COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 ARE YOU BEING TOLD THE TRUTH?

[3rdAngel]

The Sabbath was meant to be a day rest for all. The Jew, servants, animals. But, there were people as today that were need to work. The temple was quite a busy pace on the sabbath. Today we need the police, fire fighters, power plant workers, etc to keep us safe. Alot of the other outer rules of the OT were meant to show other nations that the Jews were a special people in what they ate, wore, circumcision, etc. Those are outer rules not commandments of the heart which later prophets complained to the people about and Jesus.

"And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27).

"If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath, so that the law of Moses should not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made a man completely well on the Sabbath?" (John 7:23).

Good post Brad. I think that was one of the main things JESUS came to teach about the 4th commandment Sabbath and that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath day. In the days of Jesus the religious teachers of the day had placed so many man made traditions around Sabbath keeping that it had become a burden to the people. It was though in their eyes MANKIND was made for the Sabbath. It was so bad in fact that these religious teachers were constantly looking for ways to accuse Jesus of breaking the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-2; 10; Mark 3:2; Luke 6:1-2).

Jesus rebuked these religious teachers by saying that the Sabbath was made for MAN and NOT MAN for the SABBATH (Mark 2:27 and that he was the CREATOR or LORD of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28) and it was LAWFUL to do GOOD on the SABBATH (Matthew 12:12)

Jesus did God's WORK on the Sabbath and so should we everyday but God's WORK is not the work we are commanded NOT to do on God's Sabbath for it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath.

Have you not read what David did, when he was hungry, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the showbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them who were with him, but only for the priests?

Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT

Exodus 20
8, Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
9, Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
10, But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

Doing GOD'S WORK is NOT what the 4th Commandment is talking about please read it.

God's 4th Commandments says we are NOT to do OUR OWN WORK. Yep NO secular business or paid work, no unnecessary domestic work, no buying and selling, shopping. This can be done on the other days of the week. God has made the SEVENTH DAY a HOLY DAY and we are to REST in HIM by FAITH in the LORD of the SABBATH. This is the 4th Commandment and one of the God's 10.

.......................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)
Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27). Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day. Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God? In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31). God is calling His people where ever they may be back to the pure Word of God and to come out from following the traditions and teachings of men that lead us away from the Word of God *JOHN 10:16; JOHN 4:23-24; REVELATION 18:1-5

God bless Brad, thanks for sharing.

 

[Lon]

Nonsense.

Great, you admit it.

]If that were true you would be able to prove your point.

Which is? You don't care about anything but your own words and prowess. You are in love with yourself. You make a lot of mistakes, in grammar, in scripture, in theology. That truly is nonsense. You like to hear yourself talk and like the strokes being a guru to some gives you. At least thats all I'm reading. You love yourself and your thoughts.

All your doing here dear friend is making empty claims without addressing anything you disagree with. Surface readers are like sifting sand going no where without God's Spirit. You cannot expext to know God's Word by not prayerfully reading what it says or by being prayerfully guided by His Spirit by claiming God's promises.

Ah, chest-thumping arrogance again. "I'm spiritual, you are not." lain: Here is how this is going to play out (again, as on other sites you've posted on): People who say 'no' you'll be a punk to, and people who say "Yes, this is what I believe" you'll love, all self-fulfilled prophecy because you can't take criticism of your ideas. I was nearly positive you'd not be able to prove your Colossians 2 point. I've seen this before, but it never stops people who love speculating and calling their speculations gospel.

You were only provided a lot of scripture in the OP.

No, I wasn't. I was provided with a lot of things "ThreeAng" thought was connected but are disjointed ideas from his own head that he thinks somehow ties altogether, and get this: simply because he thinks so. That is the extent of what you gave. You put scriptures together how YOU think they should go.
Reread it again for yourself, a LOT of 3Ang, scriptures?? A bit.

Spoiler

What do you think is the meaning of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17?

Many people pull up COLOSSIANS 2:16 in an attempt to cherry pick scripture without considering

1. THE CHAPTER CONTEXT COLOSSIANS 2:14-17
2. THE WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT OF COLOSSIANS 2:14
3. LINKING THE OLD AND NEW TO COLOSSIANS 2:14 IN ORDINANCES (dogma)
4. GREEK WORD MEANINGS IN COLOSSIANS 2:16 LINKING OLD AND NEW
5. WHAT “SABBATHS” IS COLOSSIANS 2:16 TALKING ABOUT?
6. WHAT OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES IS PAUL QUOTING IN COLOSSAINS 2:16?

In order to argue Sunday (first day of the week) is the new Christian Sabbath instead of God's seventh day sabbath which is God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments.

Sadly, exegesis means to STAY IN COLOSSIANS! You are not exegeting anything! :doh:

In the days of JESUS and the Disciples their bible was the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures so everything that we have in the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures comes from the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures. The point being made here is that much of the NEW TESTAMENT has direct links and is directly quoting OLD TESTAMENT scripture which with a prayerful study of God's Word can help us understand the meanings and context of what is being discussed in the NEW TESTAMENT which in many cases are a fulfillment of the OLD SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7.

