Bring back pill mills!!!!

ffreeloader

Well-known member
You literally are saying that you don't believe in all the excess deaths caused by deliberate fentanyl contamination in street drugs. No banana.
Here maybe you can find me in this video clip of New Yorkers chanting in favor of the Azov Battalion. I'm sure to be in there someplace. Right? I disagree with you on the solution to the fentanyl problem so I must be a crazed loon. Right?

 

Idolater

Ultra MAGA
Here maybe you can find me in this video clip of New Yorkers chanting in favor of the Azov Battalion. I'm sure to be in there someplace. Right? I disagree with you on the solution to the fentanyl problem so I must be a crazed loon. Right?
Again You literally are saying that you don't believe in all the excess deaths caused by deliberate fentanyl contamination in street drugs. No banana!!!!
 

Yorzhik

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
This is CRAZY

So MANY people are dying from fentanyl because they're buying street heroin that is 'laced' with (spiked, contaminated) fentanyl.

This did not happen with 'pill mill' doctors whose practices consisted of prescribing opioids liberally. People would take the safely made, factory made, pharmaceutical company made opioids, that didn't have fentanyl in it, and they would NOT die.

I used to take a hard line against drugs. Then I got a book on addiction that showed most people that try drugs stop on their own. Why? Because their crappy lives got better and drugs got in the way so they quit. Most people that tried drugs don't go on to the heavy-use dearth spiral that make the statistics, but even heavy-use cases were greatly improved by improving their life outside of the drug culture they were steeped in.

The solution isn't in making drugs illegal. Trying to make it so people can't do something is never as good as making it so people don't want to do something.
 

ffreeloader

Well-known member
Again You literally are saying that you don't believe in all the excess deaths caused by deliberate fentanyl contamination in street drugs. No banana!!!!

You have joined your socialist buddies like anna, Rusha, UN and the rest in the cancel culture campaign.. Truth has become completely irrelevant to you and all you do is repeat the same thing over and over. You can't quote me saying anything close to your allegations because I never said anything close to that.

You don't want to admit what I actually said which was trust in God for He has the ability to change the lives of addicts as that would make you really look bad so you've lit on this strategy of false accusation.

Way to go. Way to demonstrate your Christian behavior. :rolleyes:
 

PureX

Well-known member
I used to take a hard line against drugs. Then I got a book on addiction that showed most people that try drugs stop on their own. Why? Because their crappy lives got better and drugs got in the way so they quit. Most people that tried drugs don't go on to the heavy-use dearth spiral that make the statistics, but even heavy-use cases were greatly improved by improving their life outside of the drug culture they were steeped in.

The solution isn't in making drugs illegal. Trying to make it so people can't do something is never as good as making it so people don't want to do something.
I agree with all of this, but I would add that by definition, addiction refers to the point at which one loses the ability to decide to quit, and then do so. Addiction is the state in which no matter how intently one may want to quit using their 'drug of choice', they simply cannot.

People that abuse drugs and alcohol and then quit on their own when life offers them a better path were not technically addicted, or not fully addicted. True addiction will not be dissuaded or dissolved by better life options. However, the desire to overcome an addiction, and to seek help, can certainly be increased by there being better life options.
 

Idolater

Ultra MAGA
I agree with all of this, but I would add that by definition, addiction refers to the point at which one loses the ability to decide to quit, and then do so. Addiction is the state in which no matter how intently one may want to quit using their 'drug of choice', they simply cannot.

People that abuse drugs and alcohol and then quit on their own when life offers them a better path were not technically addicted, or not fully addicted. True addiction will not be dissuaded or dissolved by better life options. However, the desire to overcome an addiction, and to seek help, can certainly be increased by there being better life options.
This is too general. These things opioids latch onto you chemically, they alter your chemistry. You're not just driven to persist doing crank like how you're driven to persist eating too much, that's different, you have a chance against eating too much, you have no chance against opioid addiction. You have to solicit drug dealers, if you have no pill mill MD who can help you. You're completely at the mercy of the opioid and whoever's dispensing it, and the situation right now is that the only ones dispensing opioids are drug dealers, who are analogous to the 'rum runners' and 'moonshiners' and other criminals who made people sick during Prohibition providing them 'rot gut' liquors. But fentanyl's not like methanol, fentanyl will kill you if you look at it wrong. You have to drink methanol and then it's 'just' going to make you go blind.
 

