Can Biden raise the debt ceiling if Congress cannot?

marke

Well-known member
Good question. Democrats are always fighting republicans who oppose big government pork spending, and fishing for alternatives to constitutionally prescribed processes has been tried by democrats before.

This is what enterprising leftists said about Obama in 2013:


With the fiscal cliff behind us, we now must look forward to yet another budgetary battle—over the debt ceiling, in a repeat of summer 2011. Is there a way out of the endless stalemate between President Obama and Republicans in Congress? Yes, but it requires the president to assert himself more aggressively than he has so far.

The debt standoff is more ominous than the fiscal cliff because it doesn’t reflect a legitimate dispute over public policy. While reasonable people can disagree about the right level of taxation and spending, no one believes that the United States should default on its debt, not even the most ardent Tea Partiers. So holding the debt ceiling hostage is pure brinkmanship—akin to threatening to set off a nuclear bomb in Manhattan if the president fails to agree to spending cuts.

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House Republicans would probably argue that the main effect of maintaining the debt ceiling would be to force President Obama to cut spending while using tax revenues to pay interest on the debt. But cutting government programs to the degree necessary would also create a crisis— most people and institutions won’t want to do business with the government, or work for it, because they won’t trust it to do what it promises. This is a mess and a bad way to run a country. So what can be done?

One argument that has received some attention rests on an obscure provision in the 14th Amendment of the Constitution. It says that “The validity of the public debt of the United States … shall not be questioned.” Some commentators, like former President Clinton, argue that this clause authorizes the president to borrow money to meet existing obligations. But the provision does not mention the president or give him any authority. And in Article I, the Constitution gives the authority to borrow money to Congress. The 14th Amendment states an aspiration or goal, which would not normally trump a specific allocation of constitutional powers. The argument also fails on its own terms because the debt ceiling does not force the president to default on the public debt; he can avoid default by spending less.

Two law professors, Neil Buchanan and Michael Dorf, have argued that the president is actually constitutionally required to violate the debt ceiling rather than cut spending. To respect Congress’ will, he should follow its orders to spend rather than follow its orders not to borrow—the idea is that the spending power is somehow constitutionally fundamental to what Congress does, while the borrowing power is not. I say “somehow” because Buchanan and Dorf do not explain convincingly why that would be so.


This is what big-spending, constitution-avoiding democrats are saying could be done to bypass republican objections to reckless spending:


But any administration, if it were truly faced with such a calamity, would not actually be helpless. There are at least four different ways a president could nullify the debt ceiling without Congress.

None of these are free from risk, and all would likely spark considerable litigation. That litigation could in turn cause market turmoil as market actors debate the value of US debt issued under these conditions. But all would be preferable to defaulting on US debt.
 

marke

Well-known member
Good question. Democrats are always fighting republicans who oppose big government pork spending, and fishing for alternatives to constitutionally prescribed processes has been tried by democrats before.

This is what enterprising leftists said about Obama in 2013:


With the fiscal cliff behind us, we now must look forward to yet another budgetary battle—over the debt ceiling, in a repeat of summer 2011. Is there a way out of the endless stalemate between President Obama and Republicans in Congress? Yes, but it requires the president to assert himself more aggressively than he has so far.

The debt standoff is more ominous than the fiscal cliff because it doesn’t reflect a legitimate dispute over public policy. While reasonable people can disagree about the right level of taxation and spending, no one believes that the United States should default on its debt, not even the most ardent Tea Partiers. So holding the debt ceiling hostage is pure brinkmanship—akin to threatening to set off a nuclear bomb in Manhattan if the president fails to agree to spending cuts.

ADVERTISEMENT

House Republicans would probably argue that the main effect of maintaining the debt ceiling would be to force President Obama to cut spending while using tax revenues to pay interest on the debt. But cutting government programs to the degree necessary would also create a crisis— most people and institutions won’t want to do business with the government, or work for it, because they won’t trust it to do what it promises. This is a mess and a bad way to run a country. So what can be done?