Proof? Just 3rdAng's ideas put on paper? :think: THIS is cherry-picking. You aren't staying in Colossians.

I would like to propose a detailed evaluation of COLOSSIANS 2:14-17 (exegesis) using all of the above applied to COLOSSIANS 2 for chapter context and in particular COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 for within scripture context linking the scritures from the OLD TESTAMENT that are being discussed here by Paul in COLOSSIANS 2:16-17.

Proof-texting, cherry-picking, NOT exegesis. Can you learn? Can you be taught? Did I start on the wrong foot? What can I do to get you to stop being arrogant, stop talking, and listen (to truth) for a minute? Why does mistruth (mistakes and ignorance) look like truth to you? How can I show you that you are wrong when you won't even listen?

The reason being, many people try to simply use a single NEW TESTAMENT scripture (COLOSSIANS 2:16) which they pull out of the CHAPTER and the within SCRIPTURE CONTEXT and separate it from all the scriptures provided in God’s Word from which it is quoting to try and make it say things that it is not saying.

First, I didn't post this but used Galatians. 2nd, at LEAST the person who used this can go to something else Paul wrote (Galatians) to prove his point. Jumping to the Old Testament, on a whim (idea in your head) is called proof-texting (confirmation bias).

This is a discussion that I hope will encourage you and challenge you to dig deep into God's WORD, praying and asking JESUS to be your guide and teacher which he promises to do to all those who ask him and seek him to answer the question...

IS COLOSSIANS 2 SAYING THAT WE ARE NO LONGER TO KEEP GOD'S SABBATH?

I believe you all are my brothers and sisters and that God's people are in all churches living up to all the light that God has revealed to them. The hour is coming and now is however that God is calling his people wherever they may be OUT FROM FOLLOWING THE TEACHINGS AND TRADITIONS OF MEN back to the pure words of GOD alone. God is a Spirit and those who worship him must worship him in Spirit and in truth *JOHN 10:17; JOHN 4:23-24

This thread is to discuss what the context of Colossians 2:16-17 is discussing to determine the scripture applications. What are your thoughts?

I'd challeng YOU to learn from someone like me (not necessarily me) to learn HOW to dig deeper. It doesn't mean flitting about from passage to passage. Exegesis, specifically CANNOT do that.

Well and good, but you should be TOTALLY open to where people believe you are wrong because, "no" you did not, in fact give just scriptures. You gave "How threeang thinks scripture should be put together and then attempted to put it up there as 'thus saith the Lord!" Well if you are the lord, and you want men to follow you, I'd get it, but I'm trying to worship somebody else besides myself. You've a lot of long hard introspection work ahead of you. You are an arrogant man.

God's Words are not my words but God's.

How YOU put them together are YOUR words. When you try to make YOU unassailable, you are placing yourself above me and often above almighty God. It is delusion at the point. You make a lot of grammatical mistakes and SHOULD be listening to your betters. It doesn't mean we are always right, but you are setting yourself and your own words up on a pedestal nearly above God.

All your doing here is denying God's Word with your words.

:nono: YOUR words.

By cherry picking scripture to support an unbiblical view of the scriptures your fulfilling the very words of Peter written in 2 PETER 3:15-16. All I am asking dear friend is to prayerfully consider what is being shared here and study God's Word for yourself as if your salvation depends on it because it does.

I have to tell you this: your first 4 posts are scripture hoping all over the place (cherry-picking). You jump from idea to idea across the scriptures and don't understand exegesis. Exegesis means you stay in the text given, not jump all over the place as you've done here in thread. How can anybody 'check your work' when it is all out of your head as a bunch of disconnected scriptures all over the place? And then declare its nothing but scriptures? :nono: Look at the Potter example given last page:

Spoiler

Its a convoluted mess. It should be something as simple as this:

Isa 29:16 You turn things upside down! Shall the potter be regarded as the clay, that the thing made should say of its maker, “He did not make me”; or the thing formed say of him who formed it, “He has no understanding”?

Rom 9:20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”
Rom 9:21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?

If it isn't this simple, it means you had to put a lot of 'you' and 'your thinking' into it.

There are only two scriptures. I cannot assert that Paul had Isaiah in mind when he wrote Romans 9, but it looks like it. For me to say "Paul wrote Romans 9 with Isaiah's Potter in mind" is not 'scripture.' It is my idea of what I think/believe was in his mind.

Now pay attention, here is the difference between you and I: I not only welcome someone saying "no Paul didn't quote Isaiah" but want to also know why because MY thoughts are not unassailable. I want to grow in truth and grace, not demand another follow my rendition of it, as you've done on TOL. You are EXACTLY this arrogant.

 

[3rdAngel]

Great, you admit it.

That what your posting is nonsense? Your welcome. I only mean it in a helpful way however and show why from the scriptures. It is up to you to receive it however in order to be blessed.

Which is? You don't care about anything but your own words and prowess. You are in love with yourself. You make a lot of mistakes, in grammar, in scripture, in theology. That truly is nonsense. You like to hear yourself talk and like the strokes being a guru to some gives you. At least thats all I'm reading. You love yourself and your thoughts.

