BRXII Battle talk

[red77]

Dave, Jesus is called the Rock of Offense. Even though only Isaiah, a mere prophet of God, was being quoted by Peter, a mere apostle of Christ. The Truth is offensive dave. Instead of trying to cover your backside after it was exposed for mocking God, why not take this opportunity to really repent to the Creator.

So dave hasnt 'really repented' now has he not? Its not the truth thats being offensive on here....

 

[red77]

You are way off, Nineveh. You think pagans like me are put off by the "truth" that human beings are imperfect sinners. That's not true. We're put off by hateful Christians and sadistic doctrines of eternal torture.

One day that point might finally penetrate........

 

[red77]

Jesus Christ as the Rock of Offense. Sounds more like an all star wrestler.
That's interesting, but its not Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth, the Light.
No one comes to the Father except through Him. God did not send the Son to condemn
the world, but that the world may be saved through Him.

The Law is a promise of peace and justice. Scripture says Jesus came to fulfill the law,
not to enforce it.

Obediance to the law is a Pharisaic Doctrine, not Christian.

Jesus Himself used 2 different words to describe the "law" of the OT and the
"Commandments" which he provided.

Law is greek nomos, which means a regulation, or a principle.

The word used for “commandment” is the Greek “entolay,” which is also translated as prescription. Prescriptions Nin, not Penalty. Prescriptions are given to provide healing,
Nin, not punishment.

Jesus fulfilled the "regulations" by providing "prescriptions," which included loving God,
Loving neighbors, and loving enemies.

Jesus said that He demands Mercy,and not Sacrifice. Mercy and Love Nin, not Offense
and Enforcement.

Jesus warned the Pharisees about their hypocrisy in trying to control peoples lives by
threatening people and holding the gates of the Kingdom hostage through their
interpretation of the law. Sound familiar Nin? Sounds alot like ET theology. Woe
to the Pharisees and Scribes, Nin, for they place stumbling blocks before the
Children of God. Children who run in horror away from God because of the threats of
Pharisaic doctrines like ET.

I known literally dozens of people who have done just that, not just Balder. I still help
minister at a bar based Biker church, as well at a rescue mission, where people
who rejected society and God and Jesus Christ because of those very doctrines you
adhere to are now finding the comfort and peace and healing of the Holy Spirit.

These are people who were living hell here and now Nin, which I know you understand, and
are instead living the Promise here and now, experiencing the Kingdom here and now,
experiencing healing here and now.

God's going to take care of the hereafter, I have faith in that, and I have faith He will do
so in a way that carries peace, justlice, Love, and Restoration for all, just as Scripture
promises. That's the hereafter, but there are people suffering here and now Nin, people
who know plenty about "law enforcement," but need love and understanding, some
comfort, some peace, some mercy, some Grace, some Good News Nin, not threats.

Yes, God told me that Heaven is a wonderful place, with flowers and birds and trees.
He also told me that my mission, our mission, here on earth is to help alleviate
suffering, by sharing the Good News Nin, not threats of Eternal Torment.

Jesus and John the Baptist both said the "repent, for the Kingdom is at Hand." They
categorically did NOT say "Repent, for if you don't, you will suffer Eternal Torment."

Now, if we were to replace the word "Eternal" with "here and now," we would be in complete
agreement. Accept Christ Here and now, and find Peace and Love and Healing here and
now. No arguments whatsoever.

God's going to take care of Eternity. PK, Nin, Aimiel, whoever adheres to this doctrine,
that's fine, but out "in the world," keep it to yourselves. Focus on the here and now,
on the needs of the people here and now, on the suffering and torment that happens
here and now. IF we do that, and if we recognize that the doctrine of ET only serves to
drive people from Christ, then whether we believe it our selves or not, we will not share it,
because our interest, our mission, the commandment that Christ gives us, is to call
people to Christ, not to drive people from Christ.

Dave Miller

:thumb:
The suffering and torments of people on this plane are usually glossed over by the doctrine of ET i've noticed....

 

[Ecumenicist]

Dave, Jesus is called the Rock of Offense. Even though only Isaiah, a mere prophet of God, was being quoted by Peter, a mere apostle of Christ. The Truth is offensive dave. Instead of trying to cover your backside after it was exposed for mocking God, why not take this opportunity to really repent to the Creator.

God Bless you, Nin.