One argument that has received some attention rests on an obscure provision in the 14th Amendment of the Constitution. It says that “The validity of the public debt of the United States … shall not be questioned.” Some commentators, like former President Clinton, argue that this clause authorizes the president to borrow money to meet existing obligations. But the provision does not mention the president or give him any authority. And in Article I, the Constitution gives the authority to borrow money to Congress. The 14th Amendment states an aspiration or goal, which would not normally trump a specific allocation of constitutional powers. The argument also fails on its own terms because the debt ceiling does not force the president to default on the public debt; he can avoid default by spending less.

Two law professors, Neil Buchanan and Michael Dorf, have argued that the president is actually constitutionally required to violate the debt ceiling rather than cut spending. To respect Congress’ will, he should follow its orders to spend rather than follow its orders not to borrow—the idea is that the spending power is somehow constitutionally fundamental to what Congress does, while the borrowing power is not. I say “somehow” because Buchanan and Dorf do not explain convincingly why that would be so.


This is what big-spending, constitution-avoiding democrats are saying could be done to bypass republican objections to reckless spending:


But any administration, if it were truly faced with such a calamity, would not actually be helpless. There are at least four different ways a president could nullify the debt ceiling without Congress.

None of these are free from risk, and all would likely spark considerable litigation. That litigation could in turn cause market turmoil as market actors debate the value of US debt issued under these conditions. But all would be preferable to defaulting on US debt.
What did Trump do to raise the debt ceiling against democrat opposition? Wait, democrats have never opposed raising the debt ceiling. In fact, Trump never advocated raising the debt ceiling either.
 

marke

Well-known member
Democrats pulled it off again. Republicans caved to democrat demands that the debt ceiling be raised so democrats could spend more borrowed money the American people will laboriously struggle for decades to try to pay back.


The Senate narrowly passed a short-term debt ceiling hike on Thursday, averting a default on U.S. debts until at least December when lawmakers will face a showdown on the topic again.

In a 50-to-48 vote, legislation raising the debt ceiling by $430 billion, enough to ensure the federal government can pay its bills until at least Dec. 3, cleared the Senate. It now heads to the House where Speaker Nancy Pelosi, California Democrat, is expected to take it up next week.

“This is a temporary but necessary and important fix,” said Senate Majority Leader Charles E. Schumer, a New York Democrat. “I appreciate that at the end of the day, we were able to raise the debt limit without a convoluted and unnecessary [party-line] process that until today the Republican leader claimed was the only way to address the debt limit.”
 

Gary K

New member
Banned
Democrats pulled it off again. Republicans caved to democrat demands that the debt ceiling be raised so democrats could spend more borrowed money the American people will laboriously struggle for decades to try to pay back.


The Senate narrowly passed a short-term debt ceiling hike on Thursday, averting a default on U.S. debts until at least December when lawmakers will face a showdown on the topic again.

In a 50-to-48 vote, legislation raising the debt ceiling by $430 billion, enough to ensure the federal government can pay its bills until at least Dec. 3, cleared the Senate. It now heads to the House where Speaker Nancy Pelosi, California Democrat, is expected to take it up next week.

“This is a temporary but necessary and important fix,” said Senate Majority Leader Charles E. Schumer, a New York Democrat. “I appreciate that at the end of the day, we were able to raise the debt limit without a convoluted and unnecessary [party-line] process that until today the Republican leader claimed was the only way to address the debt limit.”
What do you mean "Republicans caved"? The Republicans make up a large percentage of the swamp. No sooner than Trump was elected the Republicans joined the Democrats in forcing a large increase in spending upon Trump by passing a veto proof budget on him. Then they got together and chortled about it.