Try addressing the posts and the scripture content that disagree with you rather than making empty claims you cannot prove. I have made no mistakes in the scriptures shared or the interpretation of them. If you disagree prove it. If you cannot dear friend why make empty claim you cannot prove and deny the very word of God?

Ah, chest-thumping arrogance again. "I'm spiritual, you are not." lain: Here is how this is going to play out (again, as on other sites you've posted on): People who say 'no' you'll be a punk to, and people who say "Yes, this is what I believe" you'll love, all self-fulfilled prophecy because you can't take criticism of your ideas. I was nearly positive you'd not be able to prove your Colossians 2 point. I've seen this before, but it never stops people who love speculating and calling their speculations gospel. No, I wasn't. I was provided with a lot of things "ThreeAng" thought was connected but are disjointed ideas from his own head that he thinks somehow ties altogether, and get this: simply because he thinks so. That is the extent of what you gave. You put scriptures together how YOU think they should go.

All your doing here dear friend is making empty claims without addressing anything you disagree with. Surface readers are like sifting sand going no where without God's Spirit. You cannot expext to know God's Word by not prayerfully reading what it says or by being prayerfully guided by His Spirit by claiming God's promises. You were only provided a lot of scripture in the OP dear friend. They are God's Word not mine. What is it you disagree with and why? If do cannot show from the scriptures why it is you disagree why not prayerfully study the topic from the scriptures and seek God's guidence?

Reread it again for yourself, a LOT of 3Ang, scriptures?? A bit.

Spoiler

Sadly, exegesis means to STAY IN COLOSSIANS! You are not exegeting anything!
Proof? Just 3rdAng's ideas put on paper? :think: THIS is cherry-picking. You aren't staying in Colossians.

Spoiler

Actually the OP goes the extra mile. You would know this if you read it. Your statement above only shows you did not read all the OP did you? The OP covers exegesis of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 but looking in detail at the chapter context of COLOSSIANS 2:11-17, then the within scripture contexts of COLOSSIANS 2:14-16, Greek word meanings of "ordinance; Sabbaths (plural)", then shows what old testament scriptures COLOSSIANS 2:16 Paul is referring to to define the the context of what sabbath are being discussed in COLOSSIANS 2:16. Scripture support is provided here...

1. THE CHAPTER CONTEXT COLOSSIANS 2:11-17
2. THE WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT OF COLOSSIANS 2:14
3. LINKING THE OLD AND NEW TO COLOSSIANS 2:14 IN ORDINANCES (dogma)
4. GREEK WORD MEANINGS IN COLOSSIANS 2:16 LINKING OLD AND NEW
5. WHAT “SABBATHS” IS COLOSSIANS 2:16 TALKING ABOUT?
6. WHAT OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES IS PAUL QUOTING IN COLOSSAINS 2:16?

Proof-texting, cherry-picking, NOT exegesis. Can you learn? Can you be taught? Did I start on the wrong foot? What can I do to get you to stop being arrogant, stop talking, and listen (to truth) for a minute? Why does mistruth (mistakes and ignorance) look like truth to you? How can I show you that you are wrong when you won't even listen

Cherry picking the scriptures is something you have done in trying to quote COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 as a proof text that God's 4th commandment is abolished in isolation to context of the chapter context of COLOSSIANS 2:11-17, the within scripture contexts of COLOSSIANS 2:14-16, Greek word meanings, that proves what old testament scriptures COLOSSIANS 2:16 Paul is referring to to define the context of what sabbath are being discussed in COLOSSIANS 2:16. The OP proves your interpretation of cherry picking a single scripture in isolation of context is in error. If you disagree dear friend please address the OP proving why in your view it is in error. So far all your doing is making lots of empty allegations and claims your unable to prove from the scriptures. Does this not worry you? It should. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. JESUS says all those who knowingly follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God are not following God in MATTHEW 15:2-9. All I am hearing from you dear friend is empty name calling and claims your unable to prove from scripture.

First, I didn't post this but used Galatians. 2nd, at LEAST the person who used this can go to something else Paul wrote (Galatians) to prove his point. Jumping to the Old Testament, on a whim (idea in your head) is called proof-texting (confirmation bias).

Hmmm what?? :think:

I'd challeng YOU to learn from someone like me (not necessarily me) to learn HOW to dig deeper. It doesn't mean flitting about from passage to passage. Exegesis, specifically CANNOT do that.

I see, yet you claim to dig deeper by cherry picking a single scripture taken out of chapter and bible context while ignoring the chapter context and word definitions in isolation to the rest of the bible that determines exegesis and correct bible interpretion as shown in the OP which is an example of what it means to dig deeper? Hmm I do not think so but thanks anyway. For me only God's Word is true. All you have shown is that you cherry pick scripture and are not open to digging deeper and your only interested in surface reading in order to hold on to your opinion so you can follow your traditions that break Gods' law. I will leave that between you and God to work through as all I can see is that your putting your fingers in your ears in fulfillment of MATTHEW 13:14-15; ISAIAH 6:9-10.