Yorzhik

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
I agree with all of this, but I would add that by definition, addiction refers to the point at which one loses the ability to decide to quit, and then do so. Addiction is the state in which no matter how intently one may want to quit using their 'drug of choice', they simply cannot.

People that abuse drugs and alcohol and then quit on their own when life offers them a better path were not technically addicted, or not fully addicted. True addiction will not be dissuaded or dissolved by better life options. However, the desire to overcome an addiction, and to seek help, can certainly be increased by there being better life options.
The good news is that the vast majority of drugs sold are not used by the heavily addicted. So there would be a huge reduction in drug sales volume just by raising the lives of everyone in a population.

Even still, the book I read focused on the heavy users. And the success rate of improved lives was a great deal better than programs using willpower/harsh punishment.
 

Idolater

Ultra MAGA
... fentanyl will kill you if you look at it wrong. ...
As Doser said, let's say fentanyl powder blows in your face by accident.

You're dead, unless you have the Narcan antidote.
You have to drink methanol and then it's 'just' going to make you go blind.

 

PureX

Well-known member
This is too general. These things opioids latch onto you chemically, they alter your chemistry. You're not just driven to persist doing crank like how you're driven to persist eating too much, that's different, you have a chance against eating too much, you have no chance against opioid addiction. You have to solicit drug dealers, if you have no pill mill MD who can help you. You're completely at the mercy of the opioid and whoever's dispensing it, and the situation right now is that the only ones dispensing opioids are drug dealers, who are analogous to the 'rum runners' and 'moonshiners' and other criminals who made people sick during Prohibition providing them 'rot gut' liquors. But fentanyl's not like methanol, fentanyl will kill you if you look at it wrong. You have to drink methanol and then it's 'just' going to make you go blind.
What makes you assume that an addict will not seek out the more potent drugs, in spite of the dangers? Especially if they are cheaper or easier to get hold of. And if you are proposing giving them access to safer drugs, why not make them cheap and legal to prescribe for an addiction? And stop them having to resort to crime to pay for the drugs.

When I was in recovery I had a friend there that was a heroin addict. He used to load his needle to the point where it was 50/50 that he would overdose when he pushed down the plunger. He did this on purpose because he said he liked the additional excitement of knowing that he might very well die when he shot up. And that was back in the days before meth and crack. If he did that today he would surely be dead because of the manufactured additives in the drugs.

I agree that the potency and danger involved in illegal drugs is reaching catastrophic proportions. And that the addict has very little chance of surviving a drug addiction for long. I just don't see illegal 'pill mills' as a solution, for a number of reasons.
 

Yorzhik

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
What makes you assume that an addict will not seek out the more potent drugs, in spite of the dangers?
They are free to do it. But they know it's bad for them. Sure they may have a somewhat distorted view of the costs involved, but they aren't completely without a will.
 

Idolater

Ultra MAGA
Just in case I forgot to properly define my term "pill mill":


The distinctive thing about them (that makes them worth looking into), is that they are run by medical professionals, who prescribe legitimate and safe drugs, made by pharmaceutical chemical companies in regulated and carefully maintained factories.

The risk is people who wouldn't otherwise get addicted to opioids would. The benefit is that once you have an addict, they are able to easily get their fix from medical professionals who only prescribe legit, safe drugs. So the chances that they overdose is much lower than now, when many of them can only get their biochemically motivated fix from street drug dealers dealing in street drugs that are 'laced' with fatally potent fentanyl.

This proposal, the OP, isn't about reducing opioid addiction, it's about saving the lives of people who find themselves opioid addicted, however that occurred. It could very well result in more addicts, but all things considered, it would save more lives than our current situation, where 'pill mills' are hounded out of existence by police.
 

Idolater

Ultra MAGA
... This proposal, the OP, isn't about reducing opioid addiction, it's about saving the lives of people who find themselves opioid addicted, however that occurred. It could very well result in more addicts, but all things considered, it would save more lives than our current situation, where 'pill mills' are hounded out of existence by police.
 
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