 

[Nineveh]

If by ignoring you you mean the four pages of 'remnant' that you'd posted then ok - I'll address it, not one of the passages negates God ultimately reconciling his entire own world that I read.....i didnt see any passages saying something about only a remnant of the world would be salvaged - although this is what your doctrine teaches, most of the passages were from the OT and had nothing to do with this topic in question.....

Blindly you carry on. Judging Christians and offering false hope to the unrepenant. If you want to know why my reply is so short, it's because I've put as much thought and energy into this dialog as you have. The only place in the Bible the majority even seeks God is in the gospel of red 6:13. "And lo, I tell you a different truth, all will be saved, even those who refuse salvation."

 

[Nineveh]

God Bless you, Nin.

He has Abundantly He has set me free from the Law. He would do the same for you, dave.

 

[Ecumenicist]

He has Abundantly He has set me free from the Law. He would do the same for you, dave.

He's set you free, and yet you hold others accountable. Charming hypocricy, Nin.
Reminds me of a couple parables I've heard about servants who receive mercy
but refuse to extend mercy to others.

Beware, Nin.

 

[Aimiel]

Before today, I hadn't yet begun to see the profound wisdom of saving those whom The Lord has chosen and refusing those who've rejected The Word of God. Red and Dave have demonstrated that no matter how much truth they're confronted with, they will always cling to their perversion of God's Word. How sad. :nono:

 

[Balder]

Before today, I hadn't yet begun to see the profound wisdom of saving those whom The Lord has chosen and refusing those who've rejected The Word of God. Red and Dave have demonstrated that no matter how much truth they're confronted with, they will always cling to their perversion of God's Word. How sad. :nono:

Hmmm, I was thinking the same about you and Nin! :chuckle: It's true what they say: people don't often choose what they believe based on sound reason, nor do they easily give up their beliefs when they are shown to be unreasonable or otherwise problematic.

 

[Aimiel]

It isn't 'sound reason' or the demonstration of unreasonableness or problems that is my God, it is The Lord. He doesn't have to give reasons for what He does, nor is He answerable to anyone. He is Truth, and has given us His Word. If you don't believe It, then you'll go to hell. It is that simple. I believe His Word because It is Truth. I don't swallow 'reason' and 'proof' that can be deceiving, but have The Truth inside of me, witnessing together with me that His Word is Truth. Those who don't have or don't understand that can't 'reason' it away or excuse themselves by saying, "Oh, I have, too," because they know in their heart that they're lying; and that is where The Lord looks, for that is where He lives: in the heart of men who are submitted to Him. Those who choose to hold onto 'portions' of His Word in un-righteousness will never see Him, except to hear Him say, "Depart from Me, I never knew you." How sad.

 

[Balder]

As a fallible human being, how do you know for certain that what you believe is the Truth? How do you know, for certain, that your interpretations of the Bible are correct? How do you know, for certain, that the Bible is "God's word" and not the writings of men? How do you know, for certain, that those whose opinion differs from yours will spend eternity in conscious, inescable torment?

 

[Nineveh]

He's set you free, and yet you hold others accountable.

Me? Hardly. See, if you take a break from mocking Paul and actually listen to him, he tells us, "...For what the Law says, it says to those under the Law..." That's a Christian's job, dave. Warning people they will be judged by the Law and found guilty, that they need Christ.

Charming hypocricy, Nin.

It's the Gospel, prophet of the birdgod. You don't even know the Gospel and call yourself by the Name of Christ, so... let's talk about hypocrisy.

Reminds me of a couple parables I've heard about servants who receive mercy
but refuse to extend mercy to others.

Much like our exercise in repentance/forgiveness, dave, one has to want forgiven of their debt. You can not force people to be sorry.

Beware, Nin.

You know? I am, and here is why: Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

 

[Aimiel]

As a fallible human being, how do you know for certain that what you believe is the Truth? How do you know, for certain, that your interpretations of the Bible are correct? How do you know, for certain, that the Bible is "God's word" and not the writings of men? How do you know, for certain, that those whose opinion differs from yours will spend eternity in conscious, inescable torment?

I have a more sure Word of Prophecy than any eyewitness account. The Holy Ghost bears witness, down on the inside of me, with my spirit, that His Word is Truth. Those who hold onto 'portions' of That Word in un-righteousness are some of the most evil men that there are. They are designed to deceive God's Very Elect, although that isn't possible. They are sent to try. Better men than what I've seen on TOL have tried much harder than what we've seen here, and have always failed. God's Truth is sure. His Presence is un-deniable, just as His absence is.