Well and good, but you should be TOTALLY open to where people believe you are wrong because, "no" you did not, in fact give just scriptures. You gave "How threeang thinks scripture should be put together and then attempted to put it up there as 'thus saith the Lord!" Well if you are the lord, and you want men to follow you, I'd get it, but I'm trying to worship somebody else besides myself. You've a lot of long hard introspection work ahead of you. You are an arrogant man. How YOU put them together are YOUR words. When you try to make YOU unassailable, you are placing yourself above me and often above almighty God. It is delusion at the point. You make a lot of grammatical mistakes and SHOULD be listening to your betters. It doesn't mean we are always right, but you are setting yourself and your own words up on a pedestal nearly above God.

Zzzz ok prove your claims dear friend. If you cannot all I am hearing are more empty words and nasty accusation so we will have to agree to disagree.

I have to tell you this: your first 4 posts are scripture hoping all over the place (cherry-picking). You jump from idea to idea across the scriptures and don't understand exegesis. Exegesis means you stay in the text given, not jump all over the place as you've done here in thread. How can anybody 'check your work' when it is all out of your head as a bunch of disconnected scriptures all over the place? And then declare its nothing but scriptures? Look at the Potter example given last page: There are only two scriptures. I cannot assert that Paul had Isaiah in mind when he wrote Romans 9, but it looks like it. For me to say "Paul wrote Romans 9 with Isaiah's Potter in mind" is not 'scripture.' It is my idea of what I think/believe was in his mind. Now pay attention, here is the difference between you and I: I not only welcome someone saying "no Paul didn't quote Isaiah" but want to also know why because MY thoughts are not unassailable. I want to grow in truth and grace, not demand another follow my rendition of it, as you've done on TOL. You are EXACTLY this arrogant.

Nonsense. Your just repeating yourself again without addressing anything in the OP and showing you have not even read the OP. The OP goes the extra mile. You would know this if you read it. Your statement above only shows you did not read the OP did you? The OP covers exegesis of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 but looking in detail at the chapter context of COLOSSIANS 2:11-17, then the within scripture contexts of COLOSSIANS 2:14-16, Greek word meanings of "ordinance; Sabbaths (plural)", then shows what old testament scriptures COLOSSIANS 2:16 Paul is referring to to define the the context of what sabbath are being discussed in COLOSSIANS 2:16. All you have posted is that you do not agree but your not able to show why. Does this not worry you? It should. Let me know when you want to discuss the OP and address it. All your providing is your opinion that disagrees with Gods' Word. To me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. Those who knowingly deny God's Word when they have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word and break his commandments according to the scriptures are not following God and neither do they know him *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:6-9; MATTHEW 7:13-27; HEBREWS 10:26-31. Those who reject Gods Word reject God and God will reject them according to the scriptures *MATTHEW 7:13-27.

May you receive Gods' Word and be blessed. Ignoring them does not make them disappear.

 

[Lon]

That what your posting is nonsense? Your welcome. I only mean it in a helpful way however and show why from the scriptures. It is up to you to receive it however in order to be blessed.




Try addressing the posts and the scripture content that disagree with you rather than making empty claims you cannot prove. I have made no mistakes in the scriptures shared or the interpretation of them. If you disagree prove it. If you cannot dear friend why make empty claim you cannot prove and deny the very word of God?

They DON'T disagree with me. YOU disagree with me. Is that a bad thing to admit? :think:

All your doing here dear friend is making empty claims without addressing anything you disagree with. Surface readers are like sifting sand going no where without God's Spirit. You cannot expext to know God's Word by not prayerfully reading what it says or by being prayerfully guided by His Spirit by claiming God's promises. You were only provided a lot of scripture in the OP dear friend. They are God's Word not mine. What is it you disagree with and why? If do cannot show from the scriptures why it is you disagree why not prayerfully study the topic from the scriptures and seek God's guidence?

YOU are a surface reader. There is NO special pleading. We could all 'claim' to be blessed by God in understanding. Scripture says to STUDY to show yourself an approved workman (means it is up to people like me to check your work). Scripture says to share all good things with your teacher. You? You said you did this all by yourself. Scripture says, though it costs all you have, getting understanding. I had some kids ask to lead worship. I found out quickly they lied about knowing how to play piano and sing. They could do neither and I told them I could not let them do this to a congregation that expected discipline behind offering. I said "no."

Just because someone thinks they can do something, especially without the education or experience to back it up, we (collectively) don't listen to them. Prowess proves itself, it needs no assertion, nor does the Word of God.

Actually the OP goes the extra mile. You would know this if you read it. Your statement above only shows you did not read all the OP did you? The OP covers exegesis of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 but looking in detail at the chapter context of COLOSSIANS 2:11-17, then the within scripture contexts of COLOSSIANS 2:14-16, Greek word meanings of "ordinance; Sabbaths (plural)", then shows what old testament scriptures COLOSSIANS 2:16 Paul is referring to to define the the context of what sabbath are being discussed in COLOSSIANS 2:16. Scripture support is provided here...

I did, even quoted it with comment in the spoiler. Do you know how to click on those? Need help?

