Where everyone will be saying "Consent must be used! Consent must be used!"?Have fun in the lake
Are you Going to Heaven?
- Thread starter ABMF
- Start date
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Where you and the rest of satan's spawn will be separated from the Good for all eternity.
I can hardly wait.
And we'll be there because we believe as Christ does that we should do good deeds while here on earth.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Yes you will
OZOS
Well-known member
The only thing that separates anyone from eternal life is rejecting the gospel of Jesus Christ. You have and you do. Case closed.
"Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day."
YOU have not "changed your actions" sufficiently to merit salvation. No one has. Those who think they have are self-deluded and self-righteous. Anyone who claims that their sin, is "not a sin" has proven that they have never believed the gospel. Whether it's the person practicing homosexuality or the person practicing lying or the person practicing coveting.
Now that we've established that you believe that unrepentant sissy boyz WILL inherit the Kingdom of Heaven:
Are you aware that there is someone who has been recently posting in this thread that supports the libertarian concept of 'consensual morality', i.e. as long as consent is used, all things are moral? Never mind that consent can be used in many many immoral actions.
In case you don't know who I'm talking about, he's been giving you thumbs up 'likes' for your posts. Perhaps you should set him...ahem...'straight' and let him know that leading others into sin means that they'll someday be fitted for a millstone by Jesus Himself (Matthew 18:6).
OZOS
Well-known member
Never said that. You can't stop lying. In fact, I have never addressed your fantasy question even once. The reason is, because you still have never come to believe the gospel, and instead repeatedly preach a false gospel of works salvation. I'm not going to entertain your fantasies until you admit that no one is saved by their works (actions).
OZOS
Well-known member
First of all, since you are prone to lying, I don't believe you. Secondly, those who have are better off having millstones around their neck are those who teach others that they are saved by works. That is the yoke of slavery. That is the leaven of the Pharisees. That is YOUR message. YOU are the one leading others astray with your false gospel. YOU have the plank in your own eye.
Not wanting to address the evils of libertarianism and 'consensual morality', Ozos writes:
BTW: this is not true:
Ozos, the non libertarian writes:
YOU have not "changed your actions" sufficiently to merit salvation. No one has. Those who think they have are self-deluded and self-righteous.
Through the act of repentance, i.e. changing one's mind, heart and actions, the person who has accepted Christ into his life and has faith that He is their Lord and Savior, "merits salvation".
Boy, for someone who doesn't care what kind of behavior is allowed in Heaven, you sure put a lot of emphasis on good behavior (not lying) here on earth.
BTW: this is not true:
Ozos, the non libertarian writes:
YOU have not "changed your actions" sufficiently to merit salvation. No one has. Those who think they have are self-deluded and self-righteous.
Through the act of repentance, i.e. changing one's mind, heart and actions, the person who has accepted Christ into his life and has faith that He is their Lord and Savior, "merits salvation".
OZOS
Well-known member
No one will be committing any evil behavior in heaven, you freak show. I'm not sure I've ever encountered anyone as ignorant of the Bible or the gospel as you.
Blasphemy and anti-Christ heresy.
STILL not wanting to talk about the evils of libertarianism and 'consensual morality', Mr. "I am not a libertarian!" responds
aCultureWarrior said:
Boy, for someone who doesn't care what kind of behavior is allowed in Heaven, you sure put a lot of emphasis on good behavior (not lying) here on earth.
aCultureWarrior said:
"Through the act of... changing one's... actions, the person... merits salvation".
Do you have one of those computers that automatically erases the words "mind and heart", cuz I swear that I wrote those things that actions are a result of in my earlier post.
As we've discussed earlier, the sodomite, sissy boy, homosexual/child molester, etc. etc. who doesn't even take the 'act'(short for "action") of divorcing his fellow buggerite that he calls his 'husband (of 30 years mind you)', really hasn't changed his mind or heart when it comes to repenting. The same would be said of the porn shop owner who doesn't get out of the porn business or the drug dealer who doesn't quit dealing drugs.
Boy, I'd make a terrible libertarian with words like those wouldn't I?
aCultureWarrior said:
Boy, for someone who doesn't care what kind of behavior is allowed in Heaven, you sure put a lot of emphasis on good behavior (not lying) here on earth.
Of course not, they'll be turned away from the Gates because they refused to give up their sinful lifestyle because their mind and heart didn't change, even though they said the right words.
aCultureWarrior said:
"Through the act of... changing one's... actions, the person... merits salvation".
Do you have one of those computers that automatically erases the words "mind and heart", cuz I swear that I wrote those things that actions are a result of in my earlier post.
As we've discussed earlier, the sodomite, sissy boy, homosexual/child molester, etc. etc. who doesn't even take the 'act'(short for "action") of divorcing his fellow buggerite that he calls his 'husband (of 30 years mind you)', really hasn't changed his mind or heart when it comes to repenting. The same would be said of the porn shop owner who doesn't get out of the porn business or the drug dealer who doesn't quit dealing drugs.
Boy, I'd make a terrible libertarian with words like those wouldn't I?
Lon
Well-known member
1 John 2:6? Then perhaps 2 Peter 1:5-9 Or even Paul's directive to follow him as he Follows Christ. "More like Christ" is awkward, but it seems the sentiment is to grow/excel in the fruit of the Spirit.
Perhaps this was answered further in thread, but I didn't catch your response, please and thank you. -Lon
OZOS
Well-known member
Are you saying that being like Jesus is attained through behavior modification?
Being encouraged to improve or exhibit good behavior is peppered throughout the NT, but in no place does it tell us that doing so will make us "more like Jesus". The apostle Paul tells us how we are to walk...
"As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him".
We received Him, by grace through faith and that is how we walk.
Jesus walked by faith, for without faith it is impossible to please God, and God said "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased".
"Bearing fruit" has NOTHING to do with our "behavior", and EVERYTHING to do with walking by faith. The fruit of the Spirit belongs to God, and we share in the fruit as we walk in Him. Those who are in Christ HAVE the fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22). They are one spirit with Him (1 Cor 6:17). Having the fruit of the Spirit means that God is perfect towards you, and that you are perfect in Him (Heb 10:14). God LOVES you perfectly. You give Him JOY! In Him alone you have PEACE. He is PATIENT towards you. God is GOOD. He is KIND and GENTLE toward you. God is FAITHFUL even when you are not. God is not controlled by what you do, or by what you say, or by what you believe. God is SELF-CONTROLLED because of who He is, because of His unchanging character.
Religion would have us believe that the fruit of the Spirit is 9 new laws by which we examine ourselves and others according to how well we/they perform, but that is a lie. We are the benefactors, not the producers or exhibitors of His fruit. Rather we are to share Him with others that they can also know God's LOVE, PATIENCE, GOODNESS, ETC., and be partakers of the fruit with us.
Behavior modification is not Christianity. Jesus did not come to show us how to behave. He came to show us how to die, wherein we, who have been crucified with Christ, have been raised to new life, and have been MADE holy, righteous, and perfect. Paul says that we are "complete in Him". It is impossible to improve on completeness. Telling people that they should expect to behave differently and calling that the evidence of "bearing fruit" leads to self-introspection and condemnation, and has nothing to do with what it means to be in Christ.
We are to stop challenging our neighbors to be more fruity! Gal 5:26
Every single believer has already been transformed into His image, having already received everything pertaining to life and godliness, as we await the redemption of our bodies.
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Doing good deeds is a waste of effort if the sinner does not repent of his sins and go to Jesus for forgiveness and salvation.
Lon
Well-known member
Well, cart before horse if I were, so no. Rather, akin to Ephesians 2:10 and 2 Corinthians 5:17. I'm not as much 'saying' as genuinely asking. Do I have scriptural thoughts and directives in mind? Yes, but I'm genuinely interested in what you see as true here regarding sanctification. As creations, are we in a process of becoming practically? Positionally, all in Christ, we are complete. I'm not arguing or asking about that truth and I agree it is often confused. Rather, I'm asking because at times, this subject is a matter of education and re-education/correction.
Good and thank you. What is the purpose, this side of heaven, of our exibit? Is it to become all things to all people that some might be saved? Is it to participate in the blessings we already possess? Again, I've scriptural thoughts as well, but I've long prayed for an opportunity to let you know I've agreed with you, theologically, much more than you've thought I have in the past. More often than not, we see eye-to-eye on a much of our theology though I think I'm more inclusive in who is in fellowship with us.
True.
We agree here too, though such does affect our 'behavior.'
On this, I'd be a bit more clear (for my position): Salvation by faith effects your behavior because Christ has not only worked on your position, but indwells you so that 'following Paul as he follows Christ' and 'if you have seen anything good in me, practice such things' is possible this side of glory. Does it have anything to do with Salvation? Only a result of being in Christ. His Spirit does make and motivate us."
Amen!
I'd have said this almost exactly the same, again, thank you. It helps me know your good doctrine.
Could you talk to this verse for me, please? (and thank you)
1 John 2:5But if anyone keeps His word, the love of God has been truly perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him: 6Whoever claims to abide in Him must walk as Jesus walked. (appreciate it)
Agreed.
And takes one's eyes off of Him. At one time, I was that man, so really appreciate your patient explanation as well as reiteration and expiation of what others also need to read and hear. Again, sincerely, thank you.
Could you, in light of this comment, speak to this verse for me also (please and thank you): Hebrews 10:23Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful. 24And let us consider how to spur one another on to love and good deeds.
Agree. Perhaps a practical question of which I'd also appreciate scriptures if they come to mind: When I see a brother yelling at his wife, is there a place for correction or speaking toward it in his life? What is the 'practical' side, the living day to day side of my/your/their Christian life? Is all of this corrected simply by scripture education? (perhaps a bit different than the example question).
Ozos, its redundant, but I appreciate the conversation. Thank you. -Lon
OZOS
Well-known member
Great talking with you.
I am all for behavior modification, as long as it is never connected with someone thinking that it makes them "more like Jesus". I think that would make them delusional.
I also believe that everyone's behavior should be modified, whether they know Jesus or not. For the believer, behavior is associated with that which is profitable for themselves and their neighbor. I believe that the Bible instructs us to strive towards this. However, doing so, can never add or subtract from who we are in Christ. It can never make us more or less righteous.
"This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men" Titus 3:8
1 John 2:5, as I see it, is not suggesting that I should walk on water, whip religious people in a temple, etc., but that we love as He loved. And in the whole counsel of understanding what love is, and what we are equipped to do... To love God is to believe Him. To love others is to share with them God's message, so that they also might believe Him. I see no other yoke beyond that.
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OZOS
Well-known member
You seem like a solid believer, and have added some great posts to this site. And I'm not looking to make a point of contention, but could you share some verses that would support your statement that someone must "repent of his sins" to be saved?
Thanks.
I form an opinion about the necessity of turning from and to God as a necessity to be accepted of God when applying for forgiveness of sins. I believe sinners must be born again to be saved and that sinners must believe and receive the Word of God at the urging of the Holy Spirit to be saved. Many passages make up the whole of support for what I believe is a doctrine of the faith, and Luke 24:46-47 is one.
And (Jesus) said unto them, Thus it is written, that it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
OZOS
Well-known member
Okay, but I'm just asking how you arrived at the idea that someone must "repent from his sins" to be saved? I agree that people are to turn to God for salvation, but the phrase "repent from sins" is something entirely different. I think most people who hear that will think they have to do something about sin.
Like I said, my view of the doctrine of repentance is based upon the picture Scripture paints through many passages forming a logical conclusion. The rich man who came to Jesus for salvation did not receive it for one reason - he refused to give up his dependence on money or his love of money. In that he was unwilling to obey God when it came to money. Does that mean that sinners must give up their money to get saved? No. It means sinners must be willing to give up everything to get saved or they will not be granted forgiveness.
I don't believe acts of penance or procedures of repentance as human works of contrition will be judged by God as worthy of forgiveness and salvation. But nobody who refuses to give up sin, who refuses to turn away from sin, who does not demonstrate before God a desire to exchange sin for God's righteousness, and to be delivered from the pleasures of sin in his life can get saved.
Proverbs 28:13. He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but who confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.