Believing: Is it done BEFORE or AFTER one is in Christ?
- Thread starter Samie
- Start date
This is what Jesus said that GT REFUSES to believe:
GT insists that people who were NEVER in Christ can obey Christ BUT never gives any Bible verse saying so. If he provides any verse, the verse provided says something else.
Jesus told His disciples to remain in Him because they are already in Him. They are in Him because people are born already in Christ. Jesus Himself taught this truth in the parables of the lost sheep, lost coin and lost son. Before the sheep got lost, it was with its shepherd; before the coin was lost, it was with its owner; before the son went lost, he was with his father. So with us. We started out in life NOT lost. And to be not lost is to be in Christ.
But GT teaches diametrically against what Christ taught. He teaches that people are born in sin, and to be in Christ, people must first obey. Salvation by works. False gospel. But he doesn't care.
John 15:4-5 NIV 4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
GT insists that people who were NEVER in Christ can obey Christ BUT never gives any Bible verse saying so. If he provides any verse, the verse provided says something else.
Jesus told His disciples to remain in Him because they are already in Him. They are in Him because people are born already in Christ. Jesus Himself taught this truth in the parables of the lost sheep, lost coin and lost son. Before the sheep got lost, it was with its shepherd; before the coin was lost, it was with its owner; before the son went lost, he was with his father. So with us. We started out in life NOT lost. And to be not lost is to be in Christ.
But GT teaches diametrically against what Christ taught. He teaches that people are born in sin, and to be in Christ, people must first obey. Salvation by works. False gospel. But he doesn't care.
If one is sincerely seeking the truth and don't know Jesus, Jesus will answer to their inquiry and will know the truth. This is according to Jesus' loving character.
My reasoning is contextual.
thank you, brother.
Samie,
GT has been trying to discredit me in many ways.
She hates me mainly because I told her she is misrepresenting Jesus by being pro-military, yet claims to obey all Jesus' teachings.
Jesus does not advocate any kind of violence. He does not take side which nation is right or wrong. We will be judged individually.
the military is not Jesus' idea.
blessings.
GT has been trying to discredit me in many ways.
She hates me mainly because I told her she is misrepresenting Jesus by being pro-military, yet claims to obey all Jesus' teachings.
Jesus does not advocate any kind of violence. He does not take side which nation is right or wrong. We will be judged individually.
the military is not Jesus' idea.
blessings.
God's Truth
New member
I have explained it to you that Jesus was telling them NOT TO LEAVE HIM.
You keep changing it to no one can come to him!
Then I gave you scriptures where Jesus says to come to him who are thirsty and hungry.
Again, if people cannot obey unless they are ALREADY in him, then how are they in him and when he says 'come'? How can they come if they cannot obey?
God's Truth
New member
You are the one who does that to me you untruthful hypocrite.
I don't hate anyone I hate your lies and hypocrisy and no knowledge teaching of the Bible.
You spent many posts here damning apostle Paul and others.
Jesus says he will come as a thief in the night. Go study the Old Testament about how the thief in the night comes to take lives.
You are judged harshly for in the way you judge other---you will be judged.
Matthew 7:2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
Meshak spends a lot of time on TOL judging and condemning others, including apostle Paul, yet claims she is miss judged.
Matthew 8:8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”
10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.
Jesus did not tell the centurion to stop having soldiers.
You do not come to give blessing, you come to cause harm.
You are a hypocrite who takes the money from your husband's military service. You stay in a county who is not overtaken because other countries know we have a strong military.
The Lord rebuke you.
Because I want you to tell me how you became in Christ in the first place. And you seem not to know the reason because you cannot tell me how you are now in Christ.
Jesus said no one can come to Him unless the Father draws him. John 6:44
People are born in Christ. I have told you this for so many times. Are you reading my posts?
Again, people begin life in Christ. Christ spoke about this in the parable of the lost sheep, lost coin and lost son. Before the sheep got lost, it was with its shepherd; before the coin was lost, it was with its owner; before the son went lost, he was with his father. So with us. We begin life not lost. And to be NOT lost is to be in Christ.
But you never dared address this either.
God's Truth
New member
I have been speaking how since I came to TOL over four years ago.
I got in Christ by believing and obeying him.
I have explained that scripture too.
That scripture is about when Jesus came to earth and preached his earthly ministry.
God had cut off all the Jews He did not accept and hardened them so that only those He accepted could come to Jesus and be saved.
Then when Jesus was crucified all could come to him to be saved, but he came first to the lost sheep.
You haven't proven that. What do you think we are talking about?
Jesus tells us how to be put in him and you are not born in him until you are put in him.
Does this scripture sound familiar to you...You shall NEVER ENTER unless...?
Not quite; the lost sheep were GOD's and Jesus came and God GAVE THEM TO JESUS. They now had to go though Jesus to remain God's.
John 17:6 "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.
I am addressing everything you need to address everything.
You are confusing yourself with the lost sheep of Israel.
I hope you take more time to read what I wrote and then let's keep talking about it I want you to understand.
Satan himself was begun "in Him" got lost and yet still believes He is the son of God and the Savior...even his own...The Father is even still drawing Satan to His Son...but well
We still got something missing...
We got:
Satan 1) started in Him, 2) believes He is Son of God, 3) has faith He is the Savior even his own (could be) 4)is drawn by the Father to His Son, but what else is lacking?
Hint: it is in the could be portion...
No! It's in the "Impossible portion." What's wrong with you? Has ignorance totally overtaken your common sense?
A person NOT in Christ cannot believe:
If a person is not in Christ, he cannot bear fruit because only those in Christ can bear fruit. If a person cannot bear fruit, he cannot have faith because faith is fruit of the Spirit. If a person cannot have faith, he cannot believe because faith is needed to believe.
Of all people, GT is the only one who can believe while NOT in Christ, according to GT's own pronouncement. Not according to Scriptures, of course.
If a person is not in Christ, he cannot bear fruit because only those in Christ can bear fruit. If a person cannot bear fruit, he cannot have faith because faith is fruit of the Spirit. If a person cannot have faith, he cannot believe because faith is needed to believe.
Of all people, GT is the only one who can believe while NOT in Christ, according to GT's own pronouncement. Not according to Scriptures, of course.
There has always been a military. Read the Old Testament. Your ignorance is appalling.
It's a shame Samie doesn't know what he's talking about. He's a poor soul.
excellent insight.
Could simply means the provision and way is made available.
"Impossible!" may be be his final response to it...
No different than those who insist their own way and terms rather than repent and obey Him...His way...
God's Truth
New member
You are not being honest. I give scriptures to everything that I believe and preach.
The gospel message is the message that saves.
If all are already saved and can do nothing then they do not need a gospel.
Jesus tells us to come to him.
How are they already IN him yet he tells us to come?
You refuse to answer that.