Spoiler

1. THE CHAPTER CONTEXT COLOSSIANS 2:11-17
2. THE WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT OF COLOSSIANS 2:14
3. LINKING THE OLD AND NEW TO COLOSSIANS 2:14 IN ORDINANCES (dogma)
4. GREEK WORD MEANINGS IN COLOSSIANS 2:16 LINKING OLD AND NEW
5. WHAT “SABBATHS” IS COLOSSIANS 2:16 TALKING ABOUT?
6. WHAT OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES IS PAUL QUOTING IN COLOSSAINS 2:16?

Reread it again for yourself, a LOT of 3Ang, scriptures?? A bit.

Spoiler

Sadly, exegesis means to STAY IN COLOSSIANS! You are not exegeting anything! :doh:


Proof? Just 3rdAng's ideas put on paper? :think: THIS is cherry-picking. You aren't staying in Colossians.

Proof-texting, cherry-picking, NOT exegesis. Can you learn? Can you be taught? Did I start on the wrong foot? What can I do to get you to stop being arrogant, stop talking, and listen (to truth) for a minute? Why does mistruth (mistakes and ignorance) look like truth to you? How can I show you that you are wrong when you won't even listen?


First, I didn't post this but used Galatians. 2nd, at LEAST the person who used this can go to something else Paul wrote (Galatians) to prove his point. Jumping to the Old Testament, on a whim (idea in your head) is called proof-texting (confirmation bias).


I'd challeng YOU to learn from someone like me (not necessarily me) to learn HOW to dig deeper. It doesn't mean flitting about from passage to passage. Exegesis, specifically CANNOT do that.

You need to learn, what you accuse others of, :read:

Cherry picking the scriptures is something you have done in trying to quote COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 as a proof text that God's 4th commandment is abolished in isolation to context of the chapter context of COLOSSIANS 2:11-17, the within scripture contexts of COLOSSIANS 2:14-16, Greek word meanings, that proves what old testament scriptures COLOSSIANS 2:16 Paul is referring to to define the context of what sabbath are being discussed in COLOSSIANS 2:16. The OP proves your interpretation of cherry picking a single scripture in isolation of context is in error. If you disagree dear friend please address the OP proving why in your view it is in error. So far all your doing is making lots of empty allegations and claims your unable to prove from the scriptures. Does this not worry you? It should. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. JESUS says all those who knowingly follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God are not following God in MATTHEW 15:2-9. All I am hearing from you dear friend is empty name calling and claims your unable to prove from scripture.

Saying you aren't astute is a valuation, not a name. It means you are not showing you have the where-with-all in your presentations to make any difference in any online dialogue, if you cannot do it properly. We have a few of those on TOL so if that's all you want to be on here, you are headed the right direction for it. You want to teach so bad that you aren't taking time to learn.

Hmmm what?? :think:

Good! You realize now I didn't post that verse? I simply reposted it to the man that did. I rather posted a good portion of Galatians. Nice to see you paying at least a little attention.

I see, yet you claim to dig deeper by cherry picking a single scripture taken out of chapter and bible context while ignoring the chapter context and word definitions in isolation to the rest of the bible that determines exegesis and correct bible interpretion as shown in the OP which is an example of what it means to dig deeper? Hmm I do not think so but thanks anyway. For me only God's Word is true. All you have shown is that you cherry pick scripture and are not open to digging deeper and your only interested in surface reading in order to hold on to your opinion so you can follow your traditions that break Gods' law. I will leave that between you and God to work through as all I can see is that your putting your fingers in your ears in fulfillment of MATTHEW 13:14-15; ISAIAH 6:9-10.

Uh, maybe you WEREN'T and are incapable of paying attention? I didn't post the verse, I reposted two verse from it to the person but to you, I posted much of Galatians. You are making empty accusations/assertions or whatever you want to call them. How can anyone take your scripture presentation seriously if they cannot take YOU seriously? Where is your sincerity?

Just here to teach? I'm not your guy. We discuss things here, both where they are wrong, and where they are right. You think your every thought is gold and seem to think you can never be wrong (you are, but you have to listen to figure that out).

Zzzz ok prove your claims dear friend. If you cannot all I am hearing are more empty words and nasty accusation so we will have to agree to disagree.

Prove you are putting yourself up on a pedestal? Look at your 'zzzzz' it is proof enough that you cannot be corrected. What other proof is needed? Its right here in this response.

Nonsense. Your just repeating yourself again without addressing anything in the OP and showing you have not even read the OP. The OP goes the extra mile. You would know this if you read it. Your statement above only shows you did not read the OP did you? The OP covers exegesis of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 but looking in detail at the chapter context of COLOSSIANS 2:11-17, then the within scripture contexts of COLOSSIANS 2:14-16, Greek word meanings of "ordinance; Sabbaths (plural)", then shows what old testament scriptures COLOSSIANS 2:16 Paul is referring to to define the the context of what sabbath are being discussed in COLOSSIANS 2:16. All you have posted is that you do not agree but your not able to show why. Does this not worry you? It should. Let me know when you want to discuss the OP and address it. All your providing is your opinion that disagrees with Gods' Word. To me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. Those who knowingly deny God's Word when they have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word and break his commandments according to the scriptures are not following God and neither do they know him *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:6-9; MATTHEW 7:13-27; HEBREWS 10:26-31. Those who reject Gods Word reject God and God will reject them according to the scriptures *MATTHEW 7:13-27.

May you receive Gods' Word and be blessed. Ignoring them does not make them disappear.

:chuckle: "So saith the mighty prognosticator 3rdAng, thus I, 3rdAng decree!" Are you my judge now? You get to sit this one out in front of our Maker? :think: You are not taking the high road, just the 'high and mighty' one. You aren't this good, demonstrably. So stop it. Humble yourself under the mighty hand of God and in due time HE shall lift you up. Stop trying to lift yourself up. That's called arrogance, and when ignorant, it looks terrible on a body. Stop it. Start again with your better foot forward on TOL. This ain't it.

 

[3rdAngel]

They DON'T disagree with me. YOU disagree with me. Is that a bad thing to admit? :think:

YOU are a surface reader. There is NO special pleading. We could all 'claim' to be blessed by God in understanding. Scripture says to STUDY to show yourself an approved workman (means it is up to people like me to check your work). Scripture says to share all good things with your teacher. You? You said you did this all by yourself. Scripture says, though it costs all you have, getting understanding. I had some kids ask to lead worship. I found out quickly they lied about knowing how to play piano and sing. They could do neither and I told them I could not let them do this to a congregation that expected discipline behind offering. I said "no."

Just because someone thinks they can do something, especially without the education or experience to back it up, we (collectively) don't listen to them. Prowess proves itself, it needs no assertion, nor does the Word of God.


I did, even quoted it with comment in the spoiler. Do you know how to click on those? Need help?

Spoiler

You need to learn, what you accuse others of, :read:
Saying you aren't astute is a valuation, not a name. It means you are not showing you have the where-with-all in your presentations to make any difference in any online dialogue, if you cannot do it properly. We have a few of those on TOL so if that's all you want to be on here, you are headed the right direction for it. You want to teach so bad that you aren't taking time to learn.

Good! You realize now I didn't post that verse? I simply reposted it to the man that did. I rather posted a good portion of Galatians. Nice to see you paying at least a little attention.

Uh, maybe you WEREN'T and are incapable of paying attention? I didn't post the verse, I reposted two verse from it to the person but to you, I posted much of Galatians. You are making empty accusations/assertions or whatever you want to call them. How can anyone take your scripture presentation seriously if they cannot take YOU seriously? Where is your sincerity?

Just here to teach? I'm not your guy. We discuss things here, both where they are wrong, and where they are right. You think your every thought is gold and seem to think you can never be wrong (you are, but you have to listen to figure that out).

Prove you are putting yourself up on a pedestal? Look at your 'zzzzz' it is proof enough that you cannot be corrected. What other proof is needed? Its right here in this response.

:chuckle: "So saith the mighty prognosticator 3rdAng, thus I, 3rdAng decree!" Are you my judge now? You get to sit this one out in front of our Maker? :think: You are not taking the high road, just the 'high and mighty' one. You aren't this good, demonstrably. So stop it. Humble yourself under the mighty hand of God and in due time HE shall lift you up. Stop trying to lift yourself up. That's called arrogance, and when ignorant, it looks terrible on a body. Stop it. Start again with your better foot forward on TOL. This ain't it.

Goodness dear Lon, all of your name calling and false accusations are noted but these I am not interested in. Please let me know when you want to discuss the scrpitures and the OP and have a mature friendly discussion. Until then we will have to agree to disagree. Thank you for the discussion and for sharing your thoughts but for me only God's word is true and we should believe and follow them. :wave:

 

[God's Truth]

It is impossible dear GT for God's 4th commandment seventh day weekly Sabbath to be a "shadow" of anything!

Of course it can be a shadow, because it came before Jesus came. Use some reasoning skills now instead of blindly like a mantra saying what your teachers taught you

 

[3rdAngel]

Of course it can be a shadow, because it came before Jesus came. Use some reasoning skills now instead of blindly like a mantra saying what your teachers taught you

No it cannot. It is you dear friend that needs to use your reasoning skills. This is not a mantra it is called scripture and it is based on GENESIS 2:1-3 that proves that God's Sabbath is a part of the finished work of creation when there was no sin and "shadow laws".

A shadow law in the old testament scripture is a part of God's plan of salvation given for sin to help teach us about God's plan of salvation for our sins. The "shadow laws" are laws that points forward of something to come. For example circumcision is representative of a new heart to love *ROMANS 2:28-28; 1 CORINTHIANS 7:19; JESUS is represented by the passover *1 CORINTHIANS 5:7. Note they are all a part of the old covenant laws and a part of Gods plan of salvation for sin to reconcile us to God through JESUS.

The "shadow laws" were all laws given under the old covenant that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation and the work of JESUS in the heavenly Sanctuary on our behalf in the new covenant *HEBREWS 10:1-12; see also HEBREWS 7; HEBREWS 8; HEBREWS 9; COLOSSIANS 2 and EPHESIANS 2.