 

[Nineveh]

As a fallible human being, how do you know for certain that what you believe is the Truth? How do you know, for certain, that your interpretations of the Bible are correct? How do you know, for certain, that the Bible is "God's word" and not the writings of men? How do you know, for certain, that those whose opinion differs from yours will spend eternity in conscious, inescable torment?

How do you know it's not?

You can believe whatever you like, but let's hope at some point in the future you can come to the realization that the God of the Bible really meant what He said. Is your "all inclusion" big enough to accept that?

 

[Balder]

If he really intends to roast people alive forever, I have no interest in him.

 

[Nineveh]

If he really intends to roast people alive forever, I have no interest in him.

Nope. That wasn't His intention. Wanna know how I know? He was an innocent Man who was brutally murdered all in hopes you would accept what He did as the sacrifice that can cleanse your soul.

What an evil God, balder, One who creates everything, fixes what we destroy and saves us from the certain expulsion from His presence because of our sins. All He wants from you is your humble repentance and faith. What an ogre.

 

[Balder]

Nope. That wasn't His intention. Wanna know how I know? He was an innocent Man who was brutally murdered all in hopes you would accept what He did as the sacrifice that can cleanse your soul.

What an evil God, balder, One who creates everything, fixes what we destroy and saves us from the certain expulsion from His presence because of our sins. All He wants from you is your humble repentance and faith. What an ogre.

The story of Christ's kenotic agape is beautiful and moving. The fact that this sacrifice, according to many Christians, is set in a "larger" story, in which God plans to resurrect people into new bodies and toss them alive into a fire like so much trash, where they'll suffer and scream forever, is what I object to.

 

[red77]

Before today, I hadn't yet begun to see the profound wisdom of saving those whom The Lord has chosen and refusing those who've rejected The Word of God. Red and Dave have demonstrated that no matter how much truth they're confronted with, they will always cling to their perversion of God's Word. How sad. :nono:

truth? When did that happen? I've seen people telling me that God is incapable of subjecting his own universe to himself and cant redeem his own world if he wills it, I've seen people tell me that all things are possible for God - but not saving his own creation, i've seen the same people tell me that they dont place any limits on God or his power but that this feat would be too much for him for varying reasons......
Is that the truth you're referring to?

 

[Ecumenicist]

Me? Hardly. See, if you take a break from mocking Paul and actually listen to him, he tells us, "...For what the Law says, it says to those under the Law..." That's a Christian's job, dave. Warning people they will be judged by the Law and found guilty, that they need Christ.

A Christan's job is to lead people to Christ, to Salvation, not send them running in horror
away from God.

It's the Gospel, prophet of the birdgod. You don't even know the Gospel and call yourself by the Name of Christ, so... let's talk about hypocrisy.

I don't recall "insults" being in the list of the fruits of the Spirit. Insults and threats
are the fruits of the Pharisees. Love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, faithfulness,
self control. these are the fruits of the Spirit. You're acting like a bad tree, Nin. And
its the trees that bear thorns that will be cast into the flames, Nin. I hope, pray, and
believe in Universalism for you, Nin.

Much like our exercise in repentance/forgiveness, dave, one has to want forgiven of their debt. You can not force people to be sorry.

I think you're talking to yourself here, Nin.

[QQUOTE]
You know? I am, and here is why: Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.[/QUOTE]

And the test of the Truth of the Spirit is by the fruit it bears. Love, joy, peace, patience
kindness, gentleness, and self control. Through your threats and insults you bear none
of these attributes.

False interpretation Nin. Bears thorns instead of figs.

 

[Aimiel]

If he really intends to roast people alive forever, I have no interest in him.

T'was never His Intent. He created this earth a paradise. You're trying (once again) to blame the consequences of your own sin on The One Who gave you life. That's comparable to shooting yourself because you bumped your head, saying, "It's all your fault, you idiot!!!" :hammer:

As far as your interest, you won't have anything to worry about in that regard, except you repent, you will receive the damnation your sins have earned you; which would include banishment from His Presence. Not only will you regret your decision for eternity, but you'll even see every single soul who you dismissed as an imbecile because they offered you The Gospel as 'interesting' and even desireable, far and away above being tortured in flames for eternity. Thank God that He has hidden these things from those who are 'wise' in their own eyes and revealed them to babes. Glory to God!!! :thumb: