutch theologian who lived from 1560-1609.

Both systems can be summarized with five points. Calvinism holds to the total depravity of man while Arminianism holds to partial depravity. Calvinism’s doctrine of total depravity states that every aspect of humanity is corrupted by sin; therefore, human beings are unable to come to God on their own accord. Partial depravity states that every aspect of humanity is tainted by sin, but not to the extent that human beings are unable to place faith in God of their own accord. Note: classical Arminianism rejects “partial depravity” and holds a view very close to Calvinistic “total depravity” (although the extent and meaning of that depravity are debated in Arminian circles). In general, Arminians believe there is an “intermediate” state between total depravity and salvation. In this state, made possible by prevenient grace, the sinner is being drawn to Christ and has the God-given ability to choose salvation.

Calvinism includes the belief that election is unconditional, while Arminianism believes in conditional election. Unconditional election is the view that God elects individuals to salvation based entirely on His will, not on anything inherently worthy in the individual. Conditional election states that God elects individuals to salvation based on His foreknowledge of who will believe in Christ unto salvation, thereby on the condition that the individual chooses God.

Calvinism sees the atonement as limited, while Arminianism sees it as unlimited. This is the most controversial of the five points. Limited atonement is the belief that Jesus only died for the elect. Unlimited atonement is the belief that Jesus died for all, but that His death is not effectual until a person receives Him by faith.

Calvinism includes the belief that God’s grace is irresistible, while Arminianism says that an individual can resist the grace of God. Irresistible grace argues that when God calls a person to salvation, that person will inevitably come to salvation. Resistible grace states that God calls all to salvation, but that many people resist and reject this call.

Calvinism holds to perseverance of the saints while Arminianism holds to conditional salvation. Perseverance of the saints refers to the concept that a person who is elected by God will persevere in faith and will not permanently deny Christ or turn away from Him. Conditional salvation is the view that a believer in Christ can, of his/her own free will, turn away from Christ and thereby lose salvation. Note - many Arminians deny "conditional salvation" and instead hold to "eternal security."

So, in the Calvinism vs. Arminianism debate, who is correct? It is interesting to note that in the diversity of the body of Christ, there are all sorts of mixtures of Calvinism and Arminianism. There are five-point Calvinists and five-point Arminians, and at the same time three-point Calvinists and two-point Arminians. Many believers arrive at some sort of mixture of the two views. Ultimately, it is our view that both systems fail in that they attempt to explain the unexplainable. Human beings are incapable of fully grasping a concept such as this. Yes, God is absolutely sovereign and knows all. Yes, human beings are called to make a genuine decision to place faith in Christ unto salvation. These two facts seem contradictory to us, but in the mind of God they make perfect sense.

You covered that very well.

I am neither a Calvinist, nor am I an Arminian, I do not like labels. I am a Gospel believing Christian. I believe that God has provided salvation for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. And that by child like faith in Christ and his Gospel I have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. And that in the judgment I will stand before God "In Christ" as perfect and complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

 

[Robert Pate]

I didnt ask if salvation was provided for everyone, I didnt ask ifsalvation is a free gift, I didnt ask if people need to call on Christ to save them and I already called on Christ to save me years ago.
Now, are you going to answer the question that I DID ask?

I was not in a hotel room. I was at home with my wife on a Sunday afternoon in 1969. I turned on the TV and all that I heard was, "But that thy blood was shed for me" It was Billy Graham giving the alter call. The Holy Spirit fell on me like a ton of bricks and I was convicted of my need for Christ. It was very traumatic because I had been under conviction for some time. I was alone, My wife was in the kitchen. I have not been the same since then.