No please notice this point. All of these ceremonial laws and ordinances were given AFTER the SIN and FALL of mankind. These "shadow laws" are a part of the BOOK OF THE LAW OF MOSES *DEUTERONOMY 31:24-26 which is a part of the old covenant * EXODUS 24:7 which outline mankinds salvation FROM SIN. These included all the Levitical and Sanctuary ceremonial laws for remission of sins all the annual feast days. They were all prophetic in nature pointing FORWARD to the coming of JESUS and God's work for our redemption and salvation from sin.

So let's ask the question. Why can't God's seventh day Sabbath of God's 4th Commandment which is a part of God's eternal law, written with the finger of God on tables of stone be a "shadow law"?

Because it is impossible for God's 4th commandment seventh day weekly Sabbath to be a "shadow" of anything! Why? Because unlike the shadow laws and ceremonial shadow sabbaths, which are a part of the old covenant laws that foreshadow the coming of JESUS as the true lamb of God *JOHN 1:29 and true sacrifice for the sins of the whole world, and his work for our salvation in the Heavenly Sanctuary as our great high Priest and mediator for SIN; God's 4th commandment DOES NOT POINT FORWARD, IT POINTS BACKWARDS TO THE "FINISHED WORK" OF CREATION as a MEMORIAL that God created the heavens and earth. God's 4th commandment starts off "REMEMBER" meaning it is pointing "BACKWARDS" to the FINISHED WORK .

The Sabbath was made for mankind BEFORE SIN; BEFORE LAW and BEFORE ANY ISRAEL and JEWS for mankind when man walked in perfect harmony with God and spoke with God face to face and before all shadow laws where given as God's plan of salvation under the old covenant *GENESIS 2:1-3; MARK 2:27-28; EXODUS 20:8-11.

..............

Simple version.... IF THERE WAS NO SIN AND NO LAW AND MANKING IS IN PERFECT HARMONY WITH GOD AND NO SALVATION REQUIRED THEN THERE ARE NO SHADOWS LAWS as mankind would have continued to walk and talk with God face to face not needing redemption. Think it through. God's Sabbath was made before sin and before salvation and points backward to creations finished work, not forward *EXODUS 20:8-11. It's one of Gods eternal laws (10 Commandments) that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7 1 JOHN 3:4.

Hope this is helpful :wave:.

 

[God's Truth]

No it cannot. You need to use some reasoning skills. This is not a mantra it is called scripture and it is based on GENESIS 2:1-3.

A shadow law in the old testament scripture is a part of God's plan of salvation given for sin to help teach us about God's plan of salvation for our sins. The "shadow laws" are laws that points forward of something to come. For example circumcision is representative of a new heart to love *ROMANS 2:28-28; 1 CORINTHIANS 7:19; JESUS is represented by the passover *1 CORINTHIANS 5:7. Note they are all a part of the old covenant laws and a part of Gods plan of salvation for sin to reconcile us to God through JESUS.

The "shadow laws" were all laws given under the old covenant that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation and the work of JESUS in the heavenly Sanctuary on our behalf in the new covenant *HEBREWS 10:1-12; see also HEBREWS 7; HEBREWS 8; HEBREWS 9; COLOSSIANS 2 and EPHESIANS 2.

No please notice this point. All of these ceremonial laws and ordinances were given AFTER the SIN and FALL of mankind. These "shadow laws" are a part of the BOOK OF THE LAW OF MOSES *DEUTERONOMY 31:24-26 which is a part of the old covenant * EXODUS 24:7 which outline mankinds salvation FROM SIN.

So let's ask the question. Why can't God's seventh day Sabbath of God's 4th Commandment which is a part of God's eternal law, written with the finger of God on tables of stone be a "shadow law"?

Because it is impossible for God's 4th commandment seventh day weekly Sabbath to be a "shadow" of anything! Why? Because unlike the shadow laws and ceremonial shadow sabbaths, which are a part of the old covenant laws that foreshadow the coming of JESUS as the true lamb of God *JOHN 1:29 and true sacrifice for the sins of the whole world, and his work for our salvation in the Heavenly Sanctuary as our great high Priest and mediator for SIN; God's 4th commandment DOES NOT POINT FORWARD, IT POINTS BACKWARDS TO THE "FINISHED WORK" OF CREATION as a MEMORIAL that God created the heavens and earth. God's 4th commandment starts off "REMEMBER" meaning it is pointing "BACKWARDS" to the FINISHED WORK .

The Sabbath was made for mankind BEFORE SIN; BEFORE LAW and BEFORE ANY ISRAEL and JEWS for mankind when man walked in perfect harmony with God and spoke with God face to face and before all shadow laws where given as God's plan of salvation under the old covenant *GENESIS 2:1-3; MARK 2:27-28; EXODUS 20:8-11.

..............

Simple version.... IF THERE WAS NO SIN AND NO LAW THERE ARE NO SHADOWS as mankind would have continued to walk and talk with God face to face not needing redemption. Think it through.

Hope this is helpful :wave:.

A shadow comes BEFORE a person. The seventh day Sabbath came before Jesus.

 

[3rdAngel]

A shadow comes BEFORE a person. The seventh day Sabbath came before Jesus.

Hmm what? You did not read what was posted to you did you.

 

[God's Truth]

Hmm what? You did not read what was posted to you did you.

Let's take it slower? The seventh day came before Jesus. Shadows come before a person.

