BRXII Battle talk

[Redfin]

If everyone goes to heaven then Jesus died for nothing.

If everyone goes to heaven, then Jesus wins 100% of "the joy that was set before Him!" :thumb:

 

[logos_x]

If everyone goes to heaven, then Jesus wins 100% of "the joy that was set before Him!" :thumb:

:thumb:

 

[red77]

Would you agree with Logos?

i'm assuming you referring to me Stipe so yes, I think Logos x summed it up in a nutshell

 

[Stripe]

Red. Do you have a response to my two questions?

Why did Jesus die?

What would happen to us all if he hadn't died?

 

[red77]

If everyone goes to heaven, then Jesus wins 100% of "the joy that was set before Him!" :thumb:

Exactly...... :up:

 

[CabinetMaker]

My biggest issue with the eternal torment model is it places a "cutoff" at physical death for everything Christ died for. Eternal torment insists upon it being the end of Grace...of Christ's ability to redeem. That just flies in the face of too much scripture to be true, especially those concerning the resurrection....and blatently against 1 Corinthians 15:12-28. If physical death is the cutoff point for salvation...then that particular passage of scripture is meaningless.

There is a cutoff. Hebrews 9:27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

There is no offer of anything but judgement. As to rendering 1 corr 15:12-28 meaningless, it would be more porper to say that it renders faulty interpretations of that passage meaningless. Have you ever noticed that when it says all in all it does not say that all will be in the same place. I can be at work, my brother can be in prison but, all in all, we are still family.

 

[red77]

Red. Do you have a response to my two questions?

Why did Jesus die?

What would happen to us all if he hadn't died?

Stipe - I'd literally just answered you moments ago, I believe that Logos x had it wrapped up in a nutshell with his answer to you

 

[Stripe]

i'm assuming you referring to me Stipe so yes, I think Logos x summed it up in a nutshell

OK Then.

Jesus saved us from sin and death.

If he hadn't died we'd be sinners and dead.

What would have happened to us after we died had Jesus not come?

 

[red77]

There is a cutoff. Hebrews 9:27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

There is no offer of anything but judgement. As to rendering 1 corr 15:12-28 meaningless, it would be more porper to say that it renders faulty interpretations of that passage meaningless. Have you ever noticed that when it says all in all it does not say that all will be in the same place. I can be at work, my brother can be in prison but, all in all, we are still family.

If God is all in all then there can hardly be a place where people are separated from him in some manner can there as many in this doctrine believe......if God is all in all then everyone will be part of "God's family"....

 

[red77]

OK Then.

Jesus saved us from sin and death.

If he hadn't died we'd be sinners and dead.

What would have happened to us after we died had Jesus not come?

Hey.....who knows? My guess is that God wouldnt have bothered with the world in the first place......

 

[Stripe]

Hey.....who knows? My guess is that God wouldnt have bothered with the world in the first place......

So you don't know what happens when you die?

 

[Stripe]

Perhaps Logos or Redfin can help you with an answer...

 

[logos_x]

So you don't know what happens when you die?

well...we wouldn't be alive. There would be no resurrection...and we would not have access to the tree of life and be enabled to put on immortality.

But...Jesus came.

 

[Stripe]

So if I read you right, Red77, it's an all or nothing proposition. If God sends Jesus then every man will believe and be saved, if Jesus didn't die then all men would be obliterated.

Last question. If my ultimate destination is certain regardless of my actions, why are my actions considered so vital?

 

[red77]

So you don't know what happens when you die?

I dont know exactly no, I have faith that I will meet my God but other than that I doubt that anyone knows 'exactly' what would happen,

 

[red77]

So if I read you right, Red77, it's an all or nothing proposition. If God sends Jesus then every man will believe and be saved, if Jesus didn't die then all men would be obliterated.

Last question. If my ultimate destination is certain regardless of my actions, why are my actions considered so vital?

Your actions should be important regardless of the outcome, if faith is only meaningful as a kind of 'get out of hell' card then its shallow, an act of kindness to another counts for very much and our actions both positive and negative impact on other people, we're still accountable for what we do in this life....

 

[Stripe]

Your actions should be important regardless of the outcome, if faith is only meaningful as a kind of 'get out of hell' card then its shallow, an act of kindness to another counts for very much and our actions both positive and negative impact on other people, we're still accountable for what we do in this life....

Another question. So we pay for our sins in heaven?

 

[Lighthouse]

So will we, Lighthouse: a glorified physical body. Jesus said to fear Him Who has the power to cast body and soul into hell, not spirit. The living spirit which Christians have isn't shared by un-believers. Their spirit is dead, because of sin.

Yes, we will. But those in hell do not. Not until before they are thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[logos_x]

There is a cutoff. Hebrews 9:27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

There is no offer of anything but judgement. As to rendering 1 corr 15:12-28 meaningless, it would be more porper to say that it renders faulty interpretations of that passage meaningless.

Indeed.. I agree wholeheartedly.

Have you ever noticed that when it says all in all it does not say that all will be in the same place. I can be at work, my brother can be in prison but, all in all, we are still family.

So...when all things are subjected to Christ...that means the vast majority will be in prison?

I disagree wholeheartedly!

 

[red77]

Another question. So we pay for our sins in heaven?

I believe that by that point everything will have been paid for, what I believe is that God knows all mens hearts and will judge accordingly, How God would do this I wouldnt presume to know