ARGH!!! Open Theism makes me furious!!!

[elected4ever]

You can't come to him you are totally depraved he has to come to you. Isn't that your argument in a nutshell..

If you call being separated from God being depraved , then yes, but there are a great many people who's moral values are exemplary and I would not call them depraved. They are just separated from God. Man needs to understand that he is the enemy of God and are at war with Him. Man contradicts God and any and all contradiction of God is called sin. Sin is what separates man from God.

 

[Just Tom]

If you call being separated from God being depraved , then yes, but there are a great many people who's moral values are exemplary and I would not call them depraved. They are just separated from God. Man needs to understand that he is the enemy of God and are at war with Him. Man contradicts God and any and all contradiction of God is called sin. Sin is what separates man from God.

They are just separated from God.

Correct we all are. It is our will to be separate. Adam and Eve did the same..But after wards they were ashamed of what they had done. Same with us.. So now that you realize what you did was wrong [sin] you need to repent and ask for forgiveness. God made the way for you thru His Son to get back to a right relationship with him. But you have to choose Him. 'Low I stand at the door and I knock and if any man opens the door I will come in.' YOU have to open the door...

 

[elected4ever]

Correct we all are. It is our will to be separate. Adam and Eve did the same..But after wards they were ashamed of what they had done. Same with us.. So now that you realize what you did was wrong [sin] you need to repent and ask for forgiveness. God made the way for you thru His Son to get back to a right relationship with him. But you have to choose Him. 'Low I stand at the door and I knock and if any man opens the door I will come in.' YOU have to open the door...

Correction, we all were before Christ but not any more. Our identity is in Christ and not in the flesh.

The unsaved have to open the door. Christ came in to my life and shut the door behind Him. We have been together ever sense. How about you?

 

[Just Tom]

Correction, we all were before Christ but not any more. Our identity is in Christ and not in the flesh.

The unsaved have to open the door. Christ came in to my life and shut the door behind Him. We have been together ever sense. How about you?

You are correct again. Sorry wrong tense...

We have been together but I have to admit that I let my pride get in the way for awhile and I coasted.. That didn't work out to well. :kookoo:

 

[Bob Hill]

Open Theism makes me happy!!!!

Gal 6:14.15 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.

In Christ,
Bob Hill

 

[themuzicman]

OK? I gotta vent.

I try to be calm and I try to be patient with those that attribute their free will to how they were saved, but there are some times I simply can't be patient or cordial because this twisted sick, perverted ideology is sometimes too much to handle.

A so-called "Christian" friend of mine thinks when he was saved, that it was his own initiative and that God responded by saving him. He utilized his "free will" to choose God?!?!? Where in the world did he come up with this idea?

That is just plain unscriptural!

What ever happened to understanding that man is sinful? He does not seek after God. His mind is at enmity against God. No man is righteous. He was born into sin via the fall of man. He is a slave to sin.

How can one then jump from his wretchedness into complete salvation on his own?

IMPOSSIBLE! How dare one deny the power of God to have complete control of whom He chooses unto salvation. How prideful is man to think that he can take credit for his salvation?

This whole ideology of open theism/arminism/freewillism really proves man's downfallenness. It lessens God down to our puny platform of thinking. It makes God more humanistic and dilutes His power and grace.

Could you please name on OVTheologian who says that "[salvation] was his own initiative and that God responded by saving him." I don't know of any.

Muz

 

[Delmar]

Could you please name on OVTheologian who says that "[salvation] was his own initiative and that God responded by saving him." I don't know of any.

Muz

Swordsman has not posted for a year and a half.

 

[themuzicman]

Looks like Bob has been grave digging.

 

[Bob Hill]

themuzicman,

I was working in the yard, and I fell into this big hole. I thought I was dead. Then someone said themuzicman is concerned about you. You ought to quit your digging and get back into life.

So, here I am
Bob Hill

 

[drbrumley]

themuzicman,

I was working in the yard, and I fell into this big hole. I thought I was dead. Then someone said themuzicman is concerned about you. You ought to quit your digging and get back into life.

So, here I am
Bob Hill

:rotfl: Classic

 

[Bob Hill]

I believe strongly in the Open View of God.
It develops a sincere dependable character.
Since God gives the gospel to the whole world, it gives mankind the choice of Heaven or Hell.
Because we are free, we are responsible for believing or rejecting what Christ did for us.
Then, we are either freed from sin or on our way to Hell.

The application of God’s laws and concepts to our lives, gives us a wonderful security.
Since the future actions of men under the law of freedom are unknowable, there are some things God does not know, for sure, before hand. Gen 22:12 And He said, “Do not lay your hand on the lad, or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.

Even when God thinks or says something will happen, it may not under the law of freedom. “God said ‘She will return to Me!’ But she did not return” Jer 3:7 And I said, after she had done all these things, ‘Return to Me.’ But she did not return.

God is limited in His promises to bless when man does not do as He commands. Even promises that appear to be unconditional may be broken (Ex 23:27-31; 33:1,2; 34:10; Deu 7:1; Josh 1:4,5; 3:10; 15:63; 16:10; Jud 2:1-3,20-23; 3:1-4,5). God broke a promise sworn to the fathers of Israel because of disobedience (Num 14:23,30,34).

Isaiah prophesied by the word of the Lord to Hezekiah that he would die soon (2 Ki 20:1-5), but he didn’t.

Under some circumstances, God said He would not repent. The context of these passages show why (Num 23:19; 1 Sa 15:29; Psa 110:4).

When God foreknows, declares, or prophesies an event as being sure, to make sure, He makes it happen. Does foreknowledge cause things to happen (Isa 14:24; 44:28; 46:9-11; Rom 8:29)?

God “works all things according to the counsel of His will” (Eph 1:11). Does this mean all things, even outside of this context? 1 Ti 2:4; 1 Th 4:3; 5:18

In Christ,
Bob Hill

 

[elected4ever]

I believe strongly in the Open View of God.
It develops a sincere dependable character.

No it doesn't. It shows a legal and arogant charactor

Since God gives the gospel to the whole world, it gives mankind the choice of Heaven or Hell.

The gospel has been presented to the world as a witness. When men hear the gosple and the Holy Spirit has not drawn. There is no salvation.Natural man does not know God and the things of God are fooleshness to Him if the Holy Spirit does not draw that person.

Because we are free, we are responsible for believing or rejecting what Christ did for us.

Man is free to do nothing. You are ether a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness. The only choice is to respond to the witness of the Holy spirit. Salvation is not man's idea. That choice has to be given to him.

Then, we are either freed from sin or on our way to Hell.

I am not sure what you mean by this statement. Hell is not the choice for man, Heaven is a choice when presented and understanding is given by the Holy spirit.

The application of God’s laws and concepts to our lives, gives us a wonderful security.

That is rediculas. The only thing the law brings is condemnation and death to mortal man. No security there.

Since the future actions of men under the law of freedom are unknowable, there are some things God does not know, for sure, before hand. Gen 22:12 And He said, “Do not lay your hand on the lad, or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.

Poor exgesis

Even when God thinks or says something will happen, it may not under the law of freedom. “God said ‘She will return to Me!’ But she did not return” Jer 3:7 And I said, after she had done all these things, ‘Return to Me.’ But she did not return.

Bad translation. Jeremiah 3:7 And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
The word will never appears. God never said, "she will".

God is limited in His promises to bless when man does not do as He commands.

THERE IS NOT A LIMITATION ON GOD'S ABILITY TO BLESS BUT ON MAN'S REFUSEL TO ACCEPT THE AVALIBLE BLESSING

Enough already. Without your allegiance to the law and your propensity for legalism you are but an unlearned child with little understanding.

 

[elected4ever]

themuzicman,

I was working in the yard, and I fell into this big hole. I thought I was dead. Then someone said themuzicman is concerned about you. You ought to quit your digging and get back into life.

So, here I am
Bob Hill

Should have stayed in the yard and filled up the hole.

 

[Philetus]

E4e, help me out here. Honestly. Can you give me an example where the Gospel is preached and the Holy Spirit has not drawn?

Can you name one time where the Holy Spirit did not accompany the preaching of the Gospel and support your view that the choice NOT to respond didn’t exist.

Are you saying that when the Gospel is preached to the non-elect (in your view) that the Holy Spirit is simply ‘silent’?


​

 

[godrulz]

The gospel is preached persuasively as an ultimatum. God would not command men to repent and believe if it was not possible. Acts says that He commands all men everywhere to repent and believe. John 3:16 is universal in nature, not just for the 'elect'.

 

[Philetus]

The gospel is preached persuasively as an ultimatum. God would not command men to repent and believe if it was not possible. Acts says that He commands all men everywhere to repent and believe. John 3:16 is universal in nature, not just for the 'elect'.

I agree, but I don't think that will be E4e's answer.


​

 

[elected4ever]

I agree, but I don't think that will be E4e's answer.


​

Why?

 

[elected4ever]

E4e, help me out here. Honestly. Can you give me an example where the Gospel is preached and the Holy Spirit has not drawn?​

Can you deny that some hearts are hardened by the preaching of the gospel?

Can you name one time where the Holy Spirit did not accompany the preaching of the Gospel and support your view that the choice NOT to respond didn’t exist.

The receiving of the gospel is not automatic even when the Holy Spirit is present.

Are you saying that when the Gospel is preached to the non-elect (in your view) that the Holy Spirit is simply ‘silent’?

All are non elect before belief. You only become elect once the witness of the Holy Spirit is believed. not our preaching. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts of sin, of righteousness and of judgement.

 

[docrob57]

Could you please name on OVTheologian who says that "[salvation] was his own initiative and that God responded by saving him." I don't know of any.

Muz

They don't have to say it, it follows logically from the premises of your argument.

 

[cfisher]

The gospel has been presented to the world as a witness. When men hear the gosple and the Hoky Spirit has not drawn. There is no salvation.

The Hoky Spirit draws people to dance... silly pants.