 

[3rdAngel]

Let's take it slower? The seventh day came before Jesus. Shadows come before a person.

Why do you need to take it slower? Read the post and the scripturs that were shared with you in post # 27. It is not a very large post. What is it you do not understand? What came first sin or the seventh day Sabbath at the end of creation? If the Sabbath it cannot be a shadow. Not very hard.

 

[God's Truth]

Why do you need to take it slower? Read the post and the scripturs that were shared with you in post # 27. It is not a very large post. What is it you do not understand? What came first sin or the seventh day Sabbath at the end of creation? If the Sabbath it cannot be a shadow. Not very hard.

The plan for JESUS to come came first, so the seventh day is a shadow. Your false teachers coined phrase about looking back to the seventh day and therrefore not a shadow is just ridiculous. I think you are started to see that.

 

[3rdAngel]

The plan for JESUS to come came first, so the seventh day is a shadow. Your false teachers coined phrase about looking back to the seventh day and therrefore not a shadow is just ridiculous. I think you are started to see that.

Nonsense. Your not listening. Your false teachers have deceived you. Think it through. There was no sin when the Sabbath was made. Jesus was already present and walking and talking with man because there was no sin and no salvation was needed *MARK 2:27-28. The 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath points backward to creation *GENESIS 2:1-3, not forward so cannot be a shadow of anything. "REMEMBER" *EXODUS 20:8 is a "MEMORIAL" of something in the past not future. Your simply choosing to close your eyes and ears to the scriptures if you cannot see this. I think you can see this though. You did not answer the question asked of you, What came first sin or the seventh day Sabbath at the end of creation? If the answer is the Sabbath as the scriptures teach it cannot be a shadow. Not very hard.

 

[God's Truth]

Nonsense. Your not listening. Your false teachers have deceived you.here was no sin when the Sabbath was made. Jesus was already present and walking and talking with man because there was no sin and no salvation was needed. The 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath points backward to creation, not forward so cannot be a shadow of anything. Your simply choosing to close your eyes and ears to the scriptures if you cannot see this. I think you can see this though. You did not answer the question asked of you, What came first sin or the seventh day Sabbath at the end of creation? If the Sabbath it cannot be a shadow. Not very hard.

Anything and everything made concerning humans and this earth---the plan for Jesus to come CAME FIRST. If you point backwards then you are pointing to a SHADOW. lol What came first is the plan for Jesus to come.

 

[3rdAngel]

Anything and everything made concerning humans and this earth---the plan for Jesus to come CAME FIRST. If you point backwards then you are pointing to a SHADOW. lol What came first is the plan for Jesus to come.

Your confused and your post makes no sense. If the shadow laws are only given after sin as a part of the old covenant laws for remission of sin and point forward to something to come, how can the Sabbath be a shadow when it points backward as a memorial of creation *EXODUS 20:8-11; GENESIS 2:1. Think it through

 

[God's Truth]

3rdAngel

Here is a tip to you to help you learn when you have entered falseness---whenever you disrespect Jesus Christ, then you are in falseness. When you put a day before Jesus and make a day before Christ, then you are in dangerous grounds.

It is the same type of disrespect that Catholics and Mormons do when they think God did not give us enough information in the Bible to guide us to salvation.

It is the same thing that people like Right Divider does when people such as himself teach that Jesus had to abort his plan and finish it at a later date.

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel

Here is a tip to you to help you learn when you have entered falseness---whenever you disrespect Jesus Christ, then you are in falseness. When you put a day before Jesus and make a day before Christ, then you are in dangerous grounds.

Now your making things up. What do you think 1 JOHN 2:3-4 and HEBREWS 10:26-27 mean? Also, do you love JESUS by not believing and following his Word or do we love JESUS by believing and doing what Gods' Word says? These are not hard questions but ones that will be helpful if you prayerfully consider them.

 

[God's Truth]

Your confused and your post makes no sense. If the shadow laws are only given after sin as a part of the old covenant laws for remission of sin and point forward to something to come, how can the Sabbath be a shadow when it points backward as a memorial of creation *EXODUS 20:8-11; GENESIS 2:1. Think it through

When you look back, you are looking at a shadow.

Even before the law----there were shadows OF CHRIST.

 

[3rdAngel]

When you look back, you are looking at a shadow.

Even before the law----there were shadows OF CHRIST.

Nonsense. Circumcision or the Passover were shadows did they point forward or backwards when they were given to God's people in the Old testament? ZZzzz ok don't answer the questions if you do not want to. I know why you do not answer them. It is because they show why your reasoning is in error. I think you know the meaning so all good.

 

[God's Truth]

Now your making things up. What do you think 1 JOHN 2:3-4 and HEBREWS 10:26-27 mean? Also, do you love JESUS by not believing and following his Word or do we love JESUS by believing and doing what Gods' Word says? These are not hard questions but ones that will be helpful if you prayerfully consider them.

Look deeper at yourself.

Were you taught by a human?

You cling to teachings of humans over what Jesus teaches.

Do you put a day over Jesus? You do, when you say the seventh day isn't a shadow of the Lord who was to come.

Repent of the teachings of men and believe and obey Jesus.