Republicans have joined in deficit spending for at least a hundred years. I'd say anyone who has been paying any attention should realize that Republicans are just as culpable for our current financial problems as Democrats are. None of them have worked to get rid of the Fed which has destroyed our currency through deliberate inflation every year after both parties of the swamp joined in voting the Fed into existence.
 

marke

Well-known member
What do you mean "Republicans caved"? The Republicans make up a large percentage of the swamp. No sooner than Trump was elected the Republicans joined the Democrats in forcing a large increase in spending upon Trump by passing a veto proof budget on him. Then they got together and chortled about it.

Republicans have joined in deficit spending for at least a hundred years. I'd say anyone who has been paying any attention should realize that Republicans are just as culpable for our current financial problems as Democrats are. None of them have worked to get rid of the Fed which has destroyed our currency through deliberate inflation every year after both parties of the swamp joined in voting the Fed into existence.
Maybe I should clarify. Republicans opposed the democrat plan to raise the debt ceiling and McConnel promised republicans would not go along with the democrat plan, until McConnell and a handful of republicans caved.
 

Gary K

New member
Banned
Maybe I should clarify. Republicans opposed the democrat plan to raise the debt ceiling and McConnel promised republicans would not go along with the democrat plan, until McConnell and a handful of republicans caved.
I won't even agree with this. Here is why.

Several years ago when the Republicans got themselves voted into power in Congress Ted Cruz stood up and started fulfilling his campaign promises. The Republican party leadership came down on him like a ton of bricks and told him he was crazy, etc.... At the same time McConnell and company said all conservatives were lunatics for opposing deficit spending. McConnell may have an R after his name but he is a socialist through and through. He's married to a Chinese woman who is closely tied to the CCP by family, and he has become wealthy through that connection. For at least a couple of decades he's pushed legislation through Congress that has clearly favored the CCP and China.

So saying he "caved" is an oxymoron. He's been bought and paid for by the Chinese for many years.
 

Gary K

New member
Banned
White House Whistleblower Claims Strangers Drag Him From Place To Place And Make Him Sign Papers And Read Words On Monitors And He Hardly Gets Any Ice Cream

 

Gary K

New member
Banned
I see someone, JudgeRightly, finally figured out who the "whistleblower" is as he's the only one who really laughed. This is the funniest piece of satire I've seen in a long, long time.
 

marke

Well-known member
I see someone, JudgeRightly, finally figured out who the "whistleblower" is as he's the only one who really laughed. This is the funniest piece of satire I've seen in a long, long time.
I laughed because I can see Biden blowing the whistle on himself in a state of confusion.
 

Gary K

New member
Banned
I laughed because I can see Biden blowing the whistle on himself in a state of confusion.
What I saw in that satire is Biden claiming to be someone else that's younger and "definitely not Joe Biden". That alone is really funny. What whistle blower ever claimed to defininetly not be a specific person? That he's being dragged from from one place to another and forced to read from a monitor is once again really funny because that's how most people view Joe. And that the worst thing of all about being dragged around and forced to do what he hates is he doesn't get enough ice cream. If he was fed more ice cream all the rest wouldn't be all that bad. The insanity of all that is hilarious.

The Babylon Bee writers even brought in Jake Tapper to poke fun at. The creativity these writers have is incredible.

This is multidimensional satire.
 

marke

Well-known member
Those who blame republicans for the unsustainable debt depression America is now in must not have been following the news for the last 20 years. Democrats have been fighting republicans for longer than that to do away with spending restraints so they can waste as many tax dollars as they can in each moment they can gain access to the vault at US Treasury. Democrats, more than republicans, are thieves and government spending to them involves rich rewards in personal gains from promoting transactions favored by their supporters who give them money to push their special interests.


Congressional Democrats are scrambling to find an easy solution to the looming deadline to raise the U.S. debt limit, even eyeing to carve out a filibuster exemption on the topic.

An aide close to Democratic leadership told The Washington Times the carve-out would allow the Senate to address the debt ceiling at a later date by a simple majority of 51-votes, rather than the customary 60-vote threshold needed to beat a filibuster. Democrats hope to include the carveout as an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), a must-pass annual defense policy bill